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Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 663	Posted - 2014.03.12 12:33:00 - [1] - Quote It has been a LONG time, but a Sica did it. It owned me from way back in the redline. And all it took was two shots. One for my shields, one for the armor. I had actually forgotten that could even happen! This happened multiple times, as I'm not one to let a cheap ass redliner live. I'm really wondering why the hell I pull out a half mil tank, when I could easily kill every tank on the map with a Sica with stacked damage mods. Long Sigh I sure miss tanking. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 7340	Posted - 2014.03.12 12:41:00 - [2] - Quote 3 rail sniper tanks. I brought my Sica, double damage mods active, killed them all, and recalled. 70k ISK risked, to kill 600k. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1156	Posted - 2014.03.12 13:26:00 - [3] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: It has been a LONG time, but a Sica did it. It owned me from way back in the redline. And all it took was two shots. One for my shields, one for the armor. I had actually forgotten that could even happen! This happened multiple times, as I'm not one to let a cheap ass redliner live. I'm really wondering why the hell I pull out a half mil tank, when I could easily kill every tank on the map with a Sica with stacked damage mods. Long Sigh I sure miss tanking. you are late, welcome to HAV scrub heaven.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2023	Posted - 2014.03.12 13:27:00 - [4] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: 3 rail sniper tanks. I brought my Sica, double damage mods active, killed them all, and recalled. 70k ISK risked, to kill 600k. I like my dual tanked rail sica. It can go toe to toe with proto tanks hands down. But I like sneaking up on tanks better nothing says screw you more than cutting through your hardeners like butter. For the Federation!
Altina McAlterson Pure Innocence. EoN. 921	Posted - 2014.03.12 13:38:00 - [5] - Quote It's handy for countering redline tank spam but also kind of ****** to everyone who actually tanks. Sometimes I perma run hardeners on a gunloggi and even then I've gotten demolished from time to time. Even if I ran two hardeners at once it'd only be 10% more resistance so at the moment damage mods on vehicles are pretty much ass. I've been saying it from the start and I'll keep saying it. Running a blaster tank in ambush is like bringing Anthrax to a pillow fight.
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 586	Posted - 2014.03.12 13:44:00 - [6] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: I'm really wondering why the hell I pull out a half mil tank, when I could easily kill every tank on the map with a Sica with stacked damage mods. Me too. Instead of whining about it, call in double damage mod Sicas, play with them for a while, then report back on your experience. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 665	Posted - 2014.03.12 13:44:00 - [7] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: It has been a LONG time, but a Sica did it. It owned me from way back in the redline. And all it took was two shots. One for my shields, one for the armor. I had actually forgotten that could even happen! This happened multiple times, as I'm not one to let a cheap ass redliner live. I'm really wondering why the hell I pull out a half mil tank, when I could easily kill every tank on the map with a Sica with stacked damage mods. Long Sigh I sure miss tanking. you are late, welcome to HAV scrub heaven. Naw, just so used to blowing them up, I forget how powerful they are. I hate to say it, but for SP invested tankers, a MLT tank is pretty much the way to go! Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 586	Posted - 2014.03.12 13:52:00 - [8] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: Even if I ran two hardeners at once it'd only be 10% more resistance so at the moment damage mods on vehicles are pretty much ass. I've been saying it from the start and I'll keep saying it. What exactly is it you're saying? Even running two hardeners, you don't get much more resists, so damage mods suck. I'm not following that correctly, I think. If your post is correct, and you're talking about a second (presumably shield, since you mentioned Gunnlogis) hardener only giving you 10% more resists, you're wrong. The first shield hardener takes your resists to 60%. The second is 60% from the first hardener plus 60% of the remainder, which is 24%. That makes the second hardener give you a resist of 84%. Accounting for stacking penalties (if the values are identical to EVE), the second hardener actually gives you a resist of 52.2%, making your final resists with two hardeners come out to 81%, rounded up. If you activate a damage mod and I activate a shield or armor hardener, the net effect will always be you doing less damage to me. The only issue is that if you're activating a damage mod, you're generally shooting first, i.e. before I can activate my hardener. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Henrietta Unknown Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors 31	Posted - 2014.03.12 14:15:00 - [9] - Quote On really? I was demolished from halfway across the map in 2 rapid shots for rail sniping. Turns out it was particle cannon. I didn't even make a dent. That's why I gave up counter tanking.
C Saunders Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 532	Posted - 2014.03.12 14:18:00 - [10] - Quote If it wasnt for MLT rail tanks, madrugers and gunnlogis would be everywhere. // Fully Speced Mass Driver Expert // Closed Beta Vet // Tech Guards Sexy Beast //

Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 588	Posted - 2014.03.12 14:58:00 - [11] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: I hate to say it, but for SP invested tankers, a MLT tank is pretty much the way to go! I totally disagree. The fit I'm working towards for tanks is a Gunnlogi with PRO main and secondary rail turrets, and two good friends to man those two turrets. Some things I consider when planning out the tank are - tiered hardeners offer the same resist bonuses and duration, but better tiers have faster cool down times - tiered extenders and boosters offer greater bonuses (more HP) at higher tiers, the booster has faster cool down at higher tiers. With that in mind, a few tanking options I was looking at include... 3x complex hardeners / These can be perma run with good skills or activated all at once for an amazing tank. (Activating the third only gives 34.2% resists instead of 60%, so I would probably hold off on the third unless I was absolutely getting pounded.) Has room for an ammo expansion. 2x complex hardeners + 1x complex booster / Two hardeners is my ideal balance after stacking penalties are factored in. The higher tier booster gives more shield HP with a faster cool down, and with the resists from the hardeners the booster gives much more eHP than it would normally. This fit needs to downgrade a secondary PRO rail to an ADV to make it fit. 2x Complex hardeners + 1x complex extender / The extender would give more HP when my hardeners aren't up (i.e. when I get shot before I can activate my hardeners) and comes with the added bonus of not needing to worry about managing an active module in a fire fight or worrying about the shield boost bug. With the hardeners active, I get less eHP than with the shield booster, but it has the benefit of always being there. Has room for an ammo expansion. All three need at least a complex CPU mod, the booster needs a PG mod also. With the additional damage from the PRO turrets over MLT turrets, having two competent gunners on voice to coordinate, and the hardener's resists outpacing the damage mod's damage bonus, I'm confident this is a good, survivable, dangerous fit. On an unrelated note, I find it difficult to lead a shot on a dropship farther than about 300m. The flavor text on the rail turret mentions a projectile moving at something like 7km/s, iirc (maybe that's the Forge Gun?) It sure doesn't feel that fast. EDIT: I'm toying around with missiles, too. Also will be using LP tanks and PRO turrets because camo. Focusing on a shield/rail tank focuses my SP, though. I don't need any other turret skills, no armor skills, no vehicle command skills (because LP tank) etc. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 666	Posted - 2014.03.12 19:47:00 - [12] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: I totally disagree. The fit I'm working towards for tanks is a Gunnlogi with PRO main and secondary rail turrets, and two good friends to man those two turrets. Some things I consider when planning out the tank are - tiered hardeners offer the same resist bonuses and duration, but better tiers have faster cool down times - tiered extenders and boosters offer greater bonuses (more HP) at higher tiers, the booster has faster cool down at higher tiers. With that in mind, a few tanking options I was looking at include... 3x complex hardeners / 2x complex hardeners + 1x complex booster / 2x Complex hardeners + 1x complex extender / All three need at least a complex CPU mod, the booster needs a PG mod also. On an unrelated note, I find it difficult to lead a shot on a dropship farther than about 300m. The flavor text on the rail turret mentions a projectile moving at something like 7km/s, iirc (maybe that's the Forge Gun?) It sure doesn't feel that fast. EDIT: I'm toying around with missiles, too. Also will be using LP tanks and PRO turrets because camo. Focusing on a shield/rail tank focuses my SP, though. I don't need any other turret skills, no armor skills, no vehicle command skills (because LP tank) etc. (Note, these are just my thoughts from my personal experiences, I encourage you to try everything out, if anything just to see for yourself.) Oh, you wanna talk tanks huh! I have most certainly tried every fit you posted up there, as well as several unorthodox fits. I have been a tanker since about May or June of last year. So I speak of experience. I'm going to work through those fitting ideas you have up, and give ya my 2 isks on them. Additionally, while I know you may like the LP one, sometimes it's more beneficial to remove the turrets (which isn't possible on the LP version) freeing up PG/CPU for the mods you want to equip. Not to mention the fact that using 2 gunners, means 2 fewer infantry running around attempting to win a match. I will agree that small turrets or small railguns do make a difference(not all the time), but I see no need to run them ALL THE TIME. I can't begin to tell you how many of those LP tanks I've blown up, with 2 gunners. The small guns can't scratch me with hardeners up, meaning only the the large turret makes any noticeable difference. But hey, I like getting 3 kills at a time so don't let me stop ya. Alright on dem fits: Triple hardener Don't like it. After the second hardener, you really have to consider what the best option would be. A damage mod means quicker engagements, lessening the need and usefulness of another hardener. But you also have to consider the fact that you have range, that SHOULD be used to your advantage if given the opportunity, negating the need for additional protection. Another mod to consider is a nitro, that can be far more useful in CQC engagements. I'm not saying it's a bad fit, because it's not. But against a proto rail tank, using 2 hardeners and one damage mod, it will fail far faster than you think. It has never been my favorite. 2 hardeners, one booster: Never use a booster anymore. Yes they are bugged or whatever, as taking damage while using one DOES NOTHIN! My thought was that it provides a huge burst of shield energy all at once, but it acts more like your passive recharge, giving you a huge jumpstart to your shields. Meaning damage stops the effect. While it may be intended, it's more useful for quick recharges if you manage to break LOS for the second or so it takes to work. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, so I kinda steer clear of it for the moment. Still, a solid fit though. 2 hardeners, one extender: Actually, I haven't done this one yet I think. I do have a fit I recently have been testing that uses pretty much nothing but extenders and plates. And to my great surprise, it works better than I expected, if you utilize a small armor rep, and your natural shield recharge. I'm making me up a fit like this, later on when I play to test out. I'm betting though this works out to be a killer fit. The thing with shield tanks, it's very important that you get hardeners up BEFORE taking damage. Hardeners don't work so well if they don't have anything to harden! Having that little bit of extra HP I suspect will make a huge difference. About them missiles, they have always been my favorite. But they can be incredibly situational. As they work very well against armor tanks, but against hardened gunnlogis, they fail. Trust me, try them out and you will see. Unfortunately, when it comes to tank on tank, a blaster or railgun works in ALL situations as opposed to missiles that work for one type of tank. Also, you mentioned ammo dumps, don't bother. Ammo really isn't much of an issue atm, as I go many matches never depleting it. I would suggest putting point into your rail turrets ammo skill. I very rarely equip one, and only because I can't possibly fit anything else in that slot. And no way in hell I'm leaving it blank. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 603	Posted - 2014.03.12 20:52:00 - [13] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Goodposting Awesome! I was hoping you'd critique the fits instead of blasting me for not knowing what I'm talking about, because I don't. I have very minimal vehicle skills currently and have other priorities. I do want to become proficient with tanks especially in the near future, though. The fits I made up were made using Harpyja's Vehicle Fitting Tool with max skills. I put a PRO rail main turret on all of them and built around that. I'm straight up theorycrafting. 2x Hardener / 1x Booster Right now I run a Basic State Gunnlogi fit with 2x Hardener and 1x Booster. I use MLT mods where I fitting allows to save a little ISK. The main turret is the prefit AUR STD rail turret, and I upgraded the two secondaries to LP ADV rails. When the booster works, it's amazing. Like we mentioned though, there does seem to be a bug where when I activate it quickly after hardener, the hardener goes to cool down and the booster doesn't activate. This scenario usually plays out when I get shot first. I usually have about 1/3 shield left, so I activate the hardener and the booster immediately after. That way (if it works) the freshly boosted shield HP is already hardened. Also, you mention any damage being able to stop the boost process. I haven't noticed that, but it feels to be the case. I'll pay better attention in the future. If so, it should definitely not be the case. Shield HP gained from a booster should be instantaneous. Whether that HP is gained from one large pulse, or several smaller pulses like it used to be, each pulse should be instant. Also, the shield booster not activating correctly is known to CCP and a 'fix is in the works.' So my reasoning with skilling into tanks is to have the increased damage from better turrets, the shorter cool down from better mods, and better fitting to fit those better mods. So that's what I use now. Having competent gunners I've found greatly increasing my survivability, not just cause they can shoot things, but they can tell me what they see. You're right though, there's no reason to run around with them all the time. When I don't have gunners I usually default to my glass cannon Sica. 3x Hardener Here's my thoughts with the other fits. The triple hardeners are purely because I would be able to perma-run them, which I think is cool in and of itself. But you're right in that having 3 active at once isn't so great due to stacking penalties and the way resist work. Here's the resists for each hardener, as per Harpyja's fitting tool. 1st Active Hardener - 60% 2nd Active Hardener - 81% 3rd Active Hardener - 87% Like I said, it would be a novelty fit and I probably wouldn't run it much past first being able to. 2x Hardeners / 1x Extender: The extender fit is what I'm most looking forward to for the reasons you listed, unless Shield Boosters get fixed and reworked so that the pulse can't be interrupted, then it would be a tie. Even then, not having to manage an active mod is appealing. When you get a chance to play with this one, let me know how it is. I need fitting mods to make it work (even at all 5s) but if you take off the turrets you could probably fit some useful armor mods in the lows. Maybe a repper for when you can't make it to a supply depot because they're on the damn roof or fenced in. The ammo expansions are definitely because I didn't want that slot to go empty. One thing I thought about are triple complex extenders. One of the downfalls I saw with this is even thoug hyo ucan get over 6,000 Shield HP, you've got no resistances, so all the damage hitting you is coming through. Also, the fact that you have a large pool of shield HP doesn't change the fact that your HP/s would sit at 168. It would take longer to get to full shields with triple extenders, and you'd want to be at full shield before going into an engagement without hardeners. I looked at 1 hardener and 2 extenders also. 2 hardeners and 1 extender give better eHP values though, so I thought it would be better all around. I might revisit that when I have the skills to play with it in game. Thanks for the response. Look forward to how that extender fit works out. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1862	Posted - 2014.03.12 21:03:00 - [14] - Quote I'll leave this here 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever! Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8149	Posted - 2014.03.12 21:41:00 - [15] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: It has been a LONG time, but a Sica did it. It owned me from way back in the redline. And all it took was two shots. One for my shields, one for the armor. I had actually forgotten that could even happen! This happened multiple times, as I'm not one to let a cheap ass redliner live. I'm really wondering why the hell I pull out a half mil tank, when I could easily kill every tank on the map with a Sica with stacked damage mods. Long Sigh I sure miss tanking. Agreed.... I miss when tanking required effort. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Horizen Kenpachi The Elite Forces Of Feros DARKSTAR ARMY 223	Posted - 2014.03.12 21:51:00 - [16] - Quote Rail **** my missiles off i rarely resort to such srubbery it only annoys me if the dredline is involved Hit me with your nerf bat.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 669	Posted - 2014.03.12 23:03:00 - [17] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: I'll leave this here I swear I've commented on that already! Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1863	Posted - 2014.03.13 00:20:00 - [18] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: I'll leave this here I swear I've commented on that already! Might have 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever! Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Foundation Seldon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 546	Posted - 2014.03.13 02:48:00 - [19] - Quote We showing off fits now? My Typical Gunnlogi goes .. 2 Enhanced Shield Hardener 1 Damage Mod 1 Complex 120mm Plate (+1800 armor bwahahaa) 1 Basic Armor Hardener ADV Rail You see with Armor and Shield Fitting Proficiencies maxed, the Gunnlogi becomes a ridiculously effective dual tanked monstrosity. The only hitch with this is that the majority of the Tank is lopsided on the Shield Spectrum thanks to the dual hardeners and if someone gets the jump on the fit then the Shields can be wiped out in a single damage modded Rail shot. Unlike non-dual tanked setups though the 3300ish Armor im running with + Armor Hardener can buy me enough time to at least attempt to retaliate. I'm never 2 shotted at least. HOWEVER .. I COULD run this setup. 2 Enhanced Shield Hardeners 1 Enhanced Heavy Shield Extender 1 Basic 120mm Plate 1 Basic Armor Hardener ADV Rail ... and basically circumvent the main flaw of the last fit, I don't believe there's any way to shred off 3600 Shields in a single hit and because of that I can reaction turn on both shield hardeners while still having a pretty great armor pool to tank any remaining damage. Actually I think I like this fit more than the damage mod one, brb gonna go test it out. tl;dr - maxed fitting proficiency Gunnlogis are secretly Minmatar Dual Tanks and will destroy your face. Saga v. Methana Balance
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1525	Posted - 2014.03.13 03:03:00 - [20] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: It has been a LONG time, but a Sica did it. It owned me from way back in the redline. And all it took was two shots. One for my shields, one for the armor. I had actually forgotten that could even happen! This happened multiple times, as I'm not one to let a cheap ass redliner live. I'm really wondering why the hell I pull out a half mil tank, when I could easily kill every tank on the map with a Sica with stacked damage mods. Long Sigh I sure miss tanking. Yep, they work in CQ too and every scrub and his mother is pulling one out at his convenience. So, missile tanks are irrelevant, tank skills mean nothing and all we really have left to do is all go grab a heavy suit with a light weapon and just run around and around and around. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!

THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD 550	Posted - 2014.03.13 03:05:00 - [21] - Quote I've one hit a Sica once. Gunlogi, particle cannon, three damage mods, hit them in the weak spot. Too bad it was stolen and I was in FW. Got kicked Amarr Logi \| Amarr Sentinel Projects: TDBS \| SDETool
Henrietta Unknown Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors 32	Posted - 2014.03.13 03:46:00 - [22] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: I've one hit a Sica once. Gunlogi, particle cannon, three damage mods, hit them in the weak spot. Too bad it was stolen and I was in FW. Got kicked That tanker would've been me if I actually played FW.
LittleCuteBunny 352	Posted - 2014.03.13 04:11:00 - [23] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: It has been a LONG time, but a Sica did it. It owned me from way back in the redline. And all it took was two shots. One for my shields, one for the armor. I had actually forgotten that could even happen! This happened multiple times, as I'm not one to let a cheap ass redliner live. I'm really wondering why the hell I pull out a half mil tank, when I could easily kill every tank on the map with a Sica with stacked damage mods. Long Sigh I sure miss tanking. Was that my 60k Sica? :O Recruiter Link Retired.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 669	Posted - 2014.03.13 12:33:00 - [24] - Quote LittleCuteBunny wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: It has been a LONG time, but a Sica did it. It owned me from way back in the redline. And all it took was two shots. One for my shields, one for the armor. I had actually forgotten that could even happen! This happened multiple times, as I'm not one to let a cheap ass redliner live. I'm really wondering why the hell I pull out a half mil tank, when I could easily kill every tank on the map with a Sica with stacked damage mods. Long Sigh I sure miss tanking. Was that my 60k Sica? :O IT WAS YOU!!! GG with that OP sica! Were you seriously using a milta turret? Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2050	Posted - 2014.03.13 12:43:00 - [25] - Quote My favourite fitting recently is XT missiles, 2x damage mods, a nitrous, a 120 plate and a repper. Basically a shotgun scout with all the durability that implies. But when it works... Oh god. It is hilarious to instagib a shield tank from behind. Assault ak.0 w/ScR+ScP 4LYFE Forum Warrior Level Two. (GëºGêçGëª)/


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