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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
2406
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
On other games vehicles are not too much of a issue because you have the choice to use a AV weapon as sidearm. For example here a list of games that do this:
COD:
- the infamous stinger to shot down air support
BF4:
-The engineer is the class that has Stingers/Anti Tank missile launchers as sidearm (and the rep tool did damage to vehicles)
MAG:
-AV is again as sidearm which allowed you to take out APC's, helicopters and turrets on bunkers
Titanfall:
Every class has a AV weapon against titans as sidearm
Allmost every shooter that has some reputation has AV as sidearm listed. If tankers say that it should need more then 1 guy to take them on then so be it but only if plasma cannons and swarm launchers become sidearms. It is not a hard thing to do in terms of coding. Just go and change the light AV weapons from the light weapon slot to the sidearm slot. And who cares if you see a heavy with a forgegun+swarm launcher running after tanks? He cant do anything against infantry.
I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
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Squagga
The State Protectorate
288
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP really doesn't like it when we take down tanks
Reloading, the silent killer.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8126
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not going to lie.
Tanks are in a bad place right now. Too powerful.
But in other games you balance those AV weapons by class, unsure of titan fall, but these other games do not see you pitting your own assets against other players.
If every unit could carry an AV and primary weapon there would be no place for vehicle users on the map.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
2013
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Not going to lie.
Tanks are in a bad place right now. Too powerful.
But in other games you balance those AV weapons by class, unsure of titan fall, but these other games do not see you pitting your own assets against other players.
If every unit could carry an AV and primary weapon there would be no place for vehicle users on the map.
Give Logistic suits (after nerfing them) a special slot for AV only.
For the Federation!
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8128
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:True Adamance wrote:Not going to lie.
Tanks are in a bad place right now. Too powerful.
But in other games you balance those AV weapons by class, unsure of titan fall, but these other games do not see you pitting your own assets against other players.
If every unit could carry an AV and primary weapon there would be no place for vehicle users on the map. Give Logistic suits (after nerfing them) a special slot for AV only.
Perhaps but why tack that on the logistics class.
Could you not simply have a dedicated Anti Vehicle suit type?
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
Lokun Listamenn
3405
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
That's not a sidearm, that's a secondary weapon. Sidearm refers to handguns, like pistols.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Are you OUKH?
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
5626
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
I believe CCP is trying to implement a similar mechanic with the Commando suits.
I'm not saying no or anything, but I want to see how this plays out first.
AV > HAV > INF > AV | Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
2406
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 02:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Not going to lie.
Tanks are in a bad place right now. Too powerful.
But in other games you balance those AV weapons by class, unsure of titan fall, but these other games do not see you pitting your own assets against other players.
If every unit could carry an AV and primary weapon there would be no place for vehicle users on the map.
At the moment its like this:
-vehicles kill infantry and can take on other vehicles
-infantry can kill other infantry but cant take on vehicles while beeing in their regular suit which has no AV weapon
The current low costs, high survivability and low powered AV requires that light AV weapons should be switched over to sidearms. It is not like back in the days where a tank could easy cost 1 million ISK+. And you seem to underestimate the value of a decent sidearm like a SMG. Whenever you run out of ammo in a gunfight you want that SMG/scrambler pistol.
I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8128
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I believe CCP is trying to implement a similar mechanic with the Commando suits.
I'm not saying no or anything, but I want to see how this plays out first.
Indeed.....I understand the HAV running rampant is not enjoyable gameplay for anyone....however neither would everyone and their mother popping AV at a moments notice it would essentially deny a vehicle game.
The last thing I think anyone wants to see is a massive disparity between AV and HAV that causes one to be relegated into uselessness.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
2406
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 02:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I believe CCP is trying to implement a similar mechanic with the Commando suits.
I'm not saying no or anything, but I want to see how this plays out first.
Commandos are not really good for AV. Too slow, not much of fitting options etc. We need this so that every 1 ranging from the newest player to the oldest vet can contribute in fighting vehicles back. And if you dont believe me then you should see how ambush matches turn out with 7 tanks on one side.
I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
2013
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 02:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Atiim wrote:I believe CCP is trying to implement a similar mechanic with the Commando suits.
I'm not saying no or anything, but I want to see how this plays out first. Indeed.....I understand the HAV running rampant is not enjoyable gameplay for anyone....however neither would everyone and their mother popping AV at a moments notice it would essentially deny a vehicle game. The last thing I think anyone wants to see is a massive disparity between AV and HAV that causes one to be relegated into uselessness.
That's kinda the pattern ain't it... one patch makes something else useless for a couple months... then the next patch make that one thing useless.
For the Federation!
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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
826
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
A forge gun as a sidearm...
Best PVE idea I've seen.
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
2013
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 02:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Atiim wrote:I believe CCP is trying to implement a similar mechanic with the Commando suits.
I'm not saying no or anything, but I want to see how this plays out first. Commandos are not really good for AV. Too slow, not much of fitting options etc. We need this so that every 1 ranging from the newest player to the oldest vet can contribute in fighting vehicles back. And if you dont believe me then you should see how ambush matches turn out with 7 tanks on one side.
They would be good for AV if the damage bonus was for the racial weapons not the rifles.
For the Federation!
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8129
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:The dark cloud wrote:Atiim wrote:I believe CCP is trying to implement a similar mechanic with the Commando suits.
I'm not saying no or anything, but I want to see how this plays out first. Commandos are not really good for AV. Too slow, not much of fitting options etc. We need this so that every 1 ranging from the newest player to the oldest vet can contribute in fighting vehicles back. And if you dont believe me then you should see how ambush matches turn out with 7 tanks on one side. They would be good for AV if the damage bonus was for the racial weapons not the rifles.
They are for the racial weapons.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136370&find=unread
Nowhere does it expressly say damage bonuses only apply to rifles.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
2409
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 02:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:A forge gun as a sidearm...
Please quote me where i sayd that forgeguns should be sidearms. Cause they are heavy weapons and if you cant read my post please stay out.
I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8130
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:A forge gun as a sidearm... Please quote me where i sayd that forgeguns should be sidearms. Cause they are heavy weapons and if you cant read my post please stay out.
This is not a required feature.....only a desired one. Many other FPS and shooters prefer to use Anti Tank classes. These classes have access to heavy weapon but no primary weapons.
Such classes were far from impotent.
What do you suppose the situation of the game might look like if every player had access to a Light AV option with no restrictions placed on their class?
Even BF 3-4 restricts the fitting options of the Engineer Class.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
582
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 02:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Make an AV role bonused suit. No reason to restrict it to one size frame, either.
Fast, light AV suits can chase, plant bonused REs, Proxy's, and AV nades, get weapon bonuses to racial AV weapons and be inherently hard to detect by vehicle scanners.
Medium AV suits could get bonuses AV weapon damage, range, reload, RoF, etc.
Heavy AV suits could get bonuses to AV weapon damage and defensive bonuses for staying power. You shot my heavy with your rail turret square in my chest? That's fine, give me one or two more.
The all three get bonuses that suit their playstyle. Give me more time to put more effort into and I can really make it shine. (Hint: I don't care to.)
All ideas I came up with in about 2 seconds that are all better than making a plasma cannon or swarm launcher into a sidearm.
If anything, from a purely in game perspective (i.e. not worried about mechanices or balance, which sidearm AV weapons would wreck), Light AV weapons are shoulder mounted. Make them heavy. (This is a slightly less disagreeable idea to me than making AV weapons sidearms. Still don't know if I'd go for it because it would limit AV weapons to heavies and sentinels.)
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Rusty Shallows
1083
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 02:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Atiim wrote:I believe CCP is trying to implement a similar mechanic with the Commando suits.
I'm not saying no or anything, but I want to see how this plays out first. Commandos are not really good for AV. Too slow, not much of fitting options etc. We need this so that every 1 ranging from the newest player to the oldest vet can contribute in fighting vehicles back. And if you dont believe me then you should see how ambush matches turn out with 7 tanks on one side.
Not really sure here but Swarm Launchers and the Winmater Commando could work. Throw in the bonus option for training Advanced Sentinel for a sexy 2-High/2-Low slot layout.
Here, have some candy and a Like. :-)
Forums > Game
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8131
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:Make an AV role bonused suit. No reason to restrict it to one size frame, either.
Fast, light AV suits can chase, plant bonused REs, Proxy's, and AV nades, get weapon bonuses to racial AV weapons and be inherently hard to detect by vehicle scanners.
Medium AV suits could get bonuses AV weapon damage, range, reload, RoF, etc.
Heavy AV suits could get bonuses to AV weapon damage and defensive bonuses for staying power. You shot my heavy with your rail turret square in my chest? That's fine, give me one or two more.
The all three get bonuses that suit their playstyle. Give me more time to put more effort into and I can really make it shine. (Hint: I don't care to.)
All ideas I came up with in about 2 seconds that are all better than making a plasma cannon or swarm launcher into a sidearm.
If anything, from a purely in game perspective (i.e. not worried about mechanices or balance, which sidearm AV weapons would wreck), Light AV weapons are shoulder mounted. Make them heavy. (This is a slightly less disagreeable idea to me than making AV weapons sidearms. Still don't know if I'd go for it because it would limit AV weapons to heavies and sentinels.)
I have seen a very interesting model for dropsuit development which rather than moving in an ascending order from Std-> Proto moves in an interesting direction moving from generalist role --> battlefield role specialist.
Could something like this fit your idea or is it as simple as creating a light AV suit which can couple AV weapons with light weapons.
How could that be balanced I wonder? Fitting constraints? Module constraints? ISK or skill constraints?
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
|
Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
583
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 02:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:interesting questions
It's late here and I'm going to bed. Like I mentioned, I thought of that literally in a few seconds and not much more after that. I can give it some more thought and post it up. I also see you're in PIE. Maybe we can meet up in your FW chat some time and shoot ideas back and forth. If I could get something coherent enough I could make it its own thread.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8131
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:True Adamance wrote:interesting questions It's late here and I'm going to bed. Like I mentioned, I thought of that literally in a few seconds and not much more after that. I can give it some more thought and post it up. I also see you're in PIE. Maybe we can meet up in your FW chat some time and shoot ideas back and forth. If I could get something coherent enough I could make it its own thread.
Rodger I look forwards to it.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
2352
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 03:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
I would support AV focused sidearms and a general buff to AV nades as well. But to have forge guns or even (buffed and fixed) swarm launchers as a sidearm that everyone carries would be far too powerful.
I do understand the frustration with switching between AI and AV though, esp considering how there are almost no supply depots on most maps.
In fact... I think a much better plan would be to make it so depots and turrets cannot be permanently destroyed, only disabled. That way vehicles cant roll around the map and destroy every single installation within the first 2 minutes or so. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
5626
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 03:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Atiim wrote:I believe CCP is trying to implement a similar mechanic with the Commando suits.
I'm not saying no or anything, but I want to see how this plays out first. Commandos are not really good for AV. Too slow, not much of fitting options etc. We need this so that every 1 ranging from the newest player to the oldest vet can contribute in fighting vehicles back. And if you don't believe me then you should see how ambush matches turn out with 7 tanks on one side.
You mean 9? Because that's the team-quota in Ambush 
Anyways, the Commando is basically a weaker Sentinel with 2 Light Weapon Slots, but the Magsec SMG will mean that using a Sentinel with a Forge Gun will be the best option in 1.8; and will outshine the Commando in terms of damage and power. The only advantages the Commando has is the ability to carry their own Nanohives, and the ability to carry two AV weapons.
However, I don't think it would be balanced if 14-16 players instantly had PRO AV the second a pilot showed up. Could you imagine what it would be like to run a scout while everyone is spamming Assault MDs and Focused Scanners? That's what being a vehicle pilot would feel like if AV was made into a sidearm.
I believe the best course of action would be an AV frame. Your suit gets bonuses that would greatly improve the AV weapon, and would also transform AV into a true role. Every other role in the game has a frame that compliments it, so why not give AV the same?
I really hope the Magsec SMG is good though. It would finally solve one of the biggest problems that AV has.
AV > HAV > INF > AV | Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8131
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Posted - 2014.03.12 03:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:I would support AV focused sidearms and a general buff to AV nades as well. But to have forge guns or even (buffed and fixed) swarm launchers as a sidearm that everyone carries would be far too powerful.
I do understand the frustration with switching between AI and AV though, esp considering how there are almost no supply depots on most maps.
In fact... I think a much better plan would be to make it so depots and turrets cannot be permanently destroyed, only disabled. That way vehicles cant roll around the map and destroy every single installation within the first 2 minutes or so.
Perhaps....maybe even if not permanently destroyed replaceable somehow.
I also agree with the AV grenade statement. Currently top tier AV nades are usable against HAV units......it could be that pack AV grenades recieve a bonus or some sort to damage but suffer in other ways like not detonating on impact or not homing.
Otherwise I feel the only AV grenade used would these buffed Pack AV grenades.....could you imagine in future how those could unbalance lighter frame ground vehicles.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8131
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Posted - 2014.03.12 03:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Atiim wrote:The dark cloud wrote:Atiim wrote:I believe CCP is trying to implement a similar mechanic with the Commando suits.
I'm not saying no or anything, but I want to see how this plays out first. Commandos are not really good for AV. Too slow, not much of fitting options etc. We need this so that every 1 ranging from the newest player to the oldest vet can contribute in fighting vehicles back. And if you don't believe me then you should see how ambush matches turn out with 7 tanks on one side. You mean 9? Because that's the team-quota in Ambush Anyways, the Commando is basically a weaker Sentinel with 2 Light Weapon Slots, but the Magsec SMG will mean that using a Sentinel with a Forge Gun will be the best option in 1.8; and will outshine the Commando in terms of damage and power. The only advantages the Commando has is the ability to carry their own Nanohives, and the ability to carry two AV weapons. However, I don't think it would be balanced if 14-16 players instantly had PRO AV the second a pilot showed up. Could you imagine what it would be like to run a scout while everyone is spamming Assault MDs and Focused Scanners? That's what being a vehicle pilot would feel like if AV was made into a sidearm. I believe the best course of action would be an AV frame. Your suit gets bonuses that would greatly improve the AV weapon, and would also transform AV into a true role. Every other role in the game has a frame that compliments it, so why not give AV the same? I really hope the Magsec SMG is good though. It would finally solve one of the biggest problems that AV has.
Your lack of Faith is disturbing Atiim. Have faith in the laser. We Commando's will quash the sentinel spam with our righteous 10% damage extra laser rifles!
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
5626
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Posted - 2014.03.12 03:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:I would support AV focused sidearms and a general buff to AV nades as well. But to have forge guns or even (buffed and fixed) swarm launchers as a sidearm that everyone carries would be far too powerful.
I do understand the frustration with switching between AI and AV though, esp considering how there are almost no supply depots on most maps.
In fact... I think a much better plan would be to make it so depots and turrets cannot be permanently destroyed, only disabled. That way vehicles cant roll around the map and destroy every single installation within the first 2 minutes or so. Perhaps....maybe even if not permanently destroyed replaceable somehow. I also agree with the AV grenade statement. Currently top tier AV nades are usable against HAV units......it could be that pack AV grenades recieve a bonus or some sort to damage but suffer in other ways like not detonating on impact or not homing. Otherwise I feel the only AV grenade used would these buffed Pack AV grenades.....could you imagine in future how those could unbalance lighter frame ground vehicles.
How about we make it to where we can purchase and deploy our own installations?
You know, that option that's been sitting in the deployment window since 1.0?
AV > HAV > INF > AV | Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
5626
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Posted - 2014.03.12 03:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
Your lack of Faith is disturbing Atiim. Have faith in the laser. We Commando's will quash the sentinel spam with our righteous 10% damage extra laser rifles!
*Stacks Armor Plates*
*Pulls out MagSec SMG*
AV > HAV > INF > AV | Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8132
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 03:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Atiim wrote:True Adamance wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:I would support AV focused sidearms and a general buff to AV nades as well. But to have forge guns or even (buffed and fixed) swarm launchers as a sidearm that everyone carries would be far too powerful.
I do understand the frustration with switching between AI and AV though, esp considering how there are almost no supply depots on most maps.
In fact... I think a much better plan would be to make it so depots and turrets cannot be permanently destroyed, only disabled. That way vehicles cant roll around the map and destroy every single installation within the first 2 minutes or so. Perhaps....maybe even if not permanently destroyed replaceable somehow. I also agree with the AV grenade statement. Currently top tier AV nades are usable against HAV units......it could be that pack AV grenades recieve a bonus or some sort to damage but suffer in other ways like not detonating on impact or not homing. Otherwise I feel the only AV grenade used would these buffed Pack AV grenades.....could you imagine in future how those could unbalance lighter frame ground vehicles. How about we make it to where we can purchase and deploy our own installations? You know, that option that's been sitting in the deployment window since 1.0?
That has been a much awaited feature....I didnt post it because well...ZDubs and .....mockery...and well....etc.
Agreed., in many respects I could really see the battlefield changing shape if turret/ installations could be called in.
Could these then consume vehicle slots? Additionally I would all like to think one day I could deploy in my tank in a similar manner at a squad leaders request....at say the cost of a 15-20 second period where I can neither move, use modules or shoot.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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knight of 6
SVER True Blood
General Tso's Alliance
1575
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Posted - 2014.03.12 03:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
I could support light weapon AV as a side arm option. the forge however should stay a primary.
obviously rebalencing light AV would need to happen to reflect it's new status.
GÇ£Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I am dampened.GÇ¥
Ko6 scout,
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
5626
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Posted - 2014.03.12 03:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
That has been a much awaited feature....I didnt post it because well...ZDubs and .....mockery...and well....etc.
Agreed., in many respects I could really see the battlefield changing shape if turret/ installations could be called in.
Could these then consume vehicle slots? Additionally I would all like to think one day I could deploy in my tank in a similar manner at a squad leaders request....at say the cost of a 15-20 second period where I can neither move, use modules or shoot.
I'd actually love to see them consume vehicle slots. Maybe we could even return the Small Turret Installations from replication.
As for your tank, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with that. Though 20s seems a bit long.
AV > HAV > INF > AV | Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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