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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8084
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Posted - 2014.03.10 22:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Even if you are saving up skill points, it doesn't change the fact that a skill refund is needed and is the right thing to do.
Right thing to do is very subjective in this regard....make no mistake you know I want to skill out of my 4 -5 mill in dropsuit command...... but will it actually happen?
They never respeced EVE, and only ever refunded when skills were removed or had their descriptions entirely altered.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8086
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Posted - 2014.03.10 23:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
ResistanceGTA wrote:True Adamance wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Even if you are saving up skill points, it doesn't change the fact that a skill refund is needed and is the right thing to do. Right thing to do is very subjective in this regard....make no mistake you know I want to skill out of my 4 -5 mill in dropsuit command...... but will it actually happen? They never respeced EVE, and only ever refunded when skills were removed or had their descriptions entirely altered. Which is happening? I mean, no Logi will be the same, with the Gallente being the closest, what with the built in 2/Rep and the new general Logi bonus (and to a lesser extent the Minmatar will be close with the innate 20% hack bonus). Big issue being that CCP decided that doing all the suits would be to much, so, they decided to do the bare minimum on the Mediums, leaving them for later. So, a respec now on suits still means speccing a Medium suit is risky. Also, adding 8 suits when you currently only have 12, and adding desperately needed racial sidearms to balance out the spectrum (Heavies are still hurting) means at the very least you need to give Heavies and Scouts their points back. Plus, the number of people that may have specced a medium suit because their preferred suit was unavailable could be substantial... We shall know soon, once we get that dropsuit Dev Blog... Which I'm assuming will be the last one, after the Cloak (Equipment) one.
Indeed we shall find out.
I would relish the opportunity to make my character what he should have been if all content had been released..... but I'm not really holding out much hope for that.
Amarr HAV has all of my hope wrapped up into it.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8113
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Posted - 2014.03.11 23:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Atiim wrote:echo47 wrote: No one forced you to skill into anything. Not having the option for a particular suit does not prevent you form skilling into that suit once it is available. All roles were available, scout, assault and heavy. The racial drop suit was not available. The same way all racial weapons were not available.
So what do you have to say to the non-casual, Faction Loyalists? You know, the ones that New Eden itself revolves around?
Well said. My corporation is 10 years old, it has retained the tradition of only accepting Amarr bloodline players, and only using Amarr hulls and weapons.
I am expected to follow this tradition. for 9 months I've had to tank using Gallente HAV.
Remember this game is DUst 514 not "Gallente-Caldari War: The video game".
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8113
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Posted - 2014.03.11 23:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Raylon Mortien wrote:True Adamance wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Even if you are saving up skill points, it doesn't change the fact that a skill refund is needed and is the right thing to do. Right thing to do is very subjective in this regard....make no mistake you know I want to skill out of my 4 -5 mill in dropsuit command...... but will it actually happen? They never respeced EVE, and only ever refunded when skills were removed or had their descriptions entirely altered. This isn't EVE and the skill points don't exactly work the same, not to mention this is not EVE, it is a FPS and the skill points aren't acquired or used in the same manner, did I mention this isn't EVE or that the skill point and/or "skill tree" is completely different? Still not EVE....
I'm not arguing against a respec I'd love one. I am merely stating the stance they have taken on our parent game.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8113
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Posted - 2014.03.11 23:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Atiim wrote:True Adamance wrote:Raylon Mortien wrote:True Adamance wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Even if you are saving up skill points, it doesn't change the fact that a skill refund is needed and is the right thing to do. Right thing to do is very subjective in this regard....make no mistake you know I want to skill out of my 4 -5 mill in dropsuit command...... but will it actually happen? They never respeced EVE, and only ever refunded when skills were removed or had their descriptions entirely altered. This isn't EVE and the skill points don't exactly work the same, not to mention this is not EVE, it is a FPS and the skill points aren't acquired or used in the same manner, did I mention this isn't EVE or that the skill point and/or "skill tree" is completely different? Still not EVE.... I'm not arguing against a respec I'd love one. I am merely stating the stance they have taken on our parent game. Keep in mind however, that there has never been a single ship in EVE Online that was released without all four of the faction's versions. Can you confirm that...I have heard some argue otherwise against me when I have said this.
This was my understanding as well.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8117
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Posted - 2014.03.11 23:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:There's almost definitely going to be a refund for the physical changes they're making, whereas the balancing and addition changes probably won't get a refund.
Sentinel, Commando, Scout dropsuit skills - Almost guaranteed Entire dropsuit command - likely Entire dropsuit upgrades tree - maybe Anything out of weaponry - very unlikely. Entire respec - No, just no.
The thing is, weapon balances and dropsuit balances in the past haven't given us skill points back. It's only when they've added a substatial amount to the game (i.e. Uprising) or when they completely change and rebalance the physical properties of an item (i.e. the tank update)
but the problem is, they haven't really changed anything with the weapons. Yeah they swung a giant nerf bat at them but that's no reason for them to give us points back. The only time I would want CCP to give me a refund in weaponry is if they changed the Scrambler to an automatic weapon, or if they made the HMG increase in spread as you fire it.
Changing physical properties is what demands a refund, not just nerfing, balancing, or new stuff.
Unlikely a full respec true enough but perhaps a dropsuit and core skills refund. As you say they have changed the physical properties of dropsuit content.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8117
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Posted - 2014.03.11 23:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:True Adamance wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:There's almost definitely going to be a refund for the physical changes they're making, whereas the balancing and addition changes probably won't get a refund.
Sentinel, Commando, Scout dropsuit skills - Almost guaranteed Entire dropsuit command - likely Entire dropsuit upgrades tree - maybe Anything out of weaponry - very unlikely. Entire respec - No, just no.
The thing is, weapon balances and dropsuit balances in the past haven't given us skill points back. It's only when they've added a substatial amount to the game (i.e. Uprising) or when they completely change and rebalance the physical properties of an item (i.e. the tank update)
but the problem is, they haven't really changed anything with the weapons. Yeah they swung a giant nerf bat at them but that's no reason for them to give us points back. The only time I would want CCP to give me a refund in weaponry is if they changed the Scrambler to an automatic weapon, or if they made the HMG increase in spread as you fire it.
Changing physical properties is what demands a refund, not just nerfing, balancing, or new stuff. Unlikely a full respec true enough but perhaps a dropsuit and core skills refund. As you say they have changed the physical properties of dropsuit content. The problem with only refunding Dropsuit Command and Upgrade is that you allow literally every type of suit the option to switch into any other type of suit, except heavies. Anyone could go heavy and keep their light weapon and still be useful, with either Commandos or Sentinels. The same can not be said of heavies. While everyone else is given the freedom to do what they want, heavies are forced to stay as heavies or sit on heavy weapon SP that they can no longer use, even if they were to switch to the other heavy frame (commandos) There are other reasons to refund Weaponry, but this is the big one. Fair enough I actually forgot to include weaponry in the previous post.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8118
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Posted - 2014.03.11 23:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Magewarlord wrote:If they come with new races of dropsuits, then the Dropsuit Command should be the only respec. Seeing there were limited classes, we were stuck choosing one until the rest get added. However if you decide you want to completely switch your class, then you'll just have to start from scratch like anyone else. This type of limited respec will allow players to choose from the new races, but switching your class might cost you some work... Though I do agree that if they nerf or change any skills, then that skill should be reset so the player has the option of keeping it or changing it. I disagree. Core content for this game demands that empire racial content is available for us to make use of.
Any content beyond that is expansion and relies on building up established skills already implemented.
E.G-
Amarr Frigates Minmatar Frigates Caldari Frigates Gallente Frigates
all require their associated racial skill
Sisters of EVE Frigates
requires Amarr Frigate and Gallente Frigate Skills to operate.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
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