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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1634
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Posted - 2014.03.07 03:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
For those who may wish to claim it was done improperly, a vote was conducted, and it passed six to one for the removal of WTFA. WTF has twelve districts they can practice on.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1634
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Posted - 2014.03.07 04:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
xMaggot Brainx wrote:FYI , it was Kain Spero who approached PFC landowners about creating a council in the first place.
Actually, he solicited people's opinions on what should be done about PFC. I'm one of the people who heavily proposed community enforcement. Spero provides the brute force that backs it up.
The Council has been voting regularly on implementing a cohesive set of rules, and the Council also votes whether or not to remove corps when they're perceived to violate those rules. Spero does not have a vote. (Neither do I, actually.)
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1635
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Posted - 2014.03.07 05:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mr Machine Guns wrote:but you aren't on PFC so why are you in the council
I'm sort of the secretary. I set up the vote threads, close the vote threads, etc. You do not want a Council member to do that since their district may be removed. And you do not want Spero to do it, since then he might have too much say in what does and doesn't reach the voting floor in the Council. The role I fill should also have a procedure for the Council to replace me as well, but we haven't gotten there yet, I think.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1635
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Posted - 2014.03.07 08:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mr Machine Guns wrote:but you being a secretary can lead to you being biased because you might favor corps in your alliance,i just feel this council is a terrible idea and i feel i can 10 rules max that will be simple and easy to follow
I do actually make a distinct point NOT to talk to my alliance members on the Council about the Council. We call a vote when there's three or more people pushing for the same action. Doesn't matter which Council members they are, or whether or not I agree with it. They vote their own opinions, and get no special treatment.
bigolenuts wrote:IS Kain on the council? He should be if he is. He shouldn't even be privy to any information of why someone is being removed. Just saying. If he is on the council that comes in to play in an odd way I'd say. A conflict of interest. of sorts.
He's a non-voting participant on the board. Technically he isn't "on the Council", but he needs to be present to interact with Council members.
Krixus Flux wrote:If you're secretary then why are you doing PR? You just file stuff.
My posts here (except for maybe the original PFC Council thread post) aren't really official. It's just my opinions, plus facts that I know because I can see what's going on. My statements doesn't necessarily reflect the opinions of the Council. I did step in and clarify though that WTFA was voted out by the Council, which is a fact. And a statement of the Council's opinion, I suppose.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1641
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Posted - 2014.03.07 17:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Shiyou Hidiyoshi wrote:I'm confused...
GTA has alliance members with districts on PFC and they stay despite having FA to back them up.
Yet WTF gets their training corp kicked out???
The by-and-large difference is that General Tso's is not a particularly integrated alliance. The corps who have PFC districts largely are fighting entirely their own battles. Whereas WTFA's district is half or more WTF members every fight. And WTFA is a training corp for WTF, not just "another corp in the alliance".
Sure, the distinction isn't 100% cut and dry, but that's why we have a Council that can vote on these things as a community.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1642
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:Listen, I be goin ta be tha voice of reason here, What Da Frence.
When Knight Soiaire is the voice of reason, the thread has ended, and things have gone off the deep end. You can all stop now. o.O
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1645
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Posted - 2014.03.07 20:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mr Machine Guns, the fact that you have still failed to grasp, all this time later: Is that PFC rules don't affect you, so you have no real reason to care, or keep trying to dictate what those rules are. People who have an invested participation in PFC are agreeing upon the rules of conduct.
TRE will be using it for practice matches with other PFC corps. I know our EU side actually is looking forward to getting a chance to face off with them. (I've also been told TRE will be abstaining from voting since they're in N-F.)
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1645
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Posted - 2014.03.07 21:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mr Machine Guns wrote:But you aren't on PFC either so why do you care what I'm writing I'm just voicing my opinion about PFC, it just seems like the council is taking a very long time to set up rules and i think the council is a bad idea because it just might lead to corps staying longer then intended
It's not your decision how long people are "intended" to remain on PFC. While my corp is not on PFC, I do on occasion play in an alliance PFC fight, and even though that isn't frequent anymore (we have a lot of newer players who want a crack at it), I support my alliance. And my alliance benefits from PFC.
Mr Machine Guns wrote:PFC rules will effected everyone because if alliances hold district both on PFC and outside PFC, and a war happens what are the PFC district off limits or are they fair game because those two alliances are fighting each other
PFC is neutral ground, it should not be warred over. There is a rule already in place forbidding the use of clones from PFC districts in attacks on outside districts, so you can rest assured that PFC districts cannot pose a threat to you in a time of war.
bigolenuts wrote:PFC doesn't work. It just an ISK sink for others to get rich on. I asked about 3 weeks ago for someone to show proof that PFc actually worked. Meaning, a Corp was there, got themselves trained then moved into the rest of MH and had success.
Most of you nerds are all about posting pics and info, dig that one up please. Lets see how PFC has helped a corp.
As many others have noted, there's fundamentally no way for a corp that isn't a top corp to become a top corp as long as all the supposed top tier players take the easy way out and buddy up with other folks that are already at that level. (I have a longstanding belief many of them would be great trainers and platoon leaders that could develop newer players into a fighting force, if they gave it a shot.) But corps exist on activity, the chance to have good fights. PFC allows corps to exist and thrive on the fact that they can play against other corps on PFC. Without having to be able to compete with Ancient Exiles or Nyain San.
I've seen a lot of Renegade Alliance folks suggesting there should be a term limit to being on PFC. But the real question is: How many matches do you think it should take a newer corp to practice in PC before they should be able to compete with AE's A-team? At three matches a week, how long is it going to take?
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1645
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Posted - 2014.03.07 21:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mr Machine Guns wrote:Ok that maybe true but why are you removing a corp from PFC is it because that one policy has been set up and its about having a certain amount of district outside of PFC??
I thought NF received a certain amount of isk every week not just when they need to enforce the rules of NF,
Actually, the Council revised it's financing agreement with N-F since then.
And several rules and policies have been set up. I don't think the Council feels ready to make them a public document yet though.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1646
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Posted - 2014.03.07 21:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mr Machine Guns wrote:your last point makes no sense and you said this before how many do you think you need to be ready for AE. a team? the reason why there needs to be a limit is because PFC is just on one planet maybe if CCP opens up more district we can set up another planet for it, just with the one planet atm is why i believe there needs to be a time limit, One last thing based on your last paragraph why would a corp go after AE. and want to fight their A team that makes no sense would it be wiser to attack a different corp??
Because the way PC mechanics work, if you can't defend your district from an AE A-team, or Nyain San, or ERA, there's really no reason to even be in regular PC, because you won't survive long enough to make a profit.
And PFC can technically expand, the choice to limit it to Oddelulf may be somewhat arbitrary, as district distance isn't that relevant. Though it'd be nice to get everything procedural nailed down before we talk about whether or not PFC should include a second planet.
Would Nyain San like to donate Bosena to PFC? Being next door, it's conveniently located!
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1646
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Posted - 2014.03.07 21:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Well, since Machine Guns suggested a second planet, if his corp would be so kind... we could have Constellation Fight Club. The CFC. in DUST. ;)
^- This is an EVE joke. Some of you will completely miss the humor. I'm sorry for you.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1647
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Posted - 2014.03.07 21:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Noblesse, the issue is, corps with a lot of districts have enough ISK saved up to just reclaim anything they lose shortly after. And the FEC discovered that 4 TeamPlayers can take on a team of 16 poor players pretty well too, so the idea of stacking timers didn't even help them that much. And if they get too burdened, these corps with a large existing pool of districts can afford to take the cost even once district locking gets fixed, of locking up districts for a cost, in order to minimize the threat to a manageable size.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
1658
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Posted - 2014.03.10 12:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
xMaggot Brainx wrote:Tell us some more how NF had nothing to do with this new pfc puppet council...... and the new policing of it.... oops did I say that
Subsonic was clearly refusing to pay the bill. Obviously, particularly with the old financing model, that is a problem for all of PFC. Everyone who didn't pay their bill that week didn't get removed, but Subsonic made a public todo of it, and understandably, that made them the low-hanging fruit.
As an above commenter said: Don't poke the bear.
Subsonic poked the bear. The bear bit their face off.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
1658
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
It's not extortion, it's doing your share. But the point is, WTFA was better at meta than Subsonic. To my knowledge, they never paid the bill either. But they kept quiet, and so they weren't the first targeted. Then when the donations came along, and everyone got a free month, they were kept safe for a month. And still, they never got a chance to get removed for non-payment, they were removed because of a Council resolution.
Basically, WTFA got a free month out of PFC because they knew when to shut up and stay quiet. ;) A lesson that perhaps Subsonic Synthesis members can learn from. ;)
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
1660
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
No, I was just indicating that how you present yourself in public matters. It's really more a common sense thing, but common sense is rare enough that it's a superpower.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
1710
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Posted - 2014.03.13 07:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
MoonEagle A wrote: So you think we should have kept our mouth shut on something we didn't agree with and kept quiet? Where is the honor in that? We stood up for what we believed to be right. We may have lost but at least we stood up for ourselves and stayed true to ourselves. Oh PLEASE tell me someone like you is NOT going to be CPM. Bad enough Spero is one.
I'm saying this is a game of diplomacy and politics. And saying things that make you the first target of the most powerful alliance in the game come after you first is dumb. That's all. If you feel you were "standing up for what's right", and that makes you feel better, that's fine, but the point is, the immediacy of your removal was, in fact, your own fault. In this game, you're responsible for your actions, and the consequences they bring.
^
This is how the game is played. Pretty much everything that happens in the War Room on the forums is called "the metagame". It's a part of the game. And you play it however you choose. This can include being a scumlord, or a charitable person. (Nice people finish last in New Eden, fair warning.)
What you don't seem to understand, is the CPM is not part of the game. Alliances, districts, war, is in-game. CPM is out-of-game. When I point out to you your diplomacy/politics skill is bad, I do so as Soraya Xel, someone who organizes an alliance, and works with a group of dedicated corporate leaders to create the PFC Council. When I run to represent you to CCP, I do so as Jacob Weisz, a mild-mannered tech nerd with an affinity for spreadsheets and pretty graphs. There is a distinct difference that I hope you can learn to appreciate.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
1710
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Posted - 2014.03.13 07:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
I guess I should address this too:
MoonEagle A wrote:I remember when HE wrote the post about contacting CEOs you mentioned somewhere about wanting to be on PFC and voila you are in. You also become one of its cheerleaders. Just to be clear. You Were Not on PFC before Spero claimed it.
I've been on PFC since PFC first existed. I've been on there longer than Subsonic Synthesis by a long shot. (This is a good or bad thing depending how you view PFC, but I just want to be clear on the level of experience and involvement I have with PFC.)
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
1712
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Posted - 2014.03.13 15:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
MoonEagle A wrote:I have read enough of your posts and frankly don't care for you and I can vote if and however I want. I certainly don't need a lecture on someone suggesting I keep my mouth shut.
Again, you can play the game however you want. I'm just suggesting that if you speak up, you should know that makes you a target. So you shouldn't blame others when you become one.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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