DUST Search - An analysis of the GÇÿexpanding the arsenalGÇÖ devblog and TTK in 1.8

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:

Monkey MAC wrote:

Yes Dual-Tanking will be the best option its always been the best option thats why we have brick-tankers since forever.
What I disagree with is your belief that extenders and damage mods should be comparable.
They should not.

With the reduction of damage mods Shield only tanking is viable again, we now need to focus on ways to stop brick tanking, yet still allow dual tanking.

But dual tanking hasn't been better, unless you have a really bad habit of betting ambushed.

Damage mods are only mathematically superior after the suit has 720 EHP, because this is the point at which an extra extender provides less than 10% of your EHP. Generally speaking further damage mods aren't really worthwhile based on that logic, but at a certain point (i.e. 720 EHP) you don't really need much more HP and the little extra bit of gank can be far more useful.

essentially, if you're trying to max out your suit, don't fit more than one damage mod unless you're a heavy.

(I think? Please feel free to judge me harshly if my opinions are incorrect.)

That's pretty much it.
Also, shield extenders can be worth using over damage mods even on heavies when you count resistance bonuses.

Monkey MAC wrote:

It is not my belief that they should be comparable. They just simply are. They directly compete for the same slots and resources, and it often comes down to a choice between one and the other.

How do you define dual tanking differently from brick tanking?


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Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2178	Posted - 2014.03.11 22:28:00 - [1] - Quote While I see your point with the damage mods, at the same time. 1) If Damage Mods provide more power than a shield extender then the shield extender becomes obselete 2) This creates the current shield/armour inbalance because Shield Extender are useless against damage mods, while armour is not. 3) By nerfing Damage Mods shields now become relevamt again, a Shield Tanked suit is now NOT at a disadvantage. 4) HOWEVER gallantean suits need reduced CPU, amd Caldari reduced PG to discourage brick tanking these suits. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2182	Posted - 2014.03.11 23:52:00 - [2] - Quote You see you provided an example of damage mod v Shield extender, which you is biased AGAINST the shield extender. Lets try a few others. Example 1 You are allowed 1H 1L, you may only go tank with your suits tank type. Armour: 1Plate + 1Dmg Mod Shield: 1Extender + any non tank based mod. Winner: Armour Example 2 You are allowed 1H 1L, you may have any mod you like. Winning Combination: 1plate + 1 Dmg Mod So long as a Damage Mod is mathematically equivalent to a Shield Extender, Shield Tanking suits are at a disadvantage. Why? In an armour suit you can have damage + health, in a shield suit you must choose between on or the other, since currently there is no low slot module that provides a bonus that is mathematically equivalent to an armour plate. That is why this patch you have caldari suit stacking as many plates as everyone else. Armour Plate > Lows Shield Extenders = Damage Mods(Highs) Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2183	Posted - 2014.03.12 09:24:00 - [3] - Quote Yes Dual-Tanking will be the best option its always been the best option thats why we have brick-tankers since forever. What I disagree with is your belief that extenders and damage mods should be comparable. They should not. With the reduction of damage mods Shield only tanking is viable again, we now need to focus on ways to stop brick tanking, yet still allow dual tanking. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2188	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:13:00 - [4] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Yes Dual-Tanking will be the best option its always been the best option thats why we have brick-tankers since forever. What I disagree with is your belief that extenders and damage mods should be comparable. They should not. With the reduction of damage mods Shield only tanking is viable again, we now need to focus on ways to stop brick tanking, yet still allow dual tanking. But dual tanking hasn't been better, unless you have a really bad habit of betting ambushed. Damage mods are only mathematically superior after the suit has 720 EHP, because this is the point at which an extra extender provides less than 10% of your EHP. Generally speaking further damage mods aren't really worthwhile based on that logic, but at a certain point (i.e. 720 EHP) you don't really need much more HP and the little extra bit of gank can be far more useful. essentially, if you're trying to max out your suit, don't fit more than one damage mod unless you're a heavy. (I think? Please feel free to judge me harshly if my opinions are incorrect.) That's pretty much it. Also, shield extenders can be worth using over damage mods even on heavies when you count resistance bonuses. Monkey MAC wrote: Yes Dual-Tanking will be the best option its always been the best option thats why we have brick-tankers since forever. What I disagree with is your belief that extenders and damage mods should be comparable. They should not. With the reduction of damage mods Shield only tanking is viable again, we now need to focus on ways to stop brick tanking, yet still allow dual tanking. It is not my belief that they should be comparable. They just simply are. They directly compete for the same slots and resources, and it often comes down to a choice between one and the other. How do you define dual tanking differently from brick tanking? Dual-Tanking is the act of spreading your tank across multiple tank types in order to achieve different positives and negatives to that of a single tank type. Brick-Tanking is an Extreme form of dual-tanking where you stack the maximum amount of EHP modules to obtain the largest possible health. Example. 3H 3L Dual-Tanker: 1x Extender 1x Energizer 1x Damage Mod, 1x Reactive Plate 1x Dampener 1x CodeBreaker Gets different benefits to a Shield Tanker, (higher armour values allow for faster repping with relvant support) Gets different benefits to a Armour Tanker, (higher shields allow for small amount of standalone capability) Gets to use multiple modules to good effect. +25% Dampening +25% Hacking +80% Shield Reps +5% Damage Brick-Tanker: 3x Extender, 3x Armour Plate Aims for absolute maximum EHP, gets no additional benifits still gets amplfied negatives of each tank type. Slow and limited reps, built for singular engagments requires regular support. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.