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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
815
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Posted - 2014.03.07 17:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Proficiency shouldn't increase damage directly, but increase the application of that damage.
AR could perhaps increase range. Rail rifle could decrease kick. Scrambler could decrease heat build up.
Something along those lines. Something that isn't a direct DPS increase, but makes the current DPS it has easier to apply.
Best PVE idea I've seen.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4925
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
Hagintora wrote:Wait, I thought that the CR had the opposite profile of Scr. Wouldn't it be 80% shields 120% armor?
So with Prof at 5 (using current mechanics)
SCR: 138% shields, 80% armor. CR: 80% shields, 138% armor. RR: 90% shields, 126% armor. AR: 126% shields, 90% armor. . Combat Rifle Damage Profile is 95% Shield, 105-110% Armor. Either way it has the best damage profile in the game with no drawback for it.
The SCR can get away with the 80% because of the higher Alpha damage but if you did that with projectiles they'd be hard to penetrate shields.
(not that I care or anything)
1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole -Title Awarded by True Adamance
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4925
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
Hagintora wrote:
That's odd, Why is the CR different from the rest? Shouldn't it be the weakest weapon against shields?
Explosives are the thing that are 80% shields - 120% armor. Or at least it should be. Here's the answers from a Dev Blog
1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole -Title Awarded by True Adamance
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Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
290
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Hagintora wrote:
That's odd, Why is the CR different from the rest? Shouldn't it be the weakest weapon against shields?
Explosives are the thing that are 80% shields - 120% armor. Or at least it should be.
Ya but if they applied that to the CR wouldn't that make it, i don't know, balanced? |
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4926
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Hagintora wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Hagintora wrote:
That's odd, Why is the CR different from the rest? Shouldn't it be the weakest weapon against shields?
Explosives are the thing that are 80% shields - 120% armor. Or at least it should be. Ya but if they applied that to the CR wouldn't that make it, i don't know, balanced? It would certainly be better than this 95%-110% nonsense.
1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole -Title Awarded by True Adamance
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SHANN da MAN
D3LTA FORC3 C0VEN
187
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Proficiency shouldn't increase damage directly, but increase the application of that damage.
AR could perhaps increase range. Rail rifle could decrease kick. Scrambler could decrease heat build up.
Something along those lines. Something that isn't a direct DPS increase, but makes the current DPS it has easier to apply. You've got the intent of my OP ... everyone else is stuck on my (simple, un-thought out) example of a direct swap.
The intent of my OP was to offer a suggestion of a change to make the Proficiency Skill worth spending 1.5 Million SP to Max Skill.
Anything to make a weapon more overall effective would be preferable to the current 1.8 Proficiency Skill.
nothing to see here ... move along
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calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
2071
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
causes more damage....why wouldn't I get this skill? |
SHANN da MAN
D3LTA FORC3 C0VEN
187
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:22:00 -
[38] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:causes more damage....why wouldn't I get this skill? Only causes more damage to your weapon's most effective damage type.
This will not appreciably increase your weapon's overall performance.
Is this REALLY worth spending 1.5 Million SP to Skill up?
nothing to see here ... move along
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J'Hiera
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
58
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:26:00 -
[39] - Quote
Hagintora wrote:
That's odd, Why is the CR different from the rest? Shouldn't it be the weakest weapon against shields?
Not if assuming the CR uses Depleted Uranium for ammunition. In EVE, that is High Explosive, Medium Kinetic and High Thermal damage. Thermal is roughly equal against shields and armor, while Kinetic and Explosive more into armor. Resist mods aside.
The fact that PR is so weak against armor however, makes no sense. It should fire Thermal/Kinetic and be average at both.
But this isnt EVE, so... Just trying to justify the damage profile for the Cr :P
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calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
2072
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
SHANN da MAN wrote:calisk galern wrote:causes more damage....why wouldn't I get this skill? Causes only slightly more damage to your weapon's most effective damage type. This will not appreciably increase your weapon's overall performance. Is this REALLY worth spending 1.5 Million SP to Skill up?
when you have 40 million sp you'd be surprised what you find worth spending sp on |
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SHANN da MAN
D3LTA FORC3 C0VEN
188
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:SHANN da MAN wrote:calisk galern wrote:causes more damage....why wouldn't I get this skill? Causes only slightly more damage to your weapon's most effective damage type. This will not appreciably increase your weapon's overall performance. Is this REALLY worth spending 1.5 Million SP to Skill up? when you have 40 million sp you'd be surprised what you find worth spending sp on Well, you are the exception ... MOST players in this game have less than half the SP you do ... and spending a month's worth of SP on a marginally effective skill is probably out of their reach when there are so many more skills that produce a better effect per SP spent
nothing to see here ... move along
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Ld Collins
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
119
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:33:00 -
[42] - Quote
SHANN da MAN wrote:CCP made their Proficiency Skill the wrong way. Instead of increasing the strongest damage type of the weapon, Proficiency should increase the weakest damage type.
Example : ScR Damage 120% Shield - 80% Armor Prof 5 increases Shield Damage : ScR Damage 135% Shield - 80% Armor
Prof 5 SHOULD increase Armor : ScR Damage 120% Shield - 95% Armor
To become Proficient in something is to overcome its weakness ... this should mean that Proficiency Skill would increase a weapons weaker Damage type to make the soldier more deadly.
As the Proficiency Skill exists in 1.8 there is really no reason to skill into it ... (in the example above) the shields will already be depleted very rapidly with the base Damage of 120% ... increasing the damage vs. shields will have little effect on the weapon's overall performance.
This leaves little to no reason for someone to Skill into a weapon's Proficiency, other than being required to be able to equip PROTO/Officer Weapons, as little to no benefit becomes of it.
If Proficiency Skill improved the weapon's WEAKER Damage type there would be incentive for people to skill as high as they could in a weapon's Proficiency, as it would greatly improve the weapon's overall performance. Proficiency or being proficienct doesnt mean you're better at what you aren't good at. Proficiency is more of honing or enchancing your skills that you are good at. Setting things up this way allows mercs to make fits to counter other damage types more effectively. In 1.7 you couldnt shielf tank against a CBR user and you couldnt Armor tank against a RR. This became so apparent that heavies just started picking up RR CBR and SCR. Lets see how things play out before we make up our minds. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
2072
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
SHANN da MAN wrote:calisk galern wrote:SHANN da MAN wrote:calisk galern wrote:causes more damage....why wouldn't I get this skill? Causes only slightly more damage to your weapon's most effective damage type. This will not appreciably increase your weapon's overall performance. Is this REALLY worth spending 1.5 Million SP to Skill up? when you have 40 million sp you'd be surprised what you find worth spending sp on Well, you are the exception ... MOST players in this game have less than half the SP you do ... and spending a month's worth of SP on a marginally effective skill is probably out of their reach when there are so many more skills that produce a better effect per SP spent
but eventually that won't be the case, the beauty of the sp system is it never stops.
sure i'll agree these skills should not be on the top of your list, but they will be on their somewhere. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
290
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:42:00 -
[44] - Quote
J'Hiera wrote:Hagintora wrote:
That's odd, Why is the CR different from the rest? Shouldn't it be the weakest weapon against shields?
Not if assuming the CR uses Depleted Uranium for ammunition. In EVE, that is High Explosive, Medium Kinetic and High Thermal damage. Thermal is roughly equal against shields and armor, while Kinetic and Explosive more into armor. Resist mods aside. The fact that PR is so weak against armor however, makes no sense. It should fire Thermal/Kinetic and be average at both. But this isnt EVE, so... Just trying to justify the damage profile for the Cr :P
I appreciate the attempt at justification, as I'm unfamiliar with EVE, but as you said, this isn't EVE. I can't help feeling that changing the profile of the CR to 80% shields and 120% armor would be a better qay to balance the weapon. |
SILVERBACK 02
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
509
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:46:00 -
[45] - Quote
he makes a perfectly valid point perhaps they will introduce a branching skill tree that splits off simliar to this skill tree shown below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEGtHe9eGLU
would be awsome
level 0 forum warrior
weapon of choice:
MARK V PYTHON.
-STB sky marshall
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2172
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Posted - 2014.03.07 18:51:00 -
[46] - Quote
No, it works better this way, it encourages diversity in play and squads. If you have a guy with a Scrambler you are best of giving him rail or projectile tech friends.
You will get people workimg on specific tank types. Amarr will become the bane of caldari, gallante of Amarr, and Minmatar of Gallante, while caldari slaughter minmatar. Removing the penalties is a bad idea as it allows for the weapon to be used against any tank type.
Which in relaity completly nullifies the point of having different tank types, we might as well just give everyone health. Leave it as it is and watch as people play more varied fits.
The only thing I would do is change the projectile to do -20% to shields and +20% to armour (effectively make explosives/projectile the same damage type) otherwise those ACRs are getting to good an advantage to pass up.
125% on Armour 95% on Shields at prof 5
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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The Terminator T-1000
Skynet Incorporated
186
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Posted - 2014.03.07 19:16:00 -
[47] - Quote
I want all my prof SP back! |
Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION
166
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Posted - 2014.03.08 05:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
SHANN da MAN wrote:CCP made their Proficiency Skill the wrong way. Instead of increasing the strongest damage type of the weapon, Proficiency should increase the weakest damage type.
Example : ScR Damage 120% Shield - 80% Armor Prof 5 increases Shield Damage : ScR Damage 135% Shield - 80% Armor
Prof 5 SHOULD increase Armor : ScR Damage 120% Shield - 95% Armor
To become Proficient in something is to overcome its weakness ... this should mean that Proficiency Skill would increase a weapons weaker Damage type to make the soldier more deadly.
As the Proficiency Skill exists in 1.8 there is really no reason to skill into it ... (in the example above) the shields will already be depleted very rapidly with the base Damage of 120% ... increasing the damage vs. shields will have little effect on the weapon's overall performance.
This leaves little to no reason for someone to Skill into a weapon's Proficiency, other than being required to be able to equip PROTO/Officer Weapons, as little to no benefit becomes of it.
If Proficiency Skill improved the weapon's WEAKER Damage type there would be incentive for people to skill as high as they could in a weapon's Proficiency, as it would greatly improve the weapon's overall performance. Overall, No. Why? it's really quite simple. If this were the case, people would cry for nerfs.
It would make every weapon the same, except for playstyle. That's exactly how it'd end up. We'd end up with the longest range weapon with the fastest shooting gun at the top, and everthing else underneath. Specialization factor would suck. People would all end up using the same weapon.
I don't know about you but i don't want to run into a team where every person is using parallel weapons. Facing off with Full RR teams right now is horrible. I couldn't imagine it if it damaged shields like it does armor. It'd suck!
But hey if you want everybody using the same weapon maybe they should look at your idea. If you don't, then -1.
-1.
-Sor.
Click Here to set up a Character that will get an AR, SMG, and a Caldari BPO
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Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION
166
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Posted - 2014.03.08 05:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
SHANN da MAN wrote:calisk galern wrote:SHANN da MAN wrote:calisk galern wrote:causes more damage....why wouldn't I get this skill? Causes only slightly more damage to your weapon's most effective damage type. This will not appreciably increase your weapon's overall performance. Is this REALLY worth spending 1.5 Million SP to Skill up? when you have 40 million sp you'd be surprised what you find worth spending sp on Well, you are the exception ... MOST players in this game have less than half the SP you do ... and spending a month's worth of SP on a marginally effective skill is probably out of their reach when there are so many more skills that produce a better effect per SP spent you do realize that proficiency is a specialization skill. Specialized players can do amazing around 10M, with dedicated SP into a certain build/Certain Weapon. Ex: Amarr Sentinel Lvl 5 armor 5 shield 5 hmg 5 prof 5. all at 10m sp. plus other skills.
Click Here to set up a Character that will get an AR, SMG, and a Caldari BPO
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
1986
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Posted - 2014.03.08 05:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
I'm taking prof straight to four.
Probably never taking it to 5.
After all, Fitting Opt = 5 PG.
Assault ak.0 w/ScR+ScP 4LYFE
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