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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
524
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Posted - 2014.03.06 01:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
The first problem is that EVE classifies weapon types as Energy, Hybrid, Projectile, and Missile, and those weapon types do some damage type of some combination of EM, Thermal, Kinetic, and Explosive. The translation to DUST was needlessly changed so that weapon types are Laser, Hybrid (split into Plasma and Rail), Projectile, and Explosive, and those weapons have a set effectiveness against shields and armor.
In EVE, just over half of the Caldari ships are bonused for missiles. Most Minmatar ships are bonused for projectiles, with a good number bonused for missiles. The problem caused by the poor translation from EVE to DUST of weapon types and damage types is that you have things like the Mass Driver being classified as an explosive weapon, when it's clearly a projectile (it's not self-propelled) weapon that does explosive damage. You get things like the Minmatar Commando getting bonuses to explosive weapons, i.e. the Swarm Launcher, a Caldari weapon, instead of getting bonuses to explosive damage and using explosive ammo with the Swarm Launcher.
To your thread title, missile launchers tend to go to Caldari, with Minmatar in second, Amarr in a distant third, and Gallente in an even more distant fourth with a small handful of missile bonused ships. I see no reason DUST shouldn't follow this precedent.
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
524
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Posted - 2014.03.06 02:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:No.......Minmatar might to convention explosives and weaponry, but the Caldari have mastered missile tech.
The Breacher, Talwar, Bellicose, Fleet Scythe, Typhoon, Fleet Typhoon, and Claymore (basically like all the Core Complexion ships) beg to differ. It's not that clear cut in EVE anymore and hasn't been for a while.
Auris Lionesse wrote:
Drones and hybrid = gallente
Missiles and hybrid = caldari
Projectiles and artillery = minmatar
lasers = amarr
If you're not familiar with EVE, Auris' description is misleading at best and doesn't give you the whole picture. His post is based on EVE precedent, and should look more like this. What I have below is much more descriptive and paints a much more complete picture.
 Amarr - Primarily Energy (Pulse / Beam) > some T2 ships (Khanid) primarily to Missiles > and a small handful of ships to Drones
Primary EWAR is Tracking disruption, with a secondary to Cap warfare
Fleet support bonus is to Armor (Armor tanking, reps) and Info (EWAR effectiveness, sensors, etc.)
Defense tends to improve armor resists
Caldari - Leans more to Missiles (Short i.e. Torpedoes / Long i.e. Cruise) > Close second is Hybrid (Blaster / Rail), preference for Rails
Primary EWAR is ECM, with a secondary to even more rage inducing ECM
Fleet support bonus is to Siege (Shield tanking, reps) and Info (EWAR effectiveness, sensors, etc.)
Defense tends to improve shield resists
Gallente - Leans more to Hybrids (Blaster / Rail), preference to Blaster > Close second is Drones
Primary EWAR is Sensor Damps, with a secondary to Warp Disruption range
Fleet support bonus is to Armor (Armor tanking, reps) and Skirmish (going fast, long range interdiction)
Defense tends to improve armor repair amount
Minmatar - Preference to Projectiles (Autocannon / Artillery) > Second is Missiles
Primary EWAR is Target Painting, with a secondary to Stasis Webifier range
Fleet support bonus is to Siege (Shield tanking, reps) and Skirmish (going fast, long range interdiction)
Defense tends to improve shield boost amount
So you can see it's not quite as clear cut as "Are missile launchers Minmatar or Caldari?" Traditionally, missile have been a Caldari weapon. Over time as EVE evolved, more Hybrid options were given to Caldari players and more Missile options were given to Minmatar players. This is simply one more way that DUST should follow the amazing success laid out for it in EVE.
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
525
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 02:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:No. BecauseGǪ lore.
You're wrong.
Edit: BecauseGǪ lore.
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
529
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Posted - 2014.03.06 12:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Yes, but right now, for lack of a better knowledge, and for current use in DUST, Missiles= Caldari, Projectile=Minmatar.
No need to quote the entire wall of text to respond, at all.
Like I said of Auris' description, this one is blatantly wrong. There are no weapons systems in DUST that are 'Missiles.' You have Laser, Hybrid (split into Plasma and Rail), Projectile, and Explosive. What we think of as missiles fall under the Explosive category, i.e. Swarm Launchers and Flaylock Pistol. Somethings we don't think of as missiles belong in the Explosive category, too, like Mass Driver (we can't just call it a grenade launcher?)
If your post were to be accurate by current DUST standards, it would say Hybrid Rail= Caldari, Projectile/Explosive=Minmatar. Show me Caldari anything that's bonused for Explosive weapons. You can't, because there's not, which is one reason we should reclassify weapons in DUST how they are in EVE, by Energy, Hybrid, Projectile, and Missile, and do damage type like in EVE, EM, Thermal, Kinetic, and Explosive.
KalOfTheRathi wrote:EVE lore does not always translate to Dust514 directly. They are getting closer from what I understand but one should never expect a perfect connection. This is an FPS after all. Not a point and click space battle spreadsheet.
The lore needs to translate a hundred percent. The actual mechanics are what need to be modified to work in an FPS environment.
True Adamance wrote:When I see missiles used in by those ships in FW I'll let you know.
Did you have to quote all of that just to say you don't personally see missile ships other than Caldari flying around in FW? Maybe you don't do much FW. The ships I listed only use missiles (except the FleetPhoon uses missiles in addition to Projectiles and Drones.) If you've never seen a Talwar gang in FW, that's not my problem.
Also, all the Khanid ships use missiles. I forgot to mention them in my other post in direct response to you, but mentioned them in the big picture of EVE.
EVE is defined outside of your apparently limited experience with what you fight against in FW.
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
529
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Posted - 2014.03.06 16:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Gallente and missiles? Wrong.
Missile slots on a few frigates just to have a missile frigate for all the races doesn't count. Gallente don't focus on missiles.
If you took away from my post that Gallente favor missiles, then you either have serious reading comprehension problems, or did not read my post. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with 'you did not read.'
The OP wants to know if missile launchers in DUST should be Caldari or Minmatar. Missiles are typically Caldari, as I said, but they are classified in DUST as Explosive weapons, and the Caldari have no bonuses for them. That's a reason to have DUST weapon and damage types follow the pattern established in EVE. It works.
The OP said the reason he wanted to know that is because the Gallente Dropship is the closest in the game to a Minmatar dropship. I'm not sure why he thinks that. That's a reason for racial parity ASAP.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
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