https://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/03/expanding-the-arsenal-with-uprising-1.8/

CCP is reducing enhanced/complex damage mod multipliers (from 5% and 10% to 4% and 5%, respectively) to extend TTK. While the goal is noble, the unintended consequences are AV is also getting nerfed by this.

With the goal of extending TTK, the proficiency skill will now only affect damage on either shield or amour.

Forge guns with 1 complex damage mod now do 5% less damage to armor, and up to 20% less (at level 5 proficiency) to shield.

Forge guns with 2 complex damage mods (excluding the stacking penalty, which is somewhere in the 10-20% range, but never fully confirmed by CCP) will now do 10% less damage to armor, and up to 25% less (at level 5 proficiency) to shield.

As if this wasn't enough, you get 1 less grenade per suit (ie: if you got 3 before, you now get 2), once again, with the intention of extending suit TTK. Of course, this will just gimp the already pathetic AV nades even more. I'm fairly certain you cannot kill most untanked LAVs that are standing still (Quite honestly, the easiest target an AV nade will ever hit) with 2 enhanced PACKED AV nades, yet along a tank. Even in 1.7 AV nades need a nanohive to be of any real use, in 1.8, they will become a requirement to kill the lowliest of the low.

While I do applaud the extended TTK for troops, the already paltry AV options in 1.7, are becoming, well, more ridiculous.

GOOD! look at the stats a proto forge guner with 3 complex damage mod EQUALS dead tank before if knows what happens. im not a tanker anymore and I think this is needed its not the avs that needs fixing its just the milita tanks and milita tank mods that need to be fix.

If you look at the stats you'll see that a high SP tanker can run constant hardeners, or alternatively have more than one on standby to activate when things get hot, reducing damage to almost zero. So no, a proto forge gunner does not mean a dead tank, not even close. Even two proto FGers struggle to take out a well built and well piloted tank. Swarms and AV grenades are even worse - much, much worse. But bring in one rail tank and that tanker is dead in a minute.

The impotence of AV is obvious to everyone, yet CCP nerf it even more..

https://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/03/expanding-the-arsenal-with-uprising-1.8/

CCP is reducing enhanced/complex damage mod multipliers (from 5% and 10% to 4% and 5%, respectively) to extend TTK. While the goal is noble, the unintended consequences are AV is also getting nerfed by this.

With the goal of extending TTK, the proficiency skill will now only affect damage on either shield or amour.

Forge guns with 1 complex damage mod now do 5% less damage to armor, and up to 20% less (at level 5 proficiency) to shield.

Forge guns with 2 complex damage mods (excluding the stacking penalty, which is somewhere in the 10-20% range, but never fully confirmed by CCP) will now do 10% less damage to armor, and up to 25% less (at level 5 proficiency) to shield.

As if this wasn't enough, you get 1 less grenade per suit (ie: if you got 3 before, you now get 2), once again, with the intention of extending suit TTK. Of course, this will just gimp the already pathetic AV nades even more. I'm fairly certain you cannot kill most untanked LAVs that are standing still (Quite honestly, the easiest target an AV nade will ever hit) with 2 enhanced PACKED AV nades, yet along a tank. Even in 1.7 AV nades need a nanohive to be of any real use, in 1.8, they will become a requirement to kill the lowliest of the low.

While I do applaud the extended TTK for troops, the already paltry AV options in 1.7, are becoming, well, more ridiculous.

Sorry, got to call you out on this one.

A proto forge gunner, with 3 complex damage mods, will take a huge chunk of a gunnlogi shield, and certainly get the notice of a madrudger. With hardeners, hardener, respectively.

A gunnlogi, using just ONE hardener against a forge gun is going to have a bad time. With 2 up, you can at least mitigate some of the damage, and eat maybe 5 shots before needing to recharge shields.

And really, I don't think that SP makes as much a difference as you think. A milita tank reminded me of that last evening. No hardeners up, and 2 shots. With skills, the only advantage I hold over one is that extra slot and 6 extra seconds on my hardener. I guess a pro turret makes a difference, but I don't notice when facing sica's with stacked damage mods.

2 shots and I'm dead, how pathetic.

You forget that Vehicles are going to be tuned in 1.8 as well, Young one. They're changing repair rates around.

You forget that Vehicles are going to be tuned in 1.8 as well, Young one. They're changing repair rates around.

Have they mentioned this? If so, linky?

I'd like to see a forge gunner use 3 complex mods, as currently no heavy suit (required to field a forge gun) has more than 2 high slots.....clearly your experience in heavies using forge guns is quite extensive *tongue in cheek*

Also, last time I checked, a forge gun needs to reload after 4 shots, meaning that during that reload phase, the gunloggi's shields will be recharging (after the delay of course, which is less than the time to reload and refire a forge gun).

https://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/03/expanding-the-arsenal-with-uprising-1.8/

CCP is reducing enhanced/complex damage mod multipliers (from 5% and 10% to 4% and 5%, respectively) to extend TTK. While the goal is noble, the unintended consequences are AV is also getting nerfed by this.

With the goal of extending TTK, the proficiency skill will now only affect damage on either shield or amour.

Forge guns with 1 complex damage mod now do 5% less damage to armor, and up to 20% less (at level 5 proficiency) to shield.

Forge guns with 2 complex damage mods (excluding the stacking penalty, which is somewhere in the 10-20% range, but never fully confirmed by CCP) will now do 10% less damage to armor, and up to 25% less (at level 5 proficiency) to shield.

As if this wasn't enough, you get 1 less grenade per suit (ie: if you got 3 before, you now get 2), once again, with the intention of extending suit TTK. Of course, this will just gimp the already pathetic AV nades even more. I'm fairly certain you cannot kill most untanked LAVs that are standing still (Quite honestly, the easiest target an AV nade will ever hit) with 2 enhanced PACKED AV nades, yet along a tank. Even in 1.7 AV nades need a nanohive to be of any real use, in 1.8, they will become a requirement to kill the lowliest of the low.

While I do applaud the extended TTK for troops, the already paltry AV options in 1.7, are becoming, well, more ridiculous.

You forget that Vehicles are going to be tuned in 1.8 as well, Young one. They're changing repair rates around.

Please.....Shut up.
Tired of ******* bullshit said in this thread just to make lot of useless posts.

1.8 is also a Vehicule Revamp and Balance. (Huge nerf to vehicules).
So....WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT AV POWER WITHOUT EVEN KNOW THE VEHICULES POWER THESELVES ????????

OMAGAD this thread is just totally non-sense.
Someone is whining about RUMORS......

While I am fully in support of the fix to damage mods, and in fact adamently believe it is long overdue, it is still worth noting that a side effect of it will be a further nerf to the effective power of infantry based AV weapons. The Forge, Swarm, and Plasma were already in a rough spot under 1.7. Or to be more blunt the AV value of the Plasma was essentially nil, the swarms were of minimal value (even at proto level against MLT fit HAVs) and the Forge could do some work but leaned heavily on the use of damage mods. With this change even those effects are going to be undercut and CCP would do well to consider some polish on the AV weapons to make them more effective in light of the damage mod fix.

After all right now you can run certain HAV fits which are less expensive (in both ISK and SP) than an AV Forge fit.

Please.....Shut up.
Tired of ******* bullshit said in this thread just to make lot of useless posts.

1.8 is also a Vehicule Revamp and Balance. (Huge nerf to vehicules).
So....WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT AV POWER WITHOUT EVEN KNOW THE VEHICULES POWER THESELVES ????????

OMAGAD this thread is just totally non-sense.
Someone is whining about RUMORS......

I specced into tanks a long time ago, that is my primary anti vehicle method.

as for other av methods, I believe they are removing sticky remotes, so no more jihads, or RE's as a vehicle counter, no more av grenades, weaker swarms, and weaker forge guns.

good luck with tank bush, if they nerf rail guns I may as well stop playing for 3 months because it's going be nothing but blaster tanks, and no way to deal with them.

Why is everyone dancing around the real question for 1.8? Will we be able to sit on our couch?