DUST Search - AV Nerf in 1.8- Really CCP?

Dustbunny Durrr wrote:

Tebu Gan wrote:

Ryme Intrinseca wrote:

jaksol returns wrote:

Dustbunny Durrr wrote:

https://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/03/expanding-the-arsenal-with-uprising-1.8/

CCP is reducing enhanced/complex damage mod multipliers (from 5% and 10% to 4% and 5%, respectively) to extend TTK. While the goal is noble, the unintended consequences are AV is also getting nerfed by this.

With the goal of extending TTK, the proficiency skill will now only affect damage on either shield or amour.

Forge guns with 1 complex damage mod now do 5% less damage to armor, and up to 20% less (at level 5 proficiency) to shield.

Forge guns with 2 complex damage mods (excluding the stacking penalty, which is somewhere in the 10-20% range, but never fully confirmed by CCP) will now do 10% less damage to armor, and up to 25% less (at level 5 proficiency) to shield.

As if this wasn't enough, you get 1 less grenade per suit (ie: if you got 3 before, you now get 2), once again, with the intention of extending suit TTK. Of course, this will just gimp the already pathetic AV nades even more. I'm fairly certain you cannot kill most untanked LAVs that are standing still (Quite honestly, the easiest target an AV nade will ever hit) with 2 enhanced PACKED AV nades, yet along a tank. Even in 1.7 AV nades need a nanohive to be of any real use, in 1.8, they will become a requirement to kill the lowliest of the low.

While I do applaud the extended TTK for troops, the already paltry AV options in 1.7, are becoming, well, more ridiculous.

GOOD! look at the stats a proto forge guner with 3 complex damage mod EQUALS dead tank before if knows what happens. im not a tanker anymore and I think this is needed its not the avs that needs fixing its just the milita tanks and milita tank mods that need to be fix.

If you look at the stats you'll see that a high SP tanker can run constant hardeners, or alternatively have more than one on standby to activate when things get hot, reducing damage to almost zero. So no, a proto forge gunner does not mean a dead tank, not even close. Even two proto FGers struggle to take out a well built and well piloted tank. Swarms and AV grenades are even worse - much, much worse. But bring in one rail tank and that tanker is dead in a minute.

The impotence of AV is obvious to everyone, yet CCP nerf it even more..

Sorry, got to call you out on this one.

A proto forge gunner, with 3 complex damage mods, will take a huge chunk of a gunnlogi shield, and certainly get the notice of a madrudger. With hardeners, hardener, respectively.

A gunnlogi, using just ONE hardener against a forge gun is going to have a bad time. With 2 up, you can at least mitigate some of the damage, and eat maybe 5 shots before needing to recharge shields.

And really, I don't think that SP makes as much a difference as you think. A milita tank reminded me of that last evening. No hardeners up, and 2 shots. With skills, the only advantage I hold over one is that extra slot and 6 extra seconds on my hardener. I guess a pro turret makes a difference, but I don't notice when facing sica's with stacked damage mods.

2 shots and I'm dead, how pathetic.

I'd like to see a forge gunner use 3 complex mods, as currently no heavy suit (required to field a forge gun) has more than 2 high slots.....clearly your experience in heavies using forge guns is quite extensive *tongue in cheek*

Also, last time I checked, a forge gun needs to reload after 4 shots, meaning that during that reload phase, the gunloggi's shields will be recharging (after the delay of course, which is less than the time to reload and refire a forge gun).


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Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 869	Posted - 2014.03.06 10:33:00 - [1] - Quote jaksol returns wrote: Dustbunny Durrr wrote: https://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/03/expanding-the-arsenal-with-uprising-1.8/ CCP is reducing enhanced/complex damage mod multipliers (from 5% and 10% to 4% and 5%, respectively) to extend TTK. While the goal is noble, the unintended consequences are AV is also getting nerfed by this. With the goal of extending TTK, the proficiency skill will now only affect damage on either shield or amour. Forge guns with 1 complex damage mod now do 5% less damage to armor, and up to 20% less (at level 5 proficiency) to shield. Forge guns with 2 complex damage mods (excluding the stacking penalty, which is somewhere in the 10-20% range, but never fully confirmed by CCP) will now do 10% less damage to armor, and up to 25% less (at level 5 proficiency) to shield. As if this wasn't enough, you get 1 less grenade per suit (ie: if you got 3 before, you now get 2), once again, with the intention of extending suit TTK. Of course, this will just gimp the already pathetic AV nades even more. I'm fairly certain you cannot kill most untanked LAVs that are standing still (Quite honestly, the easiest target an AV nade will ever hit) with 2 enhanced PACKED AV nades, yet along a tank. Even in 1.7 AV nades need a nanohive to be of any real use, in 1.8, they will become a requirement to kill the lowliest of the low. While I do applaud the extended TTK for troops, the already paltry AV options in 1.7, are becoming, well, more ridiculous. GOOD! look at the stats a proto forge guner with 3 complex damage mod EQUALS dead tank before if knows what happens. im not a tanker anymore and I think this is needed its not the avs that needs fixing its just the milita tanks and milita tank mods that need to be fix. If you look at the stats you'll see that a high SP tanker can run constant hardeners, or alternatively have more than one on standby to activate when things get hot, reducing damage to almost zero. So no, a proto forge gunner does not mean a dead tank, not even close. Even two proto FGers struggle to take out a well built and well piloted tank. Swarms and AV grenades are even worse - much, much worse. But bring in one rail tank and that tanker is dead in a minute. The impotence of AV is obvious to everyone, yet CCP nerf it even more..
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 875	Posted - 2014.03.07 09:38:00 - [2] - Quote Dustbunny Durrr wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: jaksol returns wrote: Dustbunny Durrr wrote: https://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/03/expanding-the-arsenal-with-uprising-1.8/ CCP is reducing enhanced/complex damage mod multipliers (from 5% and 10% to 4% and 5%, respectively) to extend TTK. While the goal is noble, the unintended consequences are AV is also getting nerfed by this. With the goal of extending TTK, the proficiency skill will now only affect damage on either shield or amour. Forge guns with 1 complex damage mod now do 5% less damage to armor, and up to 20% less (at level 5 proficiency) to shield. Forge guns with 2 complex damage mods (excluding the stacking penalty, which is somewhere in the 10-20% range, but never fully confirmed by CCP) will now do 10% less damage to armor, and up to 25% less (at level 5 proficiency) to shield. As if this wasn't enough, you get 1 less grenade per suit (ie: if you got 3 before, you now get 2), once again, with the intention of extending suit TTK. Of course, this will just gimp the already pathetic AV nades even more. I'm fairly certain you cannot kill most untanked LAVs that are standing still (Quite honestly, the easiest target an AV nade will ever hit) with 2 enhanced PACKED AV nades, yet along a tank. Even in 1.7 AV nades need a nanohive to be of any real use, in 1.8, they will become a requirement to kill the lowliest of the low. While I do applaud the extended TTK for troops, the already paltry AV options in 1.7, are becoming, well, more ridiculous. GOOD! look at the stats a proto forge guner with 3 complex damage mod EQUALS dead tank before if knows what happens. im not a tanker anymore and I think this is needed its not the avs that needs fixing its just the milita tanks and milita tank mods that need to be fix. If you look at the stats you'll see that a high SP tanker can run constant hardeners, or alternatively have more than one on standby to activate when things get hot, reducing damage to almost zero. So no, a proto forge gunner does not mean a dead tank, not even close. Even two proto FGers struggle to take out a well built and well piloted tank. Swarms and AV grenades are even worse - much, much worse. But bring in one rail tank and that tanker is dead in a minute. The impotence of AV is obvious to everyone, yet CCP nerf it even more.. Sorry, got to call you out on this one. A proto forge gunner, with 3 complex damage mods, will take a huge chunk of a gunnlogi shield, and certainly get the notice of a madrudger. With hardeners, hardener, respectively. A gunnlogi, using just ONE hardener against a forge gun is going to have a bad time. With 2 up, you can at least mitigate some of the damage, and eat maybe 5 shots before needing to recharge shields. And really, I don't think that SP makes as much a difference as you think. A milita tank reminded me of that last evening. No hardeners up, and 2 shots. With skills, the only advantage I hold over one is that extra slot and 6 extra seconds on my hardener. I guess a pro turret makes a difference, but I don't notice when facing sica's with stacked damage mods. 2 shots and I'm dead, how pathetic. I'd like to see a forge gunner use 3 complex mods, as currently no heavy suit (required to field a forge gun) has more than 2 high slots.....clearly your experience in heavies using forge guns is quite extensive tongue in cheek Also, last time I checked, a forge gun needs to reload after 4 shots, meaning that during that reload phase, the gunloggi's shields will be recharging (after the delay of course, which is less than the time to reload and refire a forge gun). Exactly. 5 shots is absolutely ridiculous. Any competent pilot will take their tank behind cover or out of range before even the third shot can hit; the idea that they'll still be hanging around after the FGer has unloaded a full clip and reloaded is laughable. If proto AV with max damage mods only has a chance where the tanker has gone out of the room to get a drink there is something seriously wrong.