DUST Search - The Amarr Assault : a focused examination.

Mordecai Sanguine wrote:

Talos Alomar wrote:

So the Amarr Assault suit is being changed to be armor centric. I'm sure the RP'ers out there love the fact the amarr suits are going to be armor focused just like the ships, but IMO it will leave the AA in a really odd place.

It's now a dedicated armor suit, but the slot layout hasn't been changed.

When the AA was a hybrid tanker and damage mods were still at 10%, having the slot layout as it is gave the AA flexibility. It could put on the best buffer a medium suit could imagine or stack armor and do crazy damage.

Now the AA is just going to be gimped. Lets compare it to the Gallente assault for armor tanking potential.

at standard, the AA has 1 low slot. The GA has 3. That's two plates and a repper, plus native regen. How the hell is the Amarr suit supposed to compete with that?

What could be put into those high slots that would balance that out?

I'm not touching the fact that the amarr suits are still down a slot compared to other races, it's more a matter of usable slots. High slots have way less utility than low for an armor tanker.

What should happen is that the H/L layout for std and militia suits need to be swapped. so the amarr suit has 1/2 at standard and 0/2 at militia. Because an amarr suit with 2 high slots on an armor suit is basically telling newbies to go **** themselves if they pick amarr.

Having an overabundance of high slots with new new changes might be more useful than I believe, but it'll be a hard sell.

The problem is than CCP REALLY think than giving 30 more armor base ehp make the Amarr an armor brick unit Roll

And they sacrifice a slot for these ****** 30ehp......

Gallente are the SAME than Amarr but faster with native regen (save a lsot) and almost the same ehp (30ehp...).
Amarr needs way more ehp in armor since they must waste a slot if they want repair while gallente can just stack armor and then having better results than amarr WITH a regen.


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Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3718	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:34:00 - [1] - Quote They really needed to give medium suit slots a "balance" pass when they were redoing the other suits. Their current philosophy on Sentinels, Commandos, and Scouts is for absolute balance in slots across the races, with no exceptions. Every race's High Slots + Low Slots = Any other race at the same level. The suits are defined more by other differences like internal reps, hacking bonuses, and speed (bad for Amarr Scouts). Amarr suits got a hard shift from dual-tank to high-hp armor tank. Given all that, I think I "will" touch the balance issue that Talos did not. Medium Suits had the same hp adjustment as the other ones, but no slot changes. The slots BEFORE this were problematic, in that Amarr were down a slot every level AND they were also slanted towards high slots (even with an armor-tanking reputation then as well). Medium suits have received similar shifts as the other suits as well. Gallente suits have innate armor reps. Minmatar suits ALL have a hacking bonuses. Despite this balancing element, the Amarr are still shorted a slot. The current "slot" allotment for medium/assault frames is generally: MLT: 3 STD: 4 ADV: 5 PRO: 7 The Amarr are shorted one across the board on the Assault frames: A-MLT: 2 ****** 2H 0L A-STD: 3 **** 2H 1L A-ADV: 4 **** 2H 2L A-PRO: 6 **** 3H 3L The build here is slanted towards high slots as well, and then even/dual tank afterwards. So there's an unholy combination of an awkward slot layout for armor tanking (until PRO, where it's... serviceable?), and a slot shortage. My suggestion would be to give the Amarr medium frames their missing slot, and reapportion slots to be more appropriate for an armor tank (note, they could also just copy the Gallente layout as they have on some other frames): A-MLT: 3 **** 1H 2L A-STD: 4 **** 1H 3L A-ADV: 5 **** 1H 4L A-PRO: 7 **** 2H 5L Note that the Logis are a different matter entirely, and that's not necessarily an Amarr balance problem. Logi Slots (H + L + E):** STD: A:6 (2/2/2) C:5 (2/1/2) G:5 (0/2/3) M:7 (2/2/3) ADV: A:9 (3/3/3) C:8 (3/2/3) G:8 (2/3/3) M:9 (3/3/3) PRO: A:10 (3/4/3) C:12 (5/4/3) G:12 (3/5/4) M:12 (4/4/4) This ignores the Sidearm slot on the Amarr (which seems stupid, really, and without the innate reps or repper bonus, the Amarr Logi has no claim to "assault"-anything). Even so, the Amarr comes out ahead on slots compared to Caldari/Gallente at STD and ADV, then takes a big hit vs. the other suits at PRO. Both the Amarr and the Caldari also now suffer the issue of having the same number of equipment slots as scouts at STD. Ouch. These differences were begging for a balance change, but they didn't get one. The Amarr is behind with Assault, but.. kinda ahead with at STD/ADV with logi... then behind again at PRO. This needed a balance pass CCP, badly. You shouldn't have adjusted stats while ignoring slots. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3727	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:10:00 - [2] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Talos Alomar wrote: So the Amarr Assault suit is being changed to be armor centric. I'm sure the RP'ers out there love the fact the amarr suits are going to be armor focused just like the ships, but IMO it will leave the AA in a really odd place. It's now a dedicated armor suit, but the slot layout hasn't been changed. When the AA was a hybrid tanker and damage mods were still at 10%, having the slot layout as it is gave the AA flexibility. It could put on the best buffer a medium suit could imagine or stack armor and do crazy damage. Now the AA is just going to be gimped. Lets compare it to the Gallente assault for armor tanking potential. at standard, the AA has 1 low slot. The GA has 3. That's two plates and a repper, plus native regen. How the hell is the Amarr suit supposed to compete with that? What could be put into those high slots that would balance that out? I'm not touching the fact that the amarr suits are still down a slot compared to other races, it's more a matter of usable slots. High slots have way less utility than low for an armor tanker. What should happen is that the H/L layout for std and militia suits need to be swapped. so the amarr suit has 1/2 at standard and 0/2 at militia. Because an amarr suit with 2 high slots on an armor suit is basically telling newbies to go ** themselves if they pick amarr. Having an overabundance of high slots with new new changes might be more useful than I believe, but it'll be a hard sell. The problem is than CCP REALLY think than giving 30 more armor base ehp make the Amarr an armor brick unit And they sacrifice a slot for these **** 30ehp...... Gallente are the SAME than Amarr but faster with native regen (save a lsot) and almost the same ehp (30ehp...). Amarr needs way more ehp in armor since they must waste a slot if they want repair while gallente can just stack armor and then having better results than amarr WITH a regen. I get the impression that they think we're sacrificing speed for that 30 ehp (since that's the case on the other suit frames, no slot differences). That's a whole different set of WTF, really (since armor plate's speed hit is much less for much more hp). This raises the question of why the slots are still different if they obviously felt that 30hp = speed hit only, not slots, on the other frame sizes. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3729	Posted - 2014.03.05 19:25:00 - [3] - Quote All saw the fitting/stamina bonuses, but I think those are ill-advised as well. I'd just prefer another slot honestly. We already have the option of fitting modules to alter pg/cpu when given a slot. A large disparity with fitting just means, what... the Amarr will be able to something silly like fit a cloak easier? Fit all proto-easier? Those aren't great balance issues either. I'd prefer a slot readjustment along the lines I listed, even at the expense of the fitting/stamina gap. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3734	Posted - 2014.03.06 02:07:00 - [4] - Quote Dunce Masterson wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Unfortunately we didn't get a chance to redo the slots and PG/CPU for all the medium frames in Uprising 1.8. Expect those changes to come in a future update. wow (paragraph i will not post here) here let me help you amarr MLT 1 high 2 low amarr standard 2 high 2 low amarr advanced 2 high 3 low amarr prototype 3 high 4 low I don't want to give the impression that I'm stuck on the numbers I gave. I like: A-MLT: 3 ****** 1H 2L A-STD: 4 **** 1H 3L A-ADV: 5 **** 1H 4L A-PRO: 7 **** 2H 5L Personally I think it's an interesting setup, but it was just an example of a more armor-focused suit. Quote:** Though I'd be fine with 2H 3L for ADV too. You have the same idea as Dunce, and it's fine. I do kinda like my 2H 5L for PRO a little better, but that may just be me. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3744	Posted - 2014.03.07 02:16:00 - [5] - Quote Kilo Shells wrote: Would you trade 10 PG and 50 CPU for that slot? Just wondering. At Proto? Yes. At MLT? No... Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3744	Posted - 2014.03.07 02:20:00 - [6] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: still better than mimatar assault. Amarr scout > minmatar assault. Huh? Off-topic, for starters. Also, the Minmatar Assault has more slots, more hp (75 or so), more speed, more combat-focused bonuses, and would generally curb-stomp the Amarr Assault in every conceivable way. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read, and I read politics everyday. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3766	Posted - 2014.03.07 04:20:00 - [7] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: Kilo Shells wrote: Would you trade 10 PG and 50 CPU for that slot? Just wondering. Hard call. Always have to keep in mind that there is a stamina boost too. If it's just the cpu/pg, then yes. If it means giving up the built in cardiac regulator too, I'm not so sure. I think the Amarr suit should also have a faster sprint speed and melee damage, so it would be like it had a good amount of biotics built in to the suit, as the suit description does go out of it's way to specify that the suit bonds itself to the wearer in a more pronounced and painful way. Plus it would help make the Amarr suit distinct from the Gallente. If the only changes to the suit are making it focused on low slots and giving it one more of them it would come out looking just like a Gallente frame without the innate reps. Something needs to be done to make sure this suit keeps a distinct flavor. Adding the effects of a few other biotics does that better than any slot layout could do. I don't see it as being 1:1 anyhow. The HUGE fitting advantage being lost? Sure. However, I'd imagine the Amarr Assault would keep a slight PG advantage over some other suits, and maybe have lower CPU than others, etc. It's not a matter of just making the Amarr lower than everyone else. Same with the stamina. I'd imagine even without a large stamina buff, the Amarr would still have the most stamina because... that's typically the case? It doesn't necessarily need a Cardiac Regulator's worth of bonus, but the standard edge the Amarr get is fine. You can see those same trends on the new suits (higher general stamina, and not fitting superiority... but slight variances between races). The melee damage bonus seems to generally be in Minmatar favor, if trends elsewhere are any indication. I like slightly varied slot layouts (like 2/5) because it can distinguish what the suit can do more, but it affords you the possibility of CHOOSING how you want to vary the suit with a slot instead of a fixed bonus that's preordained. Melee is typically very impractical anyhow. I figure unique slot layouts, the general racial tendencies (brickish armor tank, higher than average stamina, lower speed usually), and unique bonuses can combine to individualize the suits plenty. This is doubly true if they move the bonuses to the suit to allow for multiple Assault frames with difference bonuses attached to different suits. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3916	Posted - 2014.05.05 14:18:00 - [8] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Unfortunately we didn't get a chance to redo the slots and PG/CPU for all the medium frames in Uprising 1.8. Expect those changes to come in a future update. Are you sure we can expect those changes in a future update? Touche Dren&Templar Tragedy.