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Disturbingly Bored
Forum Warfare
1909
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Posted - 2014.03.05 14:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
1) Damage Modifiers
By reducing complex damage modifiers to 5%, they are now worse than complex shield extenders on every possible fit.
There is no fit, none whatsoever, where shield extenders do not represent more than 5% of a dropsuit's total HP. Which means that outside of sniping, which has now been sorely nerfed, damage mods are totally useless.
CCP, you are removing diversity from the game. Everyone is simply going to dual-tank now.
2) Assault Rifle nerf
While in general good, the Gallente Assault Rifle did not need that severe of a nerf. As a matter of fact, it needed to remain close to its current stats to truly be the close-range bruiser option of the rifle class.
32 damage would have done it, 30 is too much of a nerf.
3) SMG nerf
I understand the need to nerf the SMG so it isn't as good as the rifles, but must the MagSec still have HIGHER DPS AND RANGE? New SMG is 350 DPS and 17m optimal, new Magsec is 355 DPS and 40m optimal. How is that balanced?
(Yes, I am ignoring charge up time. The Rail Rifle has shown this is not an issue at all to work around.)
4) The HMG needs a damage nerf along with the rifles.
Yeah, I said it. Suck it up fellow fatties.
With all the rifles getting an 8-15% damage nerf, the HMG is now comparatively that much more powerful. And with the Sentinel changes coming in 1.8, we are quickly heading to a state where HMG Sentinels will be the new overpowered FOTM.
Nerf HMG damage by 10% for this patch to maintain balance, otherwise the weapon with the highest DPS in the game will be the only full-auto weapon that maintained old TTK.
Pardon the immediate forum rage, but I'd hoped you guys had more sense than this. LERN2BALNCE boys.
I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - draconian forum overlord CCP Logibro]
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Adelia Lafayette
Science For Death
720
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Posted - 2014.03.05 14:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm going to put 1 or 2 on still. after that stacking penelty kicks in enough I don't care about the extra damage. Now I can use scanning mods or something else in the highs.
Assault dropship gets blown up....
(Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"...
..."I'm back"
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
120
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Posted - 2014.03.05 14:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Heavies will be OK, you need to keep your distance or flank them.
You are supposed to die one on one head on to a Heavy! Do not complain, come in a pack and flank. This is not a single man hero style shooter, it's about team play. The bigger problem are the light weapons on heavie suits. They should give light weapons a nerf on Heavie suits. |
Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1244
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Posted - 2014.03.05 14:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
1. Damage Mods probably won't be gaining a penalty because stacking them doesn't give you the same potential for damage that it does now. With that being said, stacking 4-5 damage mods will bring the weapons back to the damage points they have now. Based on the January dropsuit stats, the only assault class that won't be able to stack 4-5 damage mods is the Amarr with 3 and considering that the Amarr have really handy bonuses for the Scrambler Rifle, the weapon best known for one-shotting, it's fair.
2. ARs, and a few other assault variants, faced one of the weakest nerfs outside of sidearms. They were nerf by 4 pts compared to the Rail Rifle which is 8 pts of a nerf, the ScR which is 7, and the CR which is 5. We went from 34 to 30 for our standard rifle...That's not that much of a jump in comparison to the others.
3. SMG is faster and the MagSec is slower. The SMG has less fitting requirements as well. It kinda evens itself out. In CQC, the SMG will more than likely still be dominate against a MagSec that's trying to rip you up in the SMG's optimal range. I mean, even now the SMG is one of the go to weapons for CQC.
4. I believe they said the HMG is gaining some serious attention. WIth that said, if the HMG gains a nerf it shouldn't be to the point of uselessness. It should go without saying but many players would prefer to see it as a non-threat.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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CommanderBolt
ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION
930
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Posted - 2014.03.05 14:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hey well I am kinf of happy now come to think of it, with these reductions to weapon damage for most weapons, it means that my nerfed Core focused repair tool, even after its own nerf will still comparitively be pretty good.
I predict this game will be tanks and heavies with logis stuck to there behinds repping.
Join our public channel -
ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB
For the STATE!
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shadow drake35
Mocking Bird Inc.
70
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:1) Damage Modifiers
By reducing complex damage modifiers to 5%, they are now worse than complex shield extenders on every possible fit.
There is no fit, none whatsoever, where shield extenders do not represent more than 5% of a dropsuit's total HP. Which means that outside of sniping, which has now been sorely nerfed, damage mods are totally useless.
CCP, you are removing diversity from the game. Everyone is simply going to dual-tank now.
2) Assault Rifle nerf
While in general good, the Gallente Assault Rifle did not need that severe of a nerf. As a matter of fact, it needed to remain close to its current stats to truly be the close-range bruiser option of the rifle class.
32 damage would have done it, 30 is too much of a nerf.
3) SMG nerf
I understand the need to nerf the SMG so it isn't as good as the rifles, but must the MagSec still have HIGHER DPS AND RANGE? New SMG is 350 DPS and 17m optimal, new Magsec is 355 DPS and 40m optimal. How is that balanced?
(Yes, I am ignoring charge up time. The Rail Rifle has shown this is not an issue at all to work around.)
4) The HMG needs a damage nerf along with the rifles.
Yeah, I said it. Suck it up fellow fatties.
With all the rifles getting an 8-15% damage nerf, the HMG is now comparatively that much more powerful. And with the Sentinel changes coming in 1.8, we are quickly heading to a state where HMG Sentinels will be the new overpowered FOTM.
Nerf HMG damage by 10% for this patch to maintain balance, otherwise the weapon with the highest DPS in the game will be the only full-auto weapon that maintained old TTK.
Pardon the immediate forum rage, but I'd hoped you guys had more sense than this. LERN2BALNCE boys. galente needs nerf not heavy dont take a heavy head on or duh you die
The Mercenary Way
Who careswhat i use as long as the job is done and i get paid.
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shadow drake35
Mocking Bird Inc.
70
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mad Syringe wrote:The Heavies will be OK, you need to keep your distance or flank them.
You are supposed to die one on one head on to a Heavy! Do not complain, come in a pack and flank. This is not a single man hero style shooter, it's about team play. The bigger problem are the light weapons on heavie suits. They should give light weapons a nerf on Heavie suits. very true this is not cod at all this is dust completely different that means teamwork
The Mercenary Way
Who careswhat i use as long as the job is done and i get paid.
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Sgt Buttscratch
KILL-EM-QUICK
1939
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
The balancing of damage modules shouuld have come via creating new weapon "type" modules with a secondary stat which penalized the weapon in another area.
Like damage up range down Or damage up heat cost up damage up recoil up..
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1898
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:1) Damage Modifiers
By reducing complex damage modifiers to 5%, they are now worse than complex shield extenders on every possible fit.
There is no fit, none whatsoever, where shield extenders do not represent more than 5% of a dropsuit's total HP. Which means that outside of sniping, which has now been sorely nerfed, damage mods are totally useless.
CCP, you are removing diversity from the game. Everyone is simply going to dual-tank now.
2) Assault Rifle nerf
While in general good, the Gallente Assault Rifle did not need that severe of a nerf. As a matter of fact, it needed to remain close to its current stats to truly be the close-range bruiser option of the rifle class.
32 damage would have done it, 30 is too much of a nerf.
3) SMG nerf
I understand the need to nerf the SMG so it isn't as good as the rifles, but must the MagSec still have HIGHER DPS AND RANGE? New SMG is 350 DPS and 17m optimal, new Magsec is 355 DPS and 40m optimal. How is that balanced?
(Yes, I am ignoring charge up time. The Rail Rifle has shown this is not an issue at all to work around.)
4) The HMG needs a damage nerf along with the rifles.
Yeah, I said it. Suck it up fellow fatties.
With all the rifles getting an 8-15% damage nerf, the HMG is now comparatively that much more powerful. And with the Sentinel changes coming in 1.8, we are quickly heading to a state where HMG Sentinels will be the new overpowered FOTM.
Nerf HMG damage by 10% for this patch to maintain balance, otherwise the weapon with the highest DPS in the game will be the only full-auto weapon that maintained old TTK.
Pardon the immediate forum rage, but I'd hoped you guys had more sense than this. LERN2BALNCE boys.
You are right about the damage mods. Further more, the reduction in damage mod effectiveness nerfs snipers, which have been marginalized for a while now. Snipers need to be effective in order to perform any suppressive capability.
As a result of the damage mod nerf, sniper rifles should be buffed some.
The rest of your points are pretty invalid. SMGs definitely needed a nerf along with nearly all of the hitscan weapons. HMGs have been weaksauce for too long now, and the lack of nerf is a positive thing for the game.
They did miss a buff to the flaylock though, and a weakening of the AA. Both of these changes are needed to go along with 1.8. |
Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
720
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
shadow drake35 wrote:Mad Syringe wrote:The Heavies will be OK, you need to keep your distance or flank them.
You are supposed to die one on one head on to a Heavy! Do not complain, come in a pack and flank. This is not a single man hero style shooter, it's about team play. The bigger problem are the light weapons on heavie suits. They should give light weapons a nerf on Heavie suits. very true this is not cod at all this is dust completely different that means teamwork
It's important to make the difference between "teamwork" and "needing more than one person" to kill an asset.
We're in a 16 vs 16 game with strict number limits on each side. As soon as you have one asset that gives you a "soft" numerical advantage - that is, requires more than one person of the opposing side to take out - that asset de facto becomes the most powerful since it gives you a numerical advantage. This fallacy was thrown around at the beginning of 1.7 when HAV's were reigning supreme and thankfully has been silenced after people came to their senses.
If CCP want that Heavy suit SHOULD take more than one person to kill then everyone will just skill into heavy suits - simply as that , you're creating an effective zero sum game, which strangely resembles what happened with vehicles in 1.7 - the best counter to a tank is another tank, and this tank can also kill infantry... for infantry that will be: the best counter to another heavy is a heavy... and the heavy can really kill other infantry really well...
No, game mechanics , skill and fittings should be the main differentiator, not superior numbers.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
1925
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 15:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:1. Damage Mods probably won't be gaining a penalty because stacking them doesn't give you the same potential for damage that it does now. With that being said, stacking 4-5 damage mods will bring the weapons back to the damage points they have now. Based on the January dropsuit stats, the only assault class that won't be able to stack 4-5 damage mods is the Amarr with 3 and considering that the Amarr have really handy bonuses for the Scrambler Rifle, the weapon best known for one-shotting, it's fair. Stacking 5 damage mods is extremely PG intensive, and coupled with the PG consumption of plates and reppers, you'll have a poor tank to go with it. I'm not calling this balanced. 2. ARs, and a few other assault variants, faced one of the weakest nerfs outside of sidearms. They were nerf by 4 pts compared to the Rail Rifle which is 8 pts of a nerf, the ScR which is 7, and the CR which is 5. We went from 34 to 30 for our standard rifle...That's not that much of a jump in comparison to the others. The percentage is far more important than the raw damage per shot. This affects DPS directly, and considering that ScR's DPS is already through the roof, it's not really a big deal. Don't forget that the AR is subpar at the moment as well. It's being nerfed from a lower base. 3. SMG is faster and the MagSec is slower. The SMG has less fitting requirements as well. It kinda evens itself out. In CQC, the SMG will more than likely still be dominate against a MagSec that's trying to rip you up in the SMG's optimal range. I mean, even now the SMG is one of the go to weapons for CQC. AR is faster and the RR is slower. The AR has less fitting requirements as well... You get the picture. It's DPS at range coupled with the CQC capability that's devastating. 4. I believe they said the HMG is gaining some serious attention. WIth that said, if the HMG gains a nerf it shouldn't be to the point of uselessness. It should go without saying but many players would prefer to see it as a non-threat. I hope so. It's pretty balanced at the moment, but with the rifle nerf...
See bold.
MD/MSMG 514
Assault ak.0: 2x extender, 1x energiser, 2x regulator, 1x repper. Any advice?
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Knight Solitaire
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
570
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mad Syringe wrote:The Heavies will be OK, you need to keep your distance or flank them.
You are supposed to die one on one head on to a Heavy! Do not complain, come in a pack and flank. This is not a single man hero style shooter, it's about team play. The bigger problem are the light weapons on heavie suits. They should give light weapons a nerf on Heavie suits.
Heavies shouldn't have resistance when getting hit from the back then.
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
ISK Milkshakes for all! (Except the pubbers)
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Disturbingly Bored
Forum Warfare
1914
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote: good stuff
In general, logical points. But I have a few arguments:
Quote:1. Damage Mods probably won't be gaining a penalty because stacking them doesn't give you the same potential for damage that it does now.
If the stacking penalty is removed, there may be a point to them. But CCP has said nothing of the sort. Unless a dev says something, assume the penalty is still there.
Quote:3. SMG is faster and the MagSec is slower. The SMG has less fitting requirements as well. It kinda evens itself out.
Unless a weapon is single-shot, rate of fire is flavor, not balance. DPS is what matters. And the MagSec currently has higher DPS than the SMG at all possible ranges.
If the MagSec were even at 340 DPS, which isn't huge change, I'd be happy. But the MagSec currently beats the SMG in every situation at every range, except in a surprise flanking. Which isn't good enough to me.
Quote:4. I believe they said the HMG is gaining some serious attention. WIth that said, if the HMG gains a nerf it shouldn't be to the point of uselessness. It should go without saying but many players would prefer to see it as a non-threat.
I totally agree it shouldn't get nerfed into uselessness, which is what I'm afraid of.
Let me state, I use the HMG 95% of the time. It's my gun. I love it.
But it doesn't take a genious to see that it's going to be relatively 10-15% more powerful than rifles in 1.8 than it is now, and it's already a murder machine.
It needs a 10% damage nerf, which is perfectly reasonable, and it'll still be the meat grinder that it currently is in 1.8. Otherwise, we're going to get clubbed to death by the nerf bat the patch after this.
I'm warning you all now.
I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - draconian forum overlord CCP Logibro]
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Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
53
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
" sniping, which has now been sorely nerfed" **** you CCP |
Nosid Katona
HavoK Core RISE of LEGION
111
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mad Syringe wrote:The Heavies will be OK, you need to keep your distance or flank them.
You are supposed to die one on one head on to a Heavy! Do not complain, come in a pack and flank. This is not a single man hero style shooter, it's about team play. The bigger problem are the light weapons on heavie suits. They should give light weapons a nerf on Heavie suits.
Granted I'm not really freking out as much as others because I'm not really sure how the game will play after 1.8; I feel it is necessary to point out a severe problem with what your saying.
This is a team game yes, however it should never EVER take more then one infantryman to down another regardless of suit; each suit should just take a different approach while remaining soloable by the other suits. For an example, A heavy should be flanked and kept at a distance as much as possible OR you should put out enough alpha into him so he can't react and kill you before falling himself. With the HP heavies will have, the new resistances that effectively increase that huge HP pool against certain enemies, and the fact that if you are in front of a heavy with an HMG in CQC your dead (working as intended I think.) Heavies will be far more effective then other suits if numbers remain as they are.
An Assault should be able to solo a heavy with the right tactics. A Logi should be able to solo a heavy, albeit with a little more work than the more combat focused Assaults, with the right tactics. a Scout should have the easiest time soloing a heavy, as they are the hard counter to them. A heavy should be able to solo the other suits in situations that play to it's strengths, such as CQC with an HMG.
If this last paragraph is to remain true, numbers in 1.8 need to be adjusted, as is the case with HMG. It is in a good place NOW; it can't remain the same while the other dominate weapons (Rifles) get nerfed or you risk making it OP. I'd like to avoid another heavy over-nerf as much as possible so consider what I've said, with a grain of salt of course.
Vae Victis
Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
1460
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Posted - 2014.03.05 15:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
I agree that damage mods will be useless, but I also agree that they shouldn't be as strong as they are now.
I, also, dislike how sniper rifles will be nerfed due to said mods getting one. I mean, seriously, you can barely snipe in this game since everyone can get to cover before you take that second shot. |
Gelan Corbaine
Gladiators Vanguard
312
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Posted - 2014.03.05 16:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote: 4) The HMG needs a damage nerf along with the rifles.
Yeah, I said it. Suck it up fellow fatties.
With all the rifles getting an 8-15% damage nerf, the HMG is now comparatively that much more powerful. And with the Sentinel changes coming in 1.8, we are quickly heading to a state where HMG Sentinels will be the new overpowered FOTM.
Nerf HMG damage by 10% for this patch to maintain balance, otherwise the weapon with the highest DPS in the game will be the only full-auto weapon that maintained old TTK.
Pardon the immediate forum rage, but I'd hoped you guys had more sense than this. LERN2BALNCE boys.
I disagree for now because of two reasons . The damage mod nerf and weapon prof nerf .
While the DM nerf doesn't effect the Heavy all that much it does encourage brick tanks and with the prof nerf that means it will be tougher to punch through that shield buffer giving people just enough time to get around that corner during the spinup leaving the heavy behind.
With a further damage nerf the problem would only get worse, this was one of the problems of the 1.3 HMG . Sure in a stand up 1 vs1 nobody moving fight HMG still wins but in battlefield situation nobody is just going to stand there and take it . With the mobility issues of the heavy if he makes it into a position to kill he should kill period ...not only kill the ones too stupid to retreat .
No job is worth doing if you don't get paid in the end .
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Galthur
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
401
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Posted - 2014.03.05 16:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:
2. ARs, and a few other assault variants, faced one of the weakest nerfs outside of sidearms. They were nerf by 4 pts compared to the Rail Rifle which is 8 pts of a nerf, the ScR which is 7, and the CR which is 5. We went from 34 to 30 for our standard rifle...That's not that much of a jump in comparison to the others.
Number change =/= Nerf Amount Look at percentages and the AR got more of a nerf than ScR
What do you post in the war room when CCP is gone and PC is locked? 14:44 [CCP]Logibro: Not Anime.
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Spartykins
NECROM0NGERS The CORVOS
45
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Posted - 2014.03.05 16:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mad Syringe wrote:The Heavies will be OK, you need to keep your distance or flank them.
You are supposed to die one on one head on to a Heavy! Do not complain, come in a pack and flank. This is not a single man hero style shooter, it's about team play. The bigger problem are the light weapons on heavie suits. They should give light weapons a nerf on Heavie suits.
The same thing was said about chromo heavies.
*more war flashbacks about heavies with laser rifles*
(Insert witty phrase here)
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