DUST Search - WE NEEDZ BOTS!

Malkai Inos wrote:

Komodo Jones wrote:

30 NPCs are not the same as 30 players.

Correct. You need the models and their AI on top of that. Slapping them on our current matches would be as taxing to the console as just upping the player count unless you make them noticeably uglier and they're always more taxing to the server that has to simulate their AI in contrast to just computing player input.

Komodo Jones wrote:

Our current team sizes are tiny compared to the current size of the maps, the only reason the maps would need to be bigger would be to allow more vehicles but if the bots are infantry only (for now) then they're just filler

Yet the current team sizes are already way too large to enable the particular interactions that justify their existence in titanfall. So you're right. They're just filler. Expensive, near pointless filler.

I'm all in for Player vs Bot modes for our new blood to play around with. As an addition to our current matches, upping the playercount to 48 would be infinitely more important.

Edit: for your last reply. So you're not talking about adding NPCs to each team within our current pvp matches?

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Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 563	Posted - 2014.03.04 21:54:00 - [1] - Quote Increase the clone count to about 400, then bring in about 30 players that are controlled by AI, the AI shouldn't be more than extra guns that help keep pressure on areas and defend key points. This will help newer players be able to get some points as these bots shouldn't be incredibly hard to kill, or prevent redlining as bots wouldn't be helping to push the enemy team back to the MCC but the friendly AIs would help push out, so now you have your team of 16 players fighting 45 or 50? At some point numbers will overwhelm ya. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 11	Posted - 2014.03.04 22:31:00 - [2] - Quote Thats from titan fall right? I like the idea but i think these AI should be kind of hardcore, not just things that are free points Give it a kind of Railgun installation kind of aim, kind of slow but accurate.
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1853	Posted - 2014.03.04 23:01:00 - [3] - Quote Better idea: Make them actually like Titanfall. I don't need bots for tactical purposes, I need them for atmospheric purposes. I just want to feel like I'm on an actual battlefield. Some bots more stupid than blueberries with weapons which do almost to none damage would add to that feeling. Could also net you 1 - 5 WP for killing such a bot. But it would just be nice to give the battlefield a more lively feeling. I'm amazed how that turned out in Titanfall. Bots fighting each other, pulling wounded comrades into cover. Amazing. I want that in Dust. I would also like to see MAV drops from Eve Players. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1902	Posted - 2014.03.04 23:14:00 - [4] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Better idea: Make them actually like Titanfall. I don't need bots for tactical purposes, I need them for atmospheric purposes. I just want to feel like I'm on an actual battlefield. Some bots more stupid than blueberries with weapons which do almost to none damage would add to that feeling. Could also net you 1 - 5 WP for killing such a bot. But it would just be nice to give the battlefield a more lively feeling. I'm amazed how that turned out in Titanfall. Bots fighting each other, pulling wounded comrades into cover. Amazing. I want that in Dust. I would also like to see MAV drops from Eve Players. Yeah. I just wonder... Would these be the same size as regular humans? Because we are 2 and a half meter tall monsters bro. Because you Wanted to be Something your Not.
Malkai Inos Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1178	Posted - 2014.03.05 00:16:00 - [5] - Quote Assuming this supposed to be like titanfall (a player vs bots aka PVE mode would be great regardless of implementation): The game couldn't even handle an extra 30 human players currently. What makes you think that adding 30 players plus their AI would be in any way feasible? Also, the point of bots in titanfall is to get away with very few human players, so that every one of them can make a significant difference, without making the battlefield tiny or half empty. Our current team sizes already defeat their purpose, making them pointless overhead in such a scenario. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 564	Posted - 2014.03.05 00:16:00 - [6] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: Thats from titan fall right? I like the idea but i think these AI should be kind of hardcore, not just things that are free points Give it a kind of Railgun installation kind of aim, kind of slow but accurate. Or from any game that has bots, I remember one of the killzones having them, operation flashpoint This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Necandi Brasil DUST BRASIL S.A Proficiency V. 785	Posted - 2014.03.05 00:43:00 - [7] - Quote CCP may say that this is impossible due to hardware limitations ... BALACSES ??? MY PRECIOUS HAS BALACSES ???
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 564	Posted - 2014.03.05 00:44:00 - [8] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Better idea: Make them actually like Titanfall. I don't need bots for tactical purposes, I need them for atmospheric purposes. I just want to feel like I'm on an actual battlefield. Some bots more stupid than blueberries with weapons which do almost to none damage would add to that feeling. Could also net you 1 - 5 WP for killing such a bot. But it would just be nice to give the battlefield a more lively feeling. I'm amazed how that turned out in Titanfall. Bots fighting each other, pulling wounded comrades into cover. Amazing. I want that in Dust. I would also like to see MAV drops from Eve Players. Yes the idea is to add filler, because often times it can be boring on that field, but it doesn't mean they need to be tactically useless because at this point having some bots to help you out when you're getting proto stomped isnt a bad thing, at a minimum they could take some heat off of you. So more war points might make them more desire-able to farm instead of people and it's not like the points actually matter anyway. Meeko Fent wrote: Would these be the same size as regular humans? Because we are 2 and a half meter tall monsters bro. By bots I don't mean robots just NPCs, so yes people sized. But the AI could easily function in different ways, like drones or monsters. Malkai Inos wrote: Assuming this supposed to be like titanfall (a player vs bots aka PVE mode would be great regardless of implementation): The game couldn't even handle an extra 30 human players currently. What makes you think that adding 30 players plus their AI would be in any way feasible? Also, the point of bots in titanfall is to get away with very few human players, so that every one of them can make a significant difference, without making the battlefield tiny or half empty. Our current team sizes already defeat their purpose, making them pointless overhead in such a scenario. 30 NPCs are not the same as 30 players. Our current team sizes are tiny compared to the current size of the maps, the only reason the maps would need to be bigger would be to allow more vehicles but if the bots are infantry only (for now) then they're just filler This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 564	Posted - 2014.03.05 00:45:00 - [9] - Quote Necandi Brasil wrote: CCP may say that this is impossible due to hardware limitations ... That's horseshit, there's games with enemy AI...like almost every other game.. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1241	Posted - 2014.03.05 00:53:00 - [10] - Quote We already have bots in the game. Ask yourself whether it is possible for some of the "people" that play this game to be as terrible as they are. Also, I see a lot of MLT suits running into the fray with a Sniper Rifle, makes me think that the AI Algorithm decides that the best weapon for this "player" to wield is the one with the highest DPS... The Sinwarden

Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 564	Posted - 2014.03.05 00:56:00 - [11] - Quote Don't know why everyone thinks I'm thinking of titanfall, every other game has enemy and allied AI, why not dust, yes titanfall incorporated it into the multiplayer, other games have too and it shouldn't be that difficult, it's not like our mechanics and maps allow that much creativity anyway so they shouldn't have difficulty navigating and detecting enemies. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Malkai Inos Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1179	Posted - 2014.03.05 01:03:00 - [12] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: 30 NPCs are not the same as 30 players. Correct. You need the models and their AI on top of that. Slapping them on our current matches would be as taxing to the console as just upping the player count unless you make them noticeably uglier and they're always more taxing to the server that has to simulate their AI in contrast to just computing player input. Komodo Jones wrote: Our current team sizes are tiny compared to the current size of the maps, the only reason the maps would need to be bigger would be to allow more vehicles but if the bots are infantry only (for now) then they're just filler Yet the current team sizes are already way too large to enable the particular interactions that justify their existence in titanfall. So you're right. They're just filler. Expensive, near pointless filler. I'm all in for Player vs Bot modes for our new blood to play around with. As an addition to our current matches, upping the playercount to 48 would be infinitely more important. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 564	Posted - 2014.03.05 01:08:00 - [13] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Komodo Jones wrote: 30 NPCs are not the same as 30 players. Correct. You need the models and their AI on top of that. Slapping them on our current matches would be as taxing to the console as just upping the player count unless you make them noticeably uglier and they're always more taxing to the server that has to simulate their AI in contrast to just computing player input. Komodo Jones wrote: Our current team sizes are tiny compared to the current size of the maps, the only reason the maps would need to be bigger would be to allow more vehicles but if the bots are infantry only (for now) then they're just filler Yet the current team sizes are already way too large to enable the particular interactions that justify their existence in titanfall. So you're right. They're just filler. Expensive, near pointless filler. I'm all in for Player vs Bot modes for our new blood to play around with. As an addition to our current matches, upping the playercount to 48 would be infinitely more important. Edit: for your last reply. So you're not talking about adding NPCs to each team within our current pvp matches? This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1243	Posted - 2014.03.05 01:12:00 - [14] - Quote In all seriousness Dust needs PvPvE Random Rogue Drone attacks in battles that might or might not happen, I think this would provide for some very very interesting strategies and situations. Saving your friend from an unnoticed Drone or using one as a distraction to make a 1v1 PvP engagement into a 2v1 P&EvP engagement would be examples of cool things that might happen The Sinwarden
Malkai Inos Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1179	Posted - 2014.03.05 01:47:00 - [15] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: I'm thinking in terms of lag and server stability, having more than 32 people in a room I can see causing problems because servers have trouble now as it is, but if you just have AI on the map...lemme put it this way, I've never seen a single player game lag except when things were graphically taxing, and there's ways around that. Bots I feel like would be less of a problem than people just because you don't need to match the player animations and hitboxes and aiming capabilities with the player's responses and controls, it's just built into the game. I never doubted that it wouldn't be expensive but I figured if they were working on PVE this might as well be an element of it. But pointless? No, having someone else to fire at besides protostomping vets would be a breath of fresh air for alot of people. And yes I'm talking about AI allies on either team supporting the battle. Singleplayer games do not "lag" (as in network latency which has generally nothing to do with what is commonly referred to as "lag" i.e. low average frame rates) because player input only passes a few hundred meters of copper/silicon through the console as opposed to several thousand kilometers through international borders and dozens of intermediate servers which have to actively process and relay the data. The only part of latency an AI circumvents is inbound server data as it is generated there (it has to be, unless you want the AI to constantly desync between the different clients due to, you guessed it, latency). The locally (server) processed information would still have to incorporate client actions and get back to the clients (your console) so there's still latency involved. So, in effect Bots are generally not a feasible way to up the perceived player count. If an AI system is finally there, making a seperate gamemode with fewer players and a couple bots to mimic what titanfall does is a neat, while uncreative, idea. Using bots as a placeholder for numerically unbalanced teams is another possible use. It is, however, not a feasible alternative to just adding players and adds little gameplay value to 32 player matches. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Tonka Legacy THIRD EARTH INCORPORATED Dark Taboo 63	Posted - 2014.03.05 02:01:00 - [16] - Quote I dunno, I can see bots being the reason teams lose. Also how individuals farm wp. Imagine a bot with a militia AR firing at a proto heavy willing to take damage from the bot so the logi gets WP for orbitals. Scrambler rifles, the REAL way to scramble eggs... Laser rifles, good for popping corn... Shotgun, great for parties...
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 564	Posted - 2014.03.05 02:03:00 - [17] - Quote Again I don't see why this is difficult, yes I'm not a game developer or a codewriter but I do understand that in terms how things function from player perspective there's no difference between playing mass effect 3 online and playing through the story, and in that case data does need to be sent to a server and then back to a system. I do know SOME programming and at least the structure of logic that it has to follow, it's not making the AI that's hard it's just having it in a game where it can interact with players, and we already have the game and the mechanics to facilitate that interaction so how hard could it be to write some code and slap a skin on it? This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 567	Posted - 2014.03.05 02:18:00 - [18] - Quote Tonka Legacy wrote: I dunno, I can see bots being the reason teams lose. Also how individuals farm wp. Imagine a bot with a militia AR firing at a proto heavy willing to take damage from the bot so the logi gets WP for orbitals. So increase the quota for an orbital, war points don't mean anything except for the fact that you can get orbitals with them and they're proportionally related to SP accrual, so change the proportions. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Malkai Inos Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1180	Posted - 2014.03.05 02:19:00 - [19] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: Again I don't see why this is difficult, yes I'm not a game developer or a codewriter but I do understand that in terms how things function from player perspective there's no difference between playing mass effect 3 online and playing through the story, and in that case data does need to be sent to a server and then back to a system. I do know SOME programming and at least the structure of logic that it has to follow, it's not making the AI that's hard it's just having it in a game where it can interact with players, and we already have the game and the mechanics to facilitate that interaction so how hard could it be to write some code and slap a skin on it? It works in mass effect for the same reason it works in titanfall. Both games are designed from ground up to work with a set amount of players and a set amount of AI actors. An AI will work perfectly fine in DUST if you make sure that both server and client have the resources available to process the data. But slapping them onto our current gamemodes which are generally said to be near the limit of what both can reliably handle right now will most likely not work. Even if further optimization frees up the needed resources, using them to increase player count (dust was supposed to support 48 players at release. 64 players were hinted at!) or using the AI to add tangible gameplay (drones) seems like a much better use to me. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 567	Posted - 2014.03.05 02:25:00 - [20] - Quote Guess we gotta wait for PS4 then, that or push CCP to get bigger servers (my image of a server is a big black box that looks like a supercomputer that could house sentient artificial life, don't mind my ignorance lol) but really I've seen ps3 do bigger and better things and that was years ago, I have trouble believing that the fault is with the hardware and not with the amount of resources CCP is delegating to dust. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.

Malkai Inos Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1181	Posted - 2014.03.05 02:38:00 - [21] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: Guess we gotta wait for PS4 then, that or push CCP to get bigger servers (my image of a server is a big black box that looks like a supercomputer that could house sentient artificial life, don't mind my ignorance lol) but really I've seen ps3 do bigger and better things and that was years ago, I have trouble believing that the fault is with the hardware and not with the amount of resources CCP is delegating to dust. It doesn't get much bigger in terms of servers Again, ~~i've seen a blue post just recently that said they're trying to get PVE and, by extention, AI done asap~~*. We'll hopefully see some AI in action soonGäó enough. I just highly doubt that it will come in the form of random grunts all over our pub matches nor do i think that's even a particularly good use for this capability. Checked the source, was talking about NPE. My bad. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 568	Posted - 2014.03.05 02:54:00 - [22] - Quote Yeeeeah I think I saw that one, but I am hearing rumors about them hiring staff for it...they need an ASAP(tm) thought that would still probably last 3 months This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 711	Posted - 2014.03.05 03:32:00 - [23] - Quote i would like to have the npc bots be remotely usefull for once not just add to scenery.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 568	Posted - 2014.03.05 03:57:00 - [24] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: i would like to have the npc bots be remotely usefull for once not just add to scenery. Maybe some day....well unlike alot of games this one actually has some planned longevity, if they want to live up to their promise and not just cut it short of 10 years and **** alot of people off then ya gotta actually make it good so people will come and play it This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.


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