DUST Search - How to balance basic frames...

Bormir1r wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

I agree. Would give basic frames a purpose, in 1.8 we will have 36 standard-prototype basic frames; way too many suits in the game to have be completely useless. I say they are useless because for the most part they are inferior versions of the specialized suits (like assaults, logis, sentinels, etc), and they can't even be used as a way to save money since they're oddly more expensive (this is reversed for vehicles, specialized vehicles like assault dropsips cost more than the basic ones); there is just no reason to use a basic frame when you have unlock the specialization. We should never have 36 items that are worthless.

I generally agree about making the basic frames a generalized middle-ground between the specializations, it would make the specializations truly specialized by comparison instead of just being basic frames with bonuses slapped on with some few minor changes (current assaults, sentinels, scouts). It would also give players the ability to test-drive roles before specializing, right now you can test out the assault role with a basic medium, or a sentinel role with a basic heavy, etc, but you can't test a commando or logi role with their parent basic frame; the current set up is bad for testing roles.

I generally agree giving the basic heavy an equipment slot should happen, but it needs to take substantial losses as a tradeoff given how big and advantage an equipment is.

The basic suits require half as much SP instead of getting specialized, which is a lot of SP and cost approx. 20k ISK more than the specialized proto, which means you're paying twice the amount of SP for getting the 2 bonuses and reduced isk price.. However you are correct in saying there are issues that need to be fixed, so I would essentially agree with what you're saying maybe they could just add an inferior bonus (but nonetheless a bonus) onto the basic frame? (i.e. if you skill into the caldari medium basic, you should still get some generic bonus that's not as good as the specialized assault bonus or logi).

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Vegetation Monster KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 216	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:00:00 - [1] - Quote For one: Make them cheaper isk wise (33k isk for proto) Make them a mix between the two specializations...(slots) The basic medium frame should be a mix between logistics and assault (slot wise). 2 equipment slots for medium frames. Heavy frame should be a mix between commando and sentinel. (grenade slot swapped for equipment slot) (less HP). B Double O T Y
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 9732	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:13:00 - [2] - Quote I agree. Would give basic frames a purpose, in 1.8 we will have 36 standard-prototype basic frames; way too many suits in the game to have be completely useless. I say they are useless because for the most part they are inferior versions of the specialized suits (like assaults, logis, sentinels, etc), and they can't even be used as a way to save money since they're oddly more expensive (this is reversed for vehicles, specialized vehicles like assault dropsips cost more than the basic ones); there is just no reason to use a basic frame when you have unlock the specialization. We should never have 36 items that are worthless. I generally agree about making the basic frames a generalized middle-ground between the specializations, it would make the specializations truly specialized by comparison instead of just being basic frames with bonuses slapped on with some few minor changes (current assaults, sentinels, scouts). It would also give players the ability to test-drive roles before specializing, right now you can test out the assault role with a basic medium, or a sentinel role with a basic heavy, etc, but you can't test a commando or logi role with their parent basic frame; the current set up is bad for testing roles. I generally agree giving the basic heavy an equipment slot should happen, but it needs to take substantial losses as a tradeoff given how big and advantage an equipment is. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Bormir1r WarRavens League of Infamy 138	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:22:00 - [3] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I agree. Would give basic frames a purpose, in 1.8 we will have 36 standard-prototype basic frames; way too many suits in the game to have be completely useless. I say they are useless because for the most part they are inferior versions of the specialized suits (like assaults, logis, sentinels, etc), and they can't even be used as a way to save money since they're oddly more expensive (this is reversed for vehicles, specialized vehicles like assault dropsips cost more than the basic ones); there is just no reason to use a basic frame when you have unlock the specialization. We should never have 36 items that are worthless. I generally agree about making the basic frames a generalized middle-ground between the specializations, it would make the specializations truly specialized by comparison instead of just being basic frames with bonuses slapped on with some few minor changes (current assaults, sentinels, scouts). It would also give players the ability to test-drive roles before specializing, right now you can test out the assault role with a basic medium, or a sentinel role with a basic heavy, etc, but you can't test a commando or logi role with their parent basic frame; the current set up is bad for testing roles. I generally agree giving the basic heavy an equipment slot should happen, but it needs to take substantial losses as a tradeoff given how big and advantage an equipment is. The basic suits require half as much SP instead of getting specialized, which is a lot of SP and cost approx. 20k ISK more than the specialized proto, which means you're paying twice the amount of SP for getting the 2 bonuses and reduced isk price.. However you are correct in saying there are issues that need to be fixed, so I would essentially agree with what you're saying maybe they could just add an inferior bonus (but nonetheless a bonus) onto the basic frame? (i.e. if you skill into the caldari medium basic, you should still get some generic bonus that's not as good as the specialized assault bonus or logi). "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Zekain K Expert Intervention Caldari State 1180	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:24:00 - [4] - Quote What about light frames? They're supposed to get a pilot suit at some point, so how do you figure that one out,? *CALDARI not so MASTER RACE* Forum Warrior Level: 10
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 9733	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:31:00 - [5] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I agree. Would give basic frames a purpose, in 1.8 we will have 36 standard-prototype basic frames; way too many suits in the game to have be completely useless. I say they are useless because for the most part they are inferior versions of the specialized suits (like assaults, logis, sentinels, etc), and they can't even be used as a way to save money since they're oddly more expensive (this is reversed for vehicles, specialized vehicles like assault dropsips cost more than the basic ones); there is just no reason to use a basic frame when you have unlock the specialization. We should never have 36 items that are worthless. I generally agree about making the basic frames a generalized middle-ground between the specializations, it would make the specializations truly specialized by comparison instead of just being basic frames with bonuses slapped on with some few minor changes (current assaults, sentinels, scouts). It would also give players the ability to test-drive roles before specializing, right now you can test out the assault role with a basic medium, or a sentinel role with a basic heavy, etc, but you can't test a commando or logi role with their parent basic frame; the current set up is bad for testing roles. I generally agree giving the basic heavy an equipment slot should happen, but it needs to take substantial losses as a tradeoff given how big and advantage an equipment is. The basic suits require half as much SP instead of getting specialized, which is a lot of SP and cost approx. 20k ISK more than the specialized proto, which means you're paying twice the amount of SP for getting the 2 bonuses and reduced isk price.. However you are correct in saying there are issues that need to be fixed, so I would essentially agree with what you're saying maybe they could just add an inferior bonus (but nonetheless a bonus) onto the basic frame? (i.e. if you skill into the caldari medium basic, you should still get some generic bonus that's not as good as the specialized assault bonus or logi). Specialized suits should be more expensive and should take more SP to skill into. If the SP and cost were a tradeoff, than assault dropships should be cheaper than a standard basic dropships by that logic; they are both standard. Specializations would still be worth it even if they were more expensive; superior things should have higher costs, even it it takes more SP. We should never have a situation in which 36 suits becomes completely obsolete. I should have situations where I find it beneficial to switch to the inferior basic frames to save money. I agree that basic frames should give a bonus. That bonus should stack with all specializations that branch from that frame (so specializations would each have 3 bonuses). A Caldari assault and Caldari logi are both types of Caldari medium frames, so it makes sense that they should also receive the Cadari medium frame bonus. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1809	Posted - 2014.03.03 19:26:00 - [6] - Quote Zekain K wrote: What about light frames? They're supposed to get a pilot suit at some point, so how do you figure that one out,? This is how I see it. Each Light suit would get the bonus needed to make it fill its role. Small arms specialist would get a dmg boost to sidearms and bonuses to armor reps Light support would get dmg bonus to light weapons and armor modules Scout would get a scanner and speed bonus Force Recon would have a sniper damage bonus, armor rep bonus and a scanner boost Ewar specialist would have a bonus to hacking, scanning and speed Covert Ops would have the cloak bounus and bonuses to all three of the Dropsuit Electronics sub skills. The Pilot would get a bonus to the racial vehicle resource pool and a bonus to profile dampening and speed. I just noticed that I uploaded the picture without the advanced and proto symbols...what to do? "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 811	Posted - 2014.04.29 02:44:00 - [7] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: For one: Make them cheaper isk wise (33k isk for proto) Was gonna make a thread myself, but this is basically what I was going to propose anyways. Make basic suits have no bonuses, but make them a lot cheaper. You'll get the proto number of slots, but without the in-built mods that the specs would have at level 5, and would make fits cheaper. So you'd use basic frames to save money, at the cost of the built-in mods the specialists get (as well as any extra slots the specs might get, like more equip on logi suits). Amarr Master - All Amarr Dropsuits at lvl 5. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14. A manu dei et tet rimon.
wait reloading Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 14	Posted - 2014.04.29 13:53:00 - [8] - Quote I am thinking basic suits should get a generic racial bonus per level - then role specific suits get a role bonus per level. Would also like to see specislist type suits later on that get a 3rd bonus. But have the basic cheaper than the role specific with different slot layouts.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 943	Posted - 2014.04.29 13:56:00 - [9] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: For one: Make them cheaper isk wise (33k isk for proto) Make them a mix between the two specializations...(slots) The basic medium frame should be a mix between logistics and assault (slot wise). 2 equipment slots for medium frames. Heavy frame should be a mix between commando and sentinel. (grenade slot swapped for equipment slot) (less HP). May be we should just get rid of them instead...
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1857	Posted - 2014.04.29 13:57:00 - [10] - Quote Basic Frames Just need a Second Equipment Slot. They then are a unique option that could play into a lot of peoples generalist playstyles. Basic Heavies are fine

Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2448	Posted - 2014.04.29 16:35:00 - [11] - Quote I agree. Frames should be a hybrid between Assault/Logistics, Scout/Pilot, and Commando/Sentinel, but have no bonuses and be slightly more expensive. For example: a Medium Frame would have 2 equipments, but less overall slots than the assault, and keeping the sidearm. A Heavy Frame would carry a heavy weapon, equipment, but no grenades. A light... I don't know. I don't know how the pilot suit will turn out.


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