DUST Search - [Idea] Sniper Rifle Revision

Maximillian Marquis wrote:

I can sympathize with you want to keep things faction flavored, as is the case most of the time, so do I. However you also have to understand that Sniper Rifles are kind of a one trick pony, Yes they have obese damage and yes they have extreme range but lets look at the drawbacks a moment. You HAVE to maintain a decent distance for your shots, the sound of a sniper firing is liking shining a homing beacon onto that location. About 50% of the time to escape the counter-snipe game you can not really stay static unless the opposing team just doesnt care you are racking up kills. That means less time on targets and more time focusing on survival and hunting. Ever try landing a follow up shot on someone who actually knows how to move? And forget about a headshot unless you get lucky or they stupidly stop for half a second (Why I prefaced with KNOWS HOW TO MOVE). Likely Sniping? Well, looks like you will never directly help in the objective taking seeing as you are half way across the map in most cases, so that 45 second opening to hack is irrelevant.

I disagree on nearly every point you have made, except the faction specific rifles bit....I think that would be interesting. Also bare in mind that with 1.8 Damage mods are nerfed and proficiency's are being reworked to target specific area's...i.e shields or armor. Personally I am not a fan, but we will see who will stick with the sniping game once insta death shots are gone....I willing to say not many (I will be here....through thick and thin.....SNIPERS LEAD THE WAY! .....from the back Cool

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Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 137	Posted - 2014.03.03 07:59:00 - [1] - Quote The current SR doesn't fit the Caldari combat theme, FGs charge, RRs charge, Turret rails charge, the SR doesn't. I propose a few changes. 1. Give a charge time to all basic variants, similar to the RR but just slightly longer but still under the current CR charge time. The current theme for Caldari weapon behavior is their charge feature which is a counter balance for the amount of damage they can produce per shot, SRs has been the only exception to this while being allowed to do high over an extreme distance. 2.Give it an appropriate damage buff. The amount of damage added should be proportional to the DPS loss from the increased time between shots. 3.Raise Light Weapon skill requirement to Lvl5 and change the name of the SR to Charge Rifle. This change would help identify the SR as a high skill weapon, while the name change would put it in line with the Laser Rifle in terms of naming. (This is sort of a bias change, so sorry for that.) 4.Change the name of the current CR to Breach while. Again, sort of a bias change, but it would help with identifying it's role/purpose. I'll be honest, this will not stop red line sniping, but this will make it a more skill demanding weapon on the field, while also leaving room for other racial sniper rifles.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 137	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:03:00 - [2] - Quote General12912 wrote: seriously? when will people realise that redlining is easy to combat. most of the the redliners hiding spots are obvious and overused. and if one camps in a spot for too long, they will get spotted and counter-sniped 99% of the time (especially if they are camping in an overused spot). sniper rifles dont need fixed because redlining is an almost ineffective strategy to begin with. and since when do players even know where snipers are half the time anyways? if you found a redliner, just teach the scrub a lesson and counter-snipe them. but im sure that alot of players are getting sniped by a sniper who knows what they are doing and arent in the redline, yet when they get killed by him/her they are screaming redline. so unless you have located the sniper, dont call them a redliner. and if you have spotted them on the redline, its your own fault you didnt take them out. I understand your frustration but as I said, this isn't intended to be a redline fix, which is why I pointed out, this isn't going to fix a balance issue that isn't actually the weapon's fault. Pleas stay on topic.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 137	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:05:00 - [3] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: Actually, the current sniper is a placeholder for the racial snipers they're planning. The caldari sniper will be the charge variant and I believe the Tac sniper will be similar to the Minmatar Precision rifle. I certainly hope so, the way it is now just defies the idea of current rail weapons.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 137	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:29:00 - [4] - Quote General12912 wrote: Absoliav wrote: I understand your frustration but as I said, this isn't intended to be a redline fix, which is why I pointed out, this isn't going to fix a balance issue that isn't actually the weapon's fault. Pleas stay on topic. then what is this for? just to change things?? if it aint broke, dont try to fix it It's not broken, it just doesn't fit. My issue with the SR is that it's so generic it doesn't matter who you say built it I wouldn't care cause it carries non of the traits any of the racial weapons have. Many people also feel it's a crutch weapon carrying too many unfair advantages, while it only has two disadvantages (Small clip size and low rate of fire.), if the the SR were to have a more distinct weapon behavior that players would have to learn and master, it would leave space for other long-range rifles. The current Sniper Rifle leaves no room for other rifles, leaving weapons like the Laser Rifle and any other future long-range rifles as unnecessary gimmicks, and if the SR were given more personality it could be balanced more easily without simple answers like taking/giving more base damage, while allowing more variants for the SR which only has basic, TAC, and Charge. Look at the Laser Rifle, does a static damage across all tiers, with heat-production, heat-threshold, overheat-damage, heat-cooldown, overheat-cooldown, and does more damage as it heats up, just changing one of these stats could easily fix anything wrong with it's performance without making another weapon obsolete or less viable. Weapon personality breeds diversity for playstles and fitting while opening the way for more weapons later down the road.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 137	Posted - 2014.03.03 23:32:00 - [5] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: Leave the sniper rifles alone. Correction, there is only one, and if it's not changed, it might remain the only one for a long time, and when other long-range rifles come out, it will be the best one there is unless the others are OP in someway.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 137	Posted - 2014.03.04 00:38:00 - [6] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: Absoliav wrote: TheEnd762 wrote: Leave the sniper rifles alone. Correction, there is only one, and if it's not changed, it might remain the only one for a long time, and when other long-range rifles come out, it will be the best one there is unless the others are OP in someway. False. At proto level, there's 3. Kaalakiota Tactical, Ishukone, and Charge. And that's not including the Thale's officer variant. I was referring to sniper rifles as a weapon class, not the gun we currently have, which has three variants and two Officer Tier variant Variant's don't count, only one of them actually changes the guns behavior, the other behaves exactly the same with a higher rate of fire, lase damage and a smaller clip size, these are all the same gun except for the Charge, in total, it has only one actual variant. Ars come in four different flavors, Plasma, Laser, Rails and Projectiles, for now only the Plasma has four actual variants that behave differently. Breach, more damage, slower rate-of-fire, short-range, smaller clip, iron sight, superior hip-fire recoil. Tactical, more damage, mid-range, scope attachment, single-shot, tiny clip size. Burst, semi-automatic, mid-short range, higher rate-of-fire, scope attachment, reduced damage, burst fire, large clip. Basic/Assault, full-automatic, short-range, high rate-of-fire, iron sight, large clip. Other weapons have similar variants with different stats that adjust their playstyle and role the field while still maintaining their racial/weapon theme. The SR is the black sheep, long range with little drawback and high damage, the low rate of rife prevents it from being short-range weapon, but the TAC version has greater range and a higher rate of fire while also having a smaller clip, which makes no sense and defies it's racial theme and weapon logic. The Sniper Rifle needs to be revised for the sake of weapon diversity, racial identity and weapon logic. The current one leaves no room for improvement while leaving weapons like the Laser Rifle and any future long-range rifles unnecessary.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 140	Posted - 2014.03.09 23:07:00 - [7] - Quote General12912 wrote: it carries all the traits of the caldari weaponry but one: the charge (not counting the charge sniper rifle variant). it has the longest range in the game, anda fire mode thats slow but high damage like a breach gun. and if charge was added to the sniper rifle, what would make the charge sniper rifle stand out from the rest??? seriously, sniper rifles are hard enough to use. charge would make it almsot impossible to use. thats y the charge sniper rifle is so rarely used. Yes, Snipers are harder to use when compared to most weapons, but in Dust it's far too easy to use because of the insane advantages it provides compared to every other gun, no damage fall-off, long range scope, huge damage without head-shots, little to no sway, all these points make the need for other rifles trivial and pointless. To make things worse it completely overshadows it's only relative, the Laser Rifle, even after the LR buff coming with 1.8, it will still be a second rate rifle and only by default since it's the only other sniper rifle. As I've said, if the SR remains the same than we shouldn't expect to see any new Sniper Rifles for awhile as the current one leaves no room for any innovation or creativity.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 140	Posted - 2014.03.10 16:52:00 - [8] - Quote Maximillian Marquis wrote: I can sympathize with you want to keep things faction flavored, as is the case most of the time, so do I. However you also have to understand that Sniper Rifles are kind of a one trick pony, Yes they have obese damage and yes they have extreme range but lets look at the drawbacks a moment. You HAVE to maintain a decent distance for your shots, the sound of a sniper firing is liking shining a homing beacon onto that location. About 50% of the time to escape the counter-snipe game you can not really stay static unless the opposing team just doesnt care you are racking up kills. That means less time on targets and more time focusing on survival and hunting. Ever try landing a follow up shot on someone who actually knows how to move? And forget about a headshot unless you get lucky or they stupidly stop for half a second (Why I prefaced with KNOWS HOW TO MOVE). Likely Sniping? Well, looks like you will never directly help in the objective taking seeing as you are half way across the map in most cases, so that 45 second opening to hack is irrelevant. I disagree on nearly every point you have made, except the faction specific rifles bit....I think that would be interesting. Also bare in mind that with 1.8 Damage mods are nerfed and proficiency's are being reworked to target specific area's...i.e shields or armor. Personally I am not a fan, but we will see who will stick with the sniping game once insta death shots are gone....I willing to say not many (I will be here....through thick and thin.....SNIPERS LEAD THE WAY! .....from the back ) From your first statement you've either joking or not familiar with Redlining or the Sniper's Nest players make at the top of impossible to reach places, which makes it pretty easy for a Logi to drop a Nhive and Droplink. Hitting someone isn't that hard are when you're target isn't aware of you and your Thale in the redline, and the Dmod nerf isn't that big of a deal for SR since the most effective rifles are the TACs which can drop a heavy faster then he can hit the ground. Sniping in Dust has nothing to do with "insta death shots", it's about putting as many bullets in someone without having to worry about them fighting back, you want an OHK use the charge, but no one likes the Charge cause it's a little harder to use.