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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1181
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Posted - 2014.03.02 11:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
your confusing a suits role with its name dude.
its a "scout" suit, not a scout.
its a cloaky hard to see/find target that can idealy pick its fights, its more of an assasin then anything else.
suit name =/= role
it functions closer to a rogue, its goal is to find and hunt specific targets using its steath to track and close in at an oportune moment.
as rogues in WoW are for locking down healers, "scout"s in dust are for taking out that logi that keeps repping everyone preventing you from moving in. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1182
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Posted - 2014.03.02 12:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alternate Insano wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Alternate Insano wrote:Slash Frenzy wrote:Quote:Sorry buddy, your hopes of re-living the old military days through Dust514 are done Pirate
This is a sci-fi computer game, don't expect it to match up to your time in Military ....
Dust is not real-life..... This. But I agree most play the scout to offensive. Because most play alone and wanna earn WP to get SP. When I-Śm in a squad my main purpose is placing uplinks, hack uncovered objectives and kill sniper/scouts. I do see that this can be a description of the scout in this game. But, just my 2c. So, you use your scout as a logi? IS there anything you can do that another class can't? Everything you described I do with a commando. I'm just trying to figure if scouts even have a purpose. If anyone can do what they do, then I'd say they don't. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, just because a commando can drop uplinks, hack points and kill snipers doesn't mean its the best for the job. Otherwise we would only have 2 basic suits a heavy and a medium because between they can do every job EVER. It like telling my Minmatar Flanking suit is terrible because the Jobs I do with it can be done with any other suit. Which they can, but when your squad is pinned down I would much rather have a fast moderately dampned minmatar to say a lumbering brick tanked amarr as my flanker. But that doesn't mean someone else can play amarr as flanker it just doesn't suit MY style, it's not wrong but to me its not right either. We really only have 3 suits now, heavy, logi, and scout
fixed that for you, heavys and logis are better assault suits. scouts have the unique ability to get in and target/eliminate logis quickly and without as much resistance as other suits. and are therefore more useful then any other thrid role by far if concidering the 1.8 metagame. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1183
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Posted - 2014.03.02 12:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alternate Insano wrote:INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:Alternate Insano wrote:I was a 19D Cavalry Scout in the US Army. I have seen what real scouts do on a battlefield, and the wanna-be "scouts" in New Eden are no where close.
Your mission is to get in a squad and find enemies for your squad. Your squad comes and kills the enemies while you slip away to find more enemies for your squad.
It's so simple, yet, pretty much all scouts in this game get it wrong. This is easy to understand because CCP also doesn't understand what a scout's role is.
Scouts are not ninjas. They do not carry weapons like Nova Knives. I personally find NK scouts offensive to my former professsion.
Scouts are not CQCers. If you are engaging the enemy yourself, it's because you screwed up and they saw you.
Scout's main weapons should be their laser designator. Oh, that's right, CCP didn't include that mechanic, which is basically the ONE THING A SCOUT IS SUPPOSED TO DO. Why the F did you even include scouts at all?!?
God you guys suck at making video games. You do realize that the classes and roles are not defined by your interpretation of what the United States Army uses scouts for? They are defined by the people who make this game, and its based on space man technology, far in the future, where scouts have knives, and do what the **** we want..... Why do people always feel the need to put their b u l l s h I t on how we are supposed to utilize our suits, why the he ll does it matter what I do with my suit? When the day comes that the insufferable amount of bitching from this player base leads to hard roles being defined by ccp to the point that we cant create the custom fits that are really at the heart of why this game is still bad ass, on that day dust will die..... Our ability to have the freedom to make suit choices both good and bad are 1of the top 3 reasons I play dust.... The game makers can define the suit role, but how you implement that role and to what end is our choice. No one here should be telling others how to use a suit or gun, thats why logis are being nerfed, and yet we will always slay because when you spawn in your gun is in your hand, not, your rep tool.... Heavies will continue to use rr, because they can, and scouts will continue to cut your efing head off because its fun and cool and difficult.... Dont define my roll, know your own, slow it down, and get good with it. CCP is already forcing us into specific roles with bs racial bonuses. But if you like running around thinking you're really being a "scout" doing whatever it is you're doing that everybody else can do, whatevs man.
again your thinking wrong...
they arnt being scouts, they are acting as other things in "scout" suits....
just because its a "scout" suit doesnt mean its a scout man.
"scout" suits in this game are used for targetted assasination of high priority targets, disruption, uplink hunting, uplink placing, and being able to operate in the oponents areas of control without being instantly noticed.
no other suit can acomplish those goals as well.
they dont think they are army scouts, they are in "scout" suits doing roles that only "scout" suits can do. its a game and these are game mechanics, everything operates within certain parameters that simply dont exsist in real life. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1185
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Posted - 2014.03.02 12:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote:I can't wait for my min scout to: do 1000 damage in an instant (mmm charged proto NK swipe!...hope my math is right!) hack 60% quicker (25% role bonus, 10% min scout bonus, 25% hack skill) avoid adv scanners without mods (35 scan profile) cloak without gimping whole fitting (75% reduced PG CPU cost) have TWO equipment slots - this is huge AND have light and side arm Go on about how the scout can't uniquely excel at its role compared to other suits. Post a video of you doing all of the above in another suit and I'll give you 50,000,000 ISK. 
good news, the data shows that all scouts have a 5% hacking bonus built in, with the minmatar scout having an extra 10% built into the suit in addition tot he other skills :P |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1185
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Posted - 2014.03.02 12:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Oxskull Duncarino wrote:Alternate Insano wrote:Oxskull Duncarino wrote:Alternate Insano wrote:I was a 19D Cavalry Scout in the US Army. I have seen what real scouts do on a battlefield, and the wanna-be "scouts" in New Eden are no where close.
Your mission is to get in a squad and find enemies for your squad. Your squad comes and kills the enemies while you slip away to find more enemies for your squad.
It's so simple, yet, pretty much all scouts in this game get it wrong. This is easy to understand because CCP also doesn't understand what a scout's role is.
Scouts are not ninjas. They do not carry weapons like Nova Knives. I personally find NK scouts offensive to my former professsion.
Scouts are not CQCers. If you are engaging the enemy yourself, it's because you screwed up and they saw you.
Scout's main weapons should be their laser designator. Oh, that's right, CCP didn't include that mechanic, which is basically the ONE THING A SCOUT IS SUPPOSED TO DO. Why the F did you even include scouts at all?!?
God you guys suck at making video games. Ooh you adorable idiot  Here's a fun fact! While they can and do take influence from real life, video games are not real life  What, next are you going to try to compare heavies with HMGs and massive armor plates with shielding etc., to............................., or transfer of memories from one clone to another is similar in RL to.....................yeh, you're going to have a slight problem there. Actually, you'll have a problem with most elements of Dust if you try to compare them like that. Lol, I've the utmost respect for most present/past military personal, but your post is idiotic to the extreme, when you compare what those that have served in RL have done with a game. What I find more funny is that you think a suit class name denotes a players roles in a game that promotes flexibility. A fast suit that is usually invisible to all other classes unless they're in the FOV, is perfectly suited to the use of shotguns, NKs , remotes, etc., that involves getting in close for a ninja like ambush, and then disappearing again. Edit - What I posted has already been said here, but a little repetition shouldn't hurt here You sure can tell when players have never even seen military tactics or weapons up close. They have no appreciation for how things actually work. I've used plenty, both hardware and tactics, but that's not the point here. The point is that some idiot, yourself, doesn't know when to stop digging the hole, whether it's a really bad troll attempt or unfortunately your actual opinion.
games while based on pieces of real life, are their own little universes, with different rules written then ours.
military tactics tend to fail in video gazmes where the rules have diverged far enough from real life.
mostly because in military tactics you cant literally throw away lives on an endless loop to acomplish something without facing harsh consequenses.
this isnt reality, and the rules of this little pocket universe called dust 514 are vastly different from the one we live in. as a game designer you deliberatly design things that arnt realistic for the sake of balance or entertainment as doing otherwise would result in its failure.
its a "scout" suit, not a scout.
stop applying real life rules and laws to video games and realise that the rules of this universe are different then our own. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1187
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Posted - 2014.03.02 13:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alternate Insano wrote:Hagintora wrote:If you think you've identified a problem (lack of role for Scouts), what would your solution be? Besides never getting into combat? This is an FPS game, and as someone else pointed out, never getting to do anything besides look at bad guys gets boring. So what would you propose as a possible solution/role for Scouts to play, that lives up to the name "Scout", and is still fun to play? These were my major jobs as a Cav scout: Ride around in a Bradley IFV. I was too tall to drive, fit in the turret, or load the TOW tubes, so I did dismount. I carried a USAS or M249 SAW, wore heavy body armor, and would surpress an area so that the infantry unit on board could dismount the vehicle. Switched from that to roof gunner on a Hummer. Used a Mk19. Basically a belt fed, full automatic mass driver accurate up to a mile if somebody was on the other end laseing the target. Lase targets for gunships, tanks, LAVs, and missle batteries. This was dangerous. You had to sneak way into enemy lines, not get seen, and designate targets. Always a chance of getting blown up by the strike you called in. Decoy Duty. Get behind enemy ines, cause enough of a distraction to get the enemy's attention, hold the aggro until the infantry can get there and save you. Certain scout units would go in with major ground forces, then break away and recover intel. This is kind of like hacking CRUs and such I suppose. I jumped out of every aircraft the US military uses for that purpose, and a couple that they don't. Scouts should be on a dropship every chance they get. Hitch a ride to the other end of the map, air drop in, get to work. Scouts should be proficient with all the longer range weapons. The best way to avoid a noisy fight is to shoot the guy from like 800m with a silenced weapon. Game mechanics don't support this however. Scouts should be masters of explosives, both to eliminate enemy assets and to cause the big distractions for decoy duty. However, mechanics are not included that would give any WP for doing this role. Just like how good PlC users get screwed for no WP for clearing an obj after firing 1 shot and all the bad guys run away. Aside from occasionally STROPE rigging or using the FARS being a scout was a crappy job, and pretty much a stepping stone toward Rangers for anyone planning to stay in long.
AAAANNNDDD none of that is applicable to dust, as the laws in the dust universe change how you would idealy want to aproch situations.
scouts should stay out of dropships, they get shot out.
scouts should stay out of LAVs, they get shot out.
scouts usually do carry explosives and oeprate quite well doing exactly the thi9ng you seem to think they dont get any WP for doing....
dust=/=real life, in this game we are immortal, have different amounts of HP, can modify our suits to increase abilities that we cant have in the real world, weapons function in ways that break the laws of physics, dropships fly like spaceships, you can magically point a device around and see everyhting that isnt packing dapmeners, etcetcetcetc.
for every rule that is different from the laws of the world we live in, it changes what the ideal aproch would be inside of dust.
your amry training has made you bad at this game, and it should or you wouldnt be any good to the army.
your job means that you HAVE to think in the terms you do becuase its life or death. but ultimatly the dust universe simply doesnt work like that and CANT work like that its simply not possable. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1189
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Posted - 2014.03.02 13:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alternate Insano wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Alternate Insano wrote:Hagintora wrote:If you think you've identified a problem (lack of role for Scouts), what would your solution be? Besides never getting into combat? This is an FPS game, and as someone else pointed out, never getting to do anything besides look at bad guys gets boring. So what would you propose as a possible solution/role for Scouts to play, that lives up to the name "Scout", and is still fun to play? These were my major jobs as a Cav scout: Ride around in a Bradley IFV. I was too tall to drive, fit in the turret, or load the TOW tubes, so I did dismount. I carried a USAS or M249 SAW, wore heavy body armor, and would surpress an area so that the infantry unit on board could dismount the vehicle. Switched from that to roof gunner on a Hummer. Used a Mk19. Basically a belt fed, full automatic mass driver accurate up to a mile if somebody was on the other end laseing the target. Lase targets for gunships, tanks, LAVs, and missle batteries. This was dangerous. You had to sneak way into enemy lines, not get seen, and designate targets. Always a chance of getting blown up by the strike you called in. Decoy Duty. Get behind enemy ines, cause enough of a distraction to get the enemy's attention, hold the aggro until the infantry can get there and save you. Certain scout units would go in with major ground forces, then break away and recover intel. This is kind of like hacking CRUs and such I suppose. I jumped out of every aircraft the US military uses for that purpose, and a couple that they don't. Scouts should be on a dropship every chance they get. Hitch a ride to the other end of the map, air drop in, get to work. Scouts should be proficient with all the longer range weapons. The best way to avoid a noisy fight is to shoot the guy from like 800m with a silenced weapon. Game mechanics don't support this however. Scouts should be masters of explosives, both to eliminate enemy assets and to cause the big distractions for decoy duty. However, mechanics are not included that would give any WP for doing this role. Just like how good PlC users get screwed for no WP for clearing an obj after firing 1 shot and all the bad guys run away. Aside from occasionally STROPE rigging or using the FARS being a scout was a crappy job, and pretty much a stepping stone toward Rangers for anyone planning to stay in long. AAAANNNDDD none of that is applicable to dust, as the laws in the dust universe change how you would idealy want to aproch situations. scouts should stay out of dropships, they get shot out. scouts should stay out of LAVs, they get shot out. scouts usually do carry explosives and oeprate quite well doing exactly the thi9ng you seem to think they dont get any WP for doing.... dust=/=real life, in this game we are immortal, have different amounts of HP, can modify our suits to increase abilities that we cant have in the real world, weapons function in ways that break the laws of physics, dropships fly like spaceships, you can magically point a device around and see everyhting that isnt packing dapmeners, etcetcetcetc. for every rule that is different from the laws of the world we live in, it changes what the ideal aproch would be inside of dust. your amry training has made you bad at this game, and it should or you wouldnt be any good to the army. your job means that you HAVE to think in the terms you do becuase its life or death. but ultimatly the dust universe simply doesnt work like that and CANT work like that its simply not possable. My Army training has made me excel at fps games. A workplace injury that left me with 1 fully operational hand is what hurt my game. And, no, scouts get no WP for distracting the enemy so friendlies can kill them. Just like no WP for area surpression. Also, if you're getting shot out of dropships and LAVs I'd say you're not doing it right. Your LAV driver is going to close to the main enemy force and your DS pilot is flying too low. You should look up HALO jumping and take a page from that.
if you cant shoot a scout out of a dropship your doing it wrong, it has no HP i blap scouts out of dropships all the time, its a simple matter of point the small missle at the side and BLAP instant death 1HKO vs say a heavy suit wich is a dmn 5 hit KO.
i also shoot them out of LAVs the same way, BAM 1HKO and this is with them moving at full speed BTW.
scouts get assist WP for both distraction and supression, and skills for bait and BOOMing,
your job means you think of this game in terms of real life, as if the universes follow the same rules. they dont, and so you will always think of scout suits as scouts, then scout suits most certainly are NOT scouts and CANT be scouts at least in the terms of your "scout" ideal.
its not possable, stop getting hung up on a name.
this isnt the same universe, and HP matters so naturally some tasks that your "scout" would do our scout suits cannot, and naturally our scout suits can do things your "scout" cannot do. the rules are different here and so the tactics are not the same. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1192
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Posted - 2014.03.02 14:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alternate Insano wrote:\tell me if I'm wrong to be pissed how this whole class was done.
its not a class its a suit, you make the class that you want to play using that suit.
this is of course limited to what mechanics/modules/features are in the game, but theres only so much that can be represented and unlike real life it has to be balanced.
your pissed because your "scout" isnt in the game, thats fine.
your "scout" cant exsist in the game, its not possable.
its an unreasonable expectation based on your real life experiance of what works and is possable. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1194
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Posted - 2014.03.02 18:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
and its officially devolved into a flame fest... guys come on... there was no reason for this.
everyones alowed to a little ragefest at the game every once and a while, theres tons of stuff that we all wish were apart of the game.
he started by simply compairing the scout suit with his old profession and ended up disapointed because of how little the two compaired to each other. thats all there is too it.
his disapointment is every bit as valid as anything else on these forums, but unfortunatly for him RL scouts dont translate very well into game mechanics and so they are oftin used for other purposes that dont match up well with his personal experiance... thats pretty much all that needs to be said on the matter now. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1196
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Posted - 2014.03.02 19:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:
He called us adorable scouts who don't know there roll
he wasnt exactly stepping carefully on eggshells to convey his intended message but he diddnt exactly mean any harm by it.
from his perspective there are two groups that identify with "scouts"
his group RL scouts
and game scouts
hes simply noticed a huge descrepancy in what the two groups roles are and is expressing his desire that they be brought closer together.
in essence he is expressing his dismay that the games dont allow you guys to really get to see the scout how hee sees them. and he wishes that you guys could see how awesome real scouts are. add in his army background and that explains his rather rough way of conveying his message.
aka dont let his adversarial way of saying it get in the way of understanding that he really just wants to share his insight into scouts as well as his feelings of how awesome RL scouts were.
hes trying to be friends
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1196
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Posted - 2014.03.02 19:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alternate Insano wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:JARREL THOMAS wrote:
He called us adorable scouts who don't know there roll
he wasnt exactly stepping carefully on eggshells to convey his intended message but he diddnt exactly mean any harm by it. from his perspective there are two groups that identify with "scouts" his group RL scouts and game scouts hes simply noticed a huge descrepancy in what the two groups roles are and is expressing his desire that they be brought closer together. in essence he is expressing his dismay that the games dont allow you guys to really get to see the scout how hee sees them. and he wishes that you guys could see how awesome real scouts are. add in his army background and that explains his rather rough way of conveying his message. aka dont let his adversarial way of saying it get in the way of understanding that he really just wants to share his insight into scouts as well as his feelings of how awesome RL scouts were. hes trying to be friends You can see into my brain! You can write my posts from now on.
i can see into most peoples brains :P in real life it creeps people out, in the world of the internet its the ultimate conflict resolution tool. |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1196
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Posted - 2014.03.02 19:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Draxus Prime wrote:if your saying we play the role wrong based off its names real life version then why aren't we talent scouts looking for the next big thing
or girl scouts who need to sell their cookies to the enemy
Don't judge the role if you've never played it
please read my translation
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1891802#post1891802 |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1197
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Posted - 2014.03.02 19:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Alternate Insano wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:JARREL THOMAS wrote:
He called us adorable scouts who don't know there roll
he wasnt exactly stepping carefully on eggshells to convey his intended message but he diddnt exactly mean any harm by it. from his perspective there are two groups that identify with "scouts" his group RL scouts and game scouts hes simply noticed a huge descrepancy in what the two groups roles are and is expressing his desire that they be brought closer together. in essence he is expressing his dismay that the games dont allow you guys to really get to see the scout how hee sees them. and he wishes that you guys could see how awesome real scouts are. add in his army background and that explains his rather rough way of conveying his message. aka dont let his adversarial way of saying it get in the way of understanding that he really just wants to share his insight into scouts as well as his feelings of how awesome RL scouts were. hes trying to be friends You can see into my brain! You can write my posts from now on. i can see into most peoples brains :P in real life it creeps people out, in the world of the internet its the ultimate conflict resolution tool. me on the internet: solves more problems then it causes me in real life: causes more problems then it solves.... by alot. people in real life dont like it when you can see their every motivation and intention, it puts people in a defencive stance immediatly even if they arnt conciously aware of your ability to read them a piece of them can still tell in most cases. How?
how can i read them so well? or how can they unconsiously tell that i am?
for me its just second nature so its difficult to explain.
and people can tell because your responces to things wont match their internal expectations, and if you consistantly respond in ways that are unfamiliar or dont match their percieved notion of how people would normally respond it generally makes them uncomfortable after a while and if they arnt conciously aware of why im responding that way it will generally creep them the hell out.
its kinda like if you met a stranger and they constantly answered questions you hadnt said yet it would obviously freak you out a little but obviously not that exaduated.
i dont listen to what people say, i listen to what people mean and ignore the manner in wich they say it.
like when you were a kid if you mom asked you if you did one of your chores yet. you and your mom obviously both know that you havnt yet and you what what shes really saying is that she wants you to go take out the trash.
"have you done such and such yet"
translates to
"please go do it"
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