DUST Search - For the CPM - Overhauling PC Districts

Vrain Matari wrote:

Kain Spero wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

Kain Spero wrote:

In regard to the OP getting rid of timers would be a very bad idea. You want to make PC into a job? Make sure you have to be on 24/7 to ensure a team doesn't try to stealth capture your district. I could see moving to a window system (district is vulnerable for 2 to 3 hours) where the district can be attacked at will, but even this has the potential to lead to empty fights.

The fact is that empty fights get boring very quickly, but players will generally gravitate towards gameplay that provides the most benefit for the least effort (see district locking). An FPS game where people don't actually fight isn't going to be something that is very compelling.

Then what alternative do you have? Or do you think Mobius' alternative is a better idea? See link below for his alternative idea.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1892076#post1892076

Again, I think a lot of the issues stem from passive ISK, which is compounded by the clone pack refund. Players will gravitate towards what is most profitable and no corp is going to want to spend hundreds of millions a day for long keeping their district locked up.

Good dustcussion, peeps.

This is one of several reasons i think a robust & flexible player/corp contract system is important to the evolution of the game. I put it above the player market and PVE in terms of what DUST needs to succeed.

District-holders could make auto-defense contracts for district defense when they could not be on to defend. These contracts could specify preferred corps, preferred mercs, pre-specify squad leader spots by corp membership and/or merc name.

The system should allow the use of an extensive list of variables(K/D, W/L, WP, ?, ?,...) with a robust set of logical tools, mathematical operators and conditions for both contract qualification and payout conditions. As an example of a robust system, consider Grismar's search tools. This is not a simple task for CCP but not a terribly tough one either, but the payouts from a contract tool like this will be tremendous in terms of immersive, social, player-driven, story-generating content.

And ofc the same tool would be used later to facilitate PVE drone-maintenance contracts - experienced district-holding PVP corps would issue contracts to younger PVE corps tyring to build a reputation and get their foot in the door for district ownership. Again, the social capital that comes out of this is significant.

Imo there is no other tool that CCP could add to the sandbox that would generate more story or more depth for New Eden.

P.S.: In thinking about this, we really need the game to maintain a permanent record of the end-of-match rankings(with additional pertinent stats) for every battle. This is also a feature that has tremendous positive social implications for the game.


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Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1237	Posted - 2014.03.02 14:39:00 - [1] - Quote These were my ideas that were based around what we believe is coming in PC 2.0 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1807377#post1807377 The idea is that the link with EVE via vulnerable war barges until they anchor means that corps that might not have the best ground forces can still defend their districts by having a solid EVE presence. Every corp should have a high sec 'district' that they can accumulate clones on until it reaches its max to launch attacks with. There will be no biomass sales with these districts. This would keep fights going in PC because any corp would get at least one or two attacks a week out of their home base. There needs to be greater ISK sinks in PC through the use of PC only suits/installations/vehicles. PC is the highest level of competition in the game so players are always going to want to use the top tier equipment. By having things that are a little better but much more expensive (think pirate faction suits etc), it creates a sink but also a reason to use it. Something like a ladder system needs to be brought into PC. Give districts different levels of profit/production/whatever based upon their sec status or relation to a high sec system. If PC 2.0 requires the use of warbarges to go through EVE space, then the deeper systems in low sec should have a higher value than those bordering a high sec system. Lower value districts should be seen as starter districts where they really dont produce all that much which would make them somewhat unattractive to more veteran PC corps. There needs to be a plan to expand PC. It is way too easy for alliances to dominate the region with so few districts. It has been happening since the game's launch with Cronos, then EoN. now RA and who knows after. PC 2.0 cannot get here fast enough because it will make distance actually mean something and give an idea of 'territory' and 'frontlines' to the game. One thing I definitely see happening is that major alliances will have 'home systems' that are going to be almost perma-gatecamped during wartime. Canari Elphus for CPM1
Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1237	Posted - 2014.03.02 14:44:00 - [2] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: The ISK generation as it is, has to go. I'm actually shocked and amazed to this day that CCP didn't do an emergency fix for district locking. It should never have been allowed to get this far out of control. As it is, by the time the player market releases, income will be radically unbalanced. (Note, that when the infinite orbitals exploit was discovered, CCP did a fix over a weekend. I feel in some ways, district locking's ramifications might be far worse.) Those people that care about the player market and their wallets will not have any issues when the player market comes out. - Many PC players squander their ISK on proto suits in pub matches. - Non-PC players who have resolved to be ISK-efficient since open beta have made hundreds of millions by just using mlt gear. Canari Elphus for CPM1
Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1239	Posted - 2014.03.04 19:28:00 - [3] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Kain Spero wrote: In regard to the OP getting rid of timers would be a very bad idea. You want to make PC into a job? Make sure you have to be on 24/7 to ensure a team doesn't try to stealth capture your district. I could see moving to a window system (district is vulnerable for 2 to 3 hours) where the district can be attacked at will, but even this has the potential to lead to empty fights. The fact is that empty fights get boring very quickly, but players will generally gravitate towards gameplay that provides the most benefit for the least effort (see district locking). An FPS game where people don't actually fight isn't going to be something that is very compelling. Then what alternative do you have? Or do you think Mobius' alternative is a better idea? See link below for his alternative idea. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1892076#post1892076 Again, I think a lot of the issues stem from passive ISK, which is compounded by the clone pack refund. Players will gravitate towards what is most profitable and no corp is going to want to spend hundreds of millions a day for long keeping their district locked up. Good dustcussion, peeps. This is one of several reasons i think a robust & flexible player/corp contract system is important to the evolution of the game. I put it above the player market and PVE in terms of what DUST needs to succeed. District-holders could make auto-defense contracts for district defense when they could not be on to defend. These contracts could specify preferred corps, preferred mercs, pre-specify squad leader spots by corp membership and/or merc name. The system should allow the use of an extensive list of variables(K/D, W/L, WP, ?, ?,...) with a robust set of logical tools, mathematical operators and conditions for both contract qualification and payout conditions. As an example of a robust system, consider Grismar's search tools. This is not a simple task for CCP but not a terribly tough one either, but the payouts from a contract tool like this will be tremendous in terms of immersive, social, player-driven, story-generating content. And ofc the same tool would be used later to facilitate PVE drone-maintenance contracts - experienced district-holding PVP corps would issue contracts to younger PVE corps tyring to build a reputation and get their foot in the door for district ownership. Again, the social capital that comes out of this is significant. Imo there is no other tool that CCP could add to the sandbox that would generate more story or more depth for New Eden. P.S.: In thinking about this, we really need the game to maintain a permanent record of the end-of-match rankings(with additional pertinent stats) for every battle. This is also a feature that has tremendous positive social implications for the game. It sounds like a good idea but we need baby steps before we can even think of that. Future ideas should combine both Dust & EVE as far as district defense/attack. One thing that can be done is that corps have to buy Anti-Air defenses for non-timer districts. Before an attacker can land an MCC on the district, they have to take out the defenses EVE side. The amount of defenses and their meta level would give you an idea of how long they can last (and how much prep the dust side has before the attack). This solves two things 1 - It gives some time buffer before district attacks 2 - It provides and ISK sink for PC This is just a brainstorm but I would love to see ideas from players like this... Canari Elphus for CPM1
Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1240	Posted - 2014.03.05 20:06:00 - [4] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Regarding expansion outside of Molden Heath, I say wait until we are sure that PC 2.0 is working as intended. Considering the current problems, wouldn't it have been even worse if there were more districts? Lets get it right, or at least make sure it is workable, before expanding outside of Molden Heath. Pretty much this. Unless PC locking is fixed first, opening more regions will just introduce more ATMs and this more excessive ISK flooding the market. Its not just locking though. 2.0 is going to radically reshape PC if its what has been rumored. Ideally, CCP will test all possible ways to 'lock' a district within the new mechanics before release. I think the bigger issue here has been how long locking has been allowed to go on with little word from CCP. I cannot believe that they are that blind to its ramifications so I can only hope that they are not spending time on it because 2.0 is near to being finished. we can cross our fingers... Canari Elphus for CPM1