DUST Search - Why is equipment getting nerfed?

Luk Manag wrote:

Roy Ventus wrote:

Luk Manag wrote:

Without a doubt, we'll need more logi support. Instead of a logi who reps and supplies ammo and scans, the main slayers will need logi ammo guys, logi rep guys, and logi scan guys. The squads I'm used to seeing will shift towards logi supporting logi slayers in squads full of logis, with a heavy in the mix, and a lone wolf scout deploying links and removing the need for the Amarr Logis, sorry.

I don't understand the logic going down with Logi's.

Right now... Everyone uses equipment to the same capability. In 1.8 it will be pretty much the same except Logi's get a bonus to their racial equipment. It's a better role then. You and others are just sour because equipment overall is receiving a nerf. Newbies can't tell and won't have a reason to argue against it like you guys do. There's more benefits for the Logi role in 1.8 than it is now.

Edit: And don't disclaim the Amarr Logi. When it's needed, those 3 second uplinks will be the things you desire the most.

With the big nerf to equipment, it will not make sense to multi fit my Caldari Logistics dropsuit. My links will be slow, my repper is range and HP/s nerfed, and my scanner will snapshot 60 or 90 degrees, while my nanohives will be slightly better than they are now. I'm going to load up with multiple nanohives and focus on slaying.

With these changes, the Min logi, even with it's 4 equipment slots, will be pointless for the multiple logistical roles. It'll fit reppers and injectors, but why fit multiple reppers? It might be better to fit out complex defensive modules and leave the other slots open. All of the races will benefit more from fitting multiple versions of their racial equipment. If you want a preview of the nanohive nerf, try the militia nanohive and then ask yourself if it would be worth fitting it on anything.

My friends and I have been talking about how to coordinate the scanner coverage. With the snapshot, we will have to call out the cardinal directions when scanning to optimize coverage. We'll assign ranges of directions to individual logi slayers. If this works, it may make sense for me to carry ammo and a scanner. More likely though, it will be better to have our Gal Logi bring multiple scanners and cycle through them for broad coverage, no coms traffic needed. My ammo will be too valuable to waste a slot on a scanners. More logi guys will fit the bill.

"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."

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Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2446	Posted - 2014.03.01 15:52:00 - [1] - Quote I'm really not sure how nerfing all equipment would balance the Logi, and why does anybody think support Logis needed a nerf? Lowering the hp on them is fine, and limiting the amount of uplinks a person can throw out is cool... But why did nerf them? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Delta90212 Dust2Dust. Top Men. 302	Posted - 2014.03.01 16:05:00 - [2] - Quote CCP tries to nerf slayer logis > nerfs equipment Wat. Fear The Tribes // In Rust We Trust // Standings Minmatar 6 // Minmatar Logibro //
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2446	Posted - 2014.03.01 16:16:00 - [3] - Quote Delta90212 wrote: CCP tries to nerf slayer logis > nerfs equipment Wat. I still can't understand it. Dmg mods and plates are the only problem, just adjust them. Give dmg mods a higher stacking penalty and make them draw more CPU/PG from Logis. And increase the speed penelty on plates to 3/4/5 or 3/4/6 "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
danie sous DUST BRASIL S.A Proficiency V. 0	Posted - 2014.03.01 16:21:00 - [4] - Quote I think it has to do w race specific suit bonuses. If a respect comes I'll go mim logo w rep tool.
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 566	Posted - 2014.03.01 16:25:00 - [5] - Quote Its about "choices matter" in CCPs head, they want you to choose the Logi that best suits your style of play, then Stick to that style, and god help you if you wana do something else. These forums must be located in the Californin country side, there is whine as far as the eye can see.
Hecarim Van Hohen ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 487	Posted - 2014.03.01 16:41:00 - [6] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Delta90212 wrote: CCP tries to nerf slayer logis > nerfs equipment Wat. I still can't understand it. Dmg mods and plates are the only problem, just adjust them. Give dmg mods a higher stacking penalty and make them draw more CPU/PG from Logis. And increase the speed penelty on plates to 3/4/5 or 3/4/6 Now don't be silly, that would've made sense BANGO SKANK WAS HERE 1.7 best match (HMG): 40/9/9 (K/A/D)
abarkrishna WarRavens 321	Posted - 2014.03.01 17:08:00 - [7] - Quote A logi uses all equipment. A real logi would never choose between hives needles scanner and links. He would choose them all. This is a very stupid idea. But hey what do we the player base know. Hopefully they give us a respec. I will be going assault. Logis are already really ******* expensive. Why pay more for a shittier suit. No thanks. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Bormir1r WarRavens League of Infamy 136	Posted - 2014.03.01 17:09:00 - [8] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: A logi uses all equipment. A real logi would never choose between hives needles scanner and links. He would choose them all. This is a very stupid idea. But hey what do we the player base know. Hopefully they give us a respec. I will be going assault. Logis are already really ******* expensive. Why pay more for a shittier suit. No thanks. Why not scout lol? "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 162	Posted - 2014.03.01 17:13:00 - [9] - Quote Probably trying to prevent the Galogi's from sitting on their proto triage nanohives. Then again, CCP giving them only a sidearm probably would have been a harder hit. Sometimes I miss never seeing tanks in a battle... then I remember the mystical flying soma, and I can't help but smile.
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 322	Posted - 2014.03.01 17:16:00 - [10] - Quote Without a doubt, we'll need more logi support. Instead of a logi who reps and supplies ammo and scans, the main slayers will need logi ammo guys, logi rep guys, and logi scan guys. The squads I'm used to seeing will shift towards logi supporting logi slayers in squads full of logis, with a heavy in the mix, and a lone wolf scout deploying links and removing the need for the Amarr Logis, sorry. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG

Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 3095	Posted - 2014.03.01 17:16:00 - [11] - Quote To make equipment use the specialty of the Logistics they need to be less effective on other suits. You can either penalize use on non-Logistics or make them weaker overall and then buff them back up when used by Logistics, which is the path they chose. The heartburn people are experiencing is the fact that each race only gets part of that buff so equipment looks weaker in the majority of cases. // Lance Commander // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 1192	Posted - 2014.03.01 17:18:00 - [12] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: A logi uses all equipment. A real logi would never choose between hives needles scanner and links. He would choose them all. This is a very stupid idea. But hey what do we the player base know. Hopefully they give us a respec. I will be going assault. Logis are already really ******* expensive. Why pay more for a shittier suit. No thanks. You can use all equipment. You just can only use your race's equipment the best. Stop being silly, it makes sense in terms of balancing. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 1193	Posted - 2014.03.01 17:21:00 - [13] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: Without a doubt, we'll need more logi support. Instead of a logi who reps and supplies ammo and scans, the main slayers will need logi ammo guys, logi rep guys, and logi scan guys. The squads I'm used to seeing will shift towards logi supporting logi slayers in squads full of logis, with a heavy in the mix, and a lone wolf scout deploying links and removing the need for the Amarr Logis, sorry. I don't understand the logic going down with Logi's. Right now... Everyone uses equipment to the same capability. In 1.8 it will be pretty much the same except Logi's get a bonus to their racial equipment. It's a better role then. You and others are just sour because equipment overall is receiving a nerf. Newbies can't tell and won't have a reason to argue against it like you guys do. There's more benefits for the Logi role in 1.8 than it is now. Edit: And don't disclaim the Amarr Logi. When it's needed, those 3 second uplinks will be the things you desire the most. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1833	Posted - 2014.03.01 17:27:00 - [14] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: Its about "choices matter" in CCPs head, they want you to choose the Logi that best suits your style of play, then Stick to that style, and god help you if you wana do something else. Weird, but I could see it. If you want to be a really good Ammo mule, then go Caldari A good revver, go Gal A good Droplink Placer, go Amarr A good Repper, Go minnie. Maybe that's why they want to respec everybody, so the people who all skilled in Gal-Logi can migrate to the other Races depending on how they like to logi. Now I type that, It makes Perfect Sense. Looking for a Interesting Character Name? Why Not Zoidberg?
abarkrishna WarRavens 321	Posted - 2014.03.01 17:30:00 - [15] - Quote Sure I can use all equipment even with the isk increase nanite reductions and whatevere other nerfs there are. Or I could go logi slayer. That's the direction CCP seems to be sending me. Gal logi with cloak and stacked damage mods and armor plates. I will stealth camp objectives and kill the **** out of you with fluxs and mass drivers camping triage nanohives. Look at it this way. I am still going to be running the same fits. Except it will cost more and my equipment will be less effective. That would be like increasing the price of your precious rail rifles and nerfing the accuracy rate of fire and damage. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 322	Posted - 2014.03.01 18:26:00 - [16] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Luk Manag wrote: Without a doubt, we'll need more logi support. Instead of a logi who reps and supplies ammo and scans, the main slayers will need logi ammo guys, logi rep guys, and logi scan guys. The squads I'm used to seeing will shift towards logi supporting logi slayers in squads full of logis, with a heavy in the mix, and a lone wolf scout deploying links and removing the need for the Amarr Logis, sorry. I don't understand the logic going down with Logi's. Right now... Everyone uses equipment to the same capability. In 1.8 it will be pretty much the same except Logi's get a bonus to their racial equipment. It's a better role then. You and others are just sour because equipment overall is receiving a nerf. Newbies can't tell and won't have a reason to argue against it like you guys do. There's more benefits for the Logi role in 1.8 than it is now. Edit: And don't disclaim the Amarr Logi. When it's needed, those 3 second uplinks will be the things you desire the most. With the big nerf to equipment, it will not make sense to multi fit my Caldari Logistics dropsuit. My links will be slow, my repper is range and HP/s nerfed, and my scanner will snapshot 60 or 90 degrees, while my nanohives will be slightly better than they are now. I'm going to load up with multiple nanohives and focus on slaying. With these changes, the Min logi, even with it's 4 equipment slots, will be pointless for the multiple logistical roles. It'll fit reppers and injectors, but why fit multiple reppers? It might be better to fit out complex defensive modules and leave the other slots open. All of the races will benefit more from fitting multiple versions of their racial equipment. If you want a preview of the nanohive nerf, try the militia nanohive and then ask yourself if it would be worth fitting it on anything. My friends and I have been talking about how to coordinate the scanner coverage. With the snapshot, we will have to call out the cardinal directions when scanning to optimize coverage. We'll assign ranges of directions to individual logi slayers. If this works, it may make sense for me to carry ammo and a scanner. More likely though, it will be better to have our Gal Logi bring multiple scanners and cycle through them for broad coverage, no coms traffic needed. My ammo will be too valuable to waste a slot on a scanners. More logi guys will fit the bill. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 1195	Posted - 2014.03.01 20:34:00 - [17] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: Luk Manag wrote: Without a doubt, we'll need more logi support. Instead of a logi who reps and supplies ammo and scans, the main slayers will need logi ammo guys, logi rep guys, and logi scan guys. The squads I'm used to seeing will shift towards logi supporting logi slayers in squads full of logis, with a heavy in the mix, and a lone wolf scout deploying links and removing the need for the Amarr Logis, sorry. I don't understand the logic going down with Logi's. Right now... Everyone uses equipment to the same capability. In 1.8 it will be pretty much the same except Logi's get a bonus to their racial equipment. It's a better role then. You and others are just sour because equipment overall is receiving a nerf. Newbies can't tell and won't have a reason to argue against it like you guys do. There's more benefits for the Logi role in 1.8 than it is now. Edit: And don't disclaim the Amarr Logi. When it's needed, those 3 second uplinks will be the things you desire the most. With the big nerf to equipment, it will not make sense to multi fit my Caldari Logistics dropsuit. My links will be slow, my repper is range and HP/s nerfed, and my scanner will snapshot 60 or 90 degrees, while my nanohives will be slightly better than they are now. I'm going to load up with multiple nanohives and focus on slaying. With these changes, the Min logi, even with it's 4 equipment slots, will be pointless for the multiple logistical roles. It'll fit reppers and injectors, but why fit multiple reppers? It might be better to fit out complex defensive modules and leave the other slots open. All of the races will benefit more from fitting multiple versions of their racial equipment. If you want a preview of the nanohive nerf, try the militia nanohive and then ask yourself if it would be worth fitting it on anything. My friends and I have been talking about how to coordinate the scanner coverage. With the snapshot, we will have to call out the cardinal directions when scanning to optimize coverage. We'll assign ranges of directions to individual logi slayers. If this works, it may make sense for me to carry ammo and a scanner. More likely though, it will be better to have our Gal Logi bring multiple scanners and cycle through them for broad coverage, no coms traffic needed. My ammo will be too valuable to waste a slot on a scanners. More logi guys will fit the bill. Your first paragraph. It doesn't make sense. Well it does but you have a sucky reason for using only nanohives. Essentially, you want the standard you have now... If these were the original stats from the jump, you wouldn't be complaining. If you only carry nanohives, even with the nerf, you're making yourself less useful on the field. You're better off focusing around nanohives as your main thing with the other equipment as sides. Hell. Caldari is sitting better than the others right now just because your nanohives can either rep armor or replenish ammo based on the variant. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
calvin b Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 1596	Posted - 2014.03.01 20:36:00 - [18] - Quote Because slayer logi's sitting on hives is why. A heavy before 1.8
echo47 Minmatar Republic 209	Posted - 2014.03.01 20:43:00 - [19] - Quote It is what the community asked for. People complained about equipment spam, some even thought it was causing lag. People complained about do-it-all logis. The changes seems legit to me. I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2179	Posted - 2014.03.01 20:48:00 - [20] - Quote Because CCP. They saw a problem, and fixed it in a way that really only makes sense to them. There are a bunch of ways to make logi suits worse at killing (#1: make other suits better at it) and reduce equipment spam (make it just as effective but harder to fit) but they chose this way. Who knows, I mean we don't know everything coming in 1.8 yet, there may be a larger picture we are missing (doubtful in this instance but who knows). Basically though, it's all part of the same over-nerfing philosophy they've gone with all along. "Item/suit/weapon x is way too good, let's make it useless now." "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 6993	Posted - 2014.03.01 21:59:00 - [21] - Quote Who do people figure equipment nerf is there to nerf logis? Maybe the equipment is OP and needed to be toned down? Think about it. Scanner - OP as **** Nanohives - A single one can supply an entire squad for a full match Uplinks - Do I really need to explain why they're dumb? Repair Tool - VoV <-- That's the only one I can't make sense of. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2077	Posted - 2014.03.01 22:02:00 - [22] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Who do people figure equipment nerf is there to nerf logis? Maybe the equipment is OP and needed to be toned down? Think about it. Scanner - OP as **** Nanohives - A single one can supply an entire squad for a full match Uplinks - Do I really need to explain why they're dumb? Repair Tool - VoV <-- That's the only one I can't make sense of. Get out of here with your logic. Try to kill it all you want CCP, I still <3 my laser.
echo47 Minmatar Republic 209	Posted - 2014.03.01 22:03:00 - [23] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Because CCP. They saw a problem, and fixed it in a way that really only makes sense to them. There are a bunch of ways to make logi suits worse at killing (#1: make other suits better at it) and reduce equipment spam (make it just as effective but harder to fit) but they chose this way. Who knows, I mean we don't know everything coming in 1.8 yet, there may be a larger picture we are missing (doubtful in this instance but who knows). Basically though, it's all part of the same over-nerfing philosophy they've gone with all along. "Item/suit/weapon x is way too good, let's make it useless now." In all honesty and fairness everything that ahs been nerfed has been what players witht he loudest voice have requested. Basically responding to the community. I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
Incin3rate New Age Empire. 51	Posted - 2014.03.01 22:05:00 - [24] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: Its about "choices matter" in CCPs head, they want you to choose the Logi that best suits your style of play, then Stick to that style, and god help you if you wana do something else. Thats fine but they need to quit changing stuff after it is already released. Its almost like we are still in a games beta phase...
Croned 590	Posted - 2014.03.01 22:19:00 - [25] - Quote Repair tool balance != repair tool nerf. Increasing the HP/sec of my core focused repair tool from 175 to 245 is definitely worth losing a few meters. I'm assuming all you did was read the summary of the new stat charts and not actually the charts themselves. Son of a plasma cannon!
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 570	Posted - 2014.03.02 04:51:00 - [26] - Quote Incin3rate wrote: Beck Weathers wrote: Its about "choices matter" in CCPs head, they want you to choose the Logi that best suits your style of play, then Stick to that style, and god help you if you wana do something else. Thats fine but they need to quit changing stuff after it is already released. Its almost like we are still in a games beta phase... Despite what CCP may tell you we are still in beta. These forums must be located in the Californin country side, there is whine as far as the eye can see.
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 420	Posted - 2014.03.02 04:54:00 - [27] - Quote Some equipment need to be nerf hammered. Cough, cough, active scanners, cough rep-nano-hives, cough, uplinks, cough. Excuse me. Blatant Dust_514 recruiting in the silliest of places. :P
Tectonic Fusion 1163	Posted - 2014.03.02 05:08:00 - [28] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: abarkrishna wrote: A logi uses all equipment. A real logi would never choose between hives needles scanner and links. He would choose them all. This is a very stupid idea. But hey what do we the player base know. Hopefully they give us a respec. I will be going assault. Logis are already really ***** expensive. Why pay more for a shittier suit. No thanks. Why not scout lol? He would probably not be use to dying in .001 seconds. Most people are use to using an OP 500 EHP basic suit. Solo Player Squad status: Locked**
abarkrishna WarRavens 324	Posted - 2014.03.02 07:46:00 - [29] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: Bormir1r wrote: abarkrishna wrote: A logi uses all equipment. A real logi would never choose between hives needles scanner and links. He would choose them all. This is a very stupid idea. But hey what do we the player base know. Hopefully they give us a respec. I will be going assault. Logis are already really ***** expensive. Why pay more for a shittier suit. No thanks. Why not scout lol? He would probably not be use to dying in .001 seconds. Most people are use to using an OP 500 EHP basic suit. .001 seconds .05 seconds it's all the same. There is still no time to react anyways 40 percent of the time. I do not really like playing the scout. I much prefer being a tank or healer. As it is being a logi has quite high risk for quite little reward. When heavies and assaults and such fall down they have a logi to pick them up. When we fall down we have little to no one else carrying needles. A good logi suit can cost upwards of 200 000 isk. Lose one suit and you may not profit.(Granted those are proto suits) With a rising cost of equipment it will become more difficult for a logi to profit which I think is a bad thing. A lot of people already struggle making profit as it is. All it will do it make the rich richer and the poor even poorer. For example now in 1.8 gallente logis and caldari logis will squad up together with some combination of heavies and assaults making their raping of you guys that much worse. Caldaris will throw down rep hives for the gallente and the gallente will scan everyone in sight. This is not what you want. People will abuse the ** out of this way more than before. So yeah. Be warned I am foretelling this prophecy. Mark my words. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!


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