DUST Search - Have map names on load screen before battle

Malkai Inos wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

Yes please.

Also would love to have that map table in the war barge working someday Smile

And oh how nice it would be to have the choice to avoid deployment on certain maps... it would also show the inherent map biases for and against certain fits thus creating some interesting data that could contribute to balance considerations for CCP... and if some map(s) weren't deployed into by most players it would help show which maps are broken or less than fun and give some guidance for development of future content as well.

All in all Win-Win.

0.02 ISK
Cross

Absolutely yes to the table. Big smile

I'm a bit more sceptic regarding the choice of map. Both from a gameplay and statistical perspective.

In terms of gameplay, such an option would of course mean that players would avoid maps that are biased against their fit/playstyle or less fun for any other reason. This is in line with the stated purpose (i assume?) and would improve their overall performance as well as enjoyment of the game.

However, the consequence of this is certain playstiles/fits becoming more/less prevalent on different maps which would essentially mean less variety per map. The better performing fits would eventually start to displace the worse performing ones completely through ever increasing performance pressure.

The end result might be less choice for the player, not more.

Regarding statistics, i think that the inherent map biases can be already determined by the actual outcome data which most likely are already being stored to generate after match screens and update leaderboards.

Secondly. Any kind of active user voting (which avoiding a map would equate to in terms of data aquisition) is prone to the subjective biases of the "voting" player and reasons one might want to avoid a map are manyfold, such as bad client performance or plain personal preference, as well as possibly hard to distinguish between.

Thus, while i might agree that the kind of data this would generate might be helpful, the method of aquisition seems to be less than optimal when it comes to reliability and i very much assume that a more objective means to get these data could be implemented without any front end changes or might even be in use right now.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Mass Heals Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 142	Posted - 2014.03.01 05:02:00 - [1] - Quote This would be tremendously helpful when referring to which maps are played. I know names exist but its difficulty for to associate which map to which name. I think this would be a simple addition that would improve the gaming experience. Thanks for reading!
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 721	Posted - 2014.03.01 05:04:00 - [2] - Quote Dear God yes. That way everytime I see Manus peak I can say nope. Also please add status:In Progress if the battle has started. Quit throwing me into matches that are nearly over.
Kairos Nitak Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 12	Posted - 2014.03.01 05:16:00 - [3] - Quote I couldn't agree more. It could also be easily added to the end of match screen (along with the final clone count and mcc health because COME ON! How hard is that!?)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1950	Posted - 2014.03.01 05:17:00 - [4] - Quote Yes please. Also would love to have that map table in the war barge working someday And oh how nice it would be to have the choice to avoid deployment on certain maps... it would also show the inherent map biases for and against certain fits thus creating some interesting data that could contribute to balance considerations for CCP... and if some map(s) weren't deployed into by most players it would help show which maps are broken or less than fun and give some guidance for development of future content as well. All in all Win-Win. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Mass Heals Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 143	Posted - 2014.03.01 05:20:00 - [5] - Quote Kairos Nitak wrote: I couldn't agree more. It could also be easily added to the end of match screen (along with the final clone count and mcc health because COME ON! How hard is that!?) I think in the beginning would be better to strategize before battle in the barge.
Soldier Sorajord Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 119	Posted - 2014.03.01 05:49:00 - [6] - Quote This + Warbarge Load = Strategy Dev for pubs, even if wait time is only around 10 seconds in barge. Click Here to set up a Character that will get an AR, SMG, and a Caldari BPO
Malkai Inos Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1163	Posted - 2014.03.01 05:52:00 - [7] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Yes please. Also would love to have that map table in the war barge working someday And oh how nice it would be to have the choice to avoid deployment on certain maps... it would also show the inherent map biases for and against certain fits thus creating some interesting data that could contribute to balance considerations for CCP... and if some map(s) weren't deployed into by most players it would help show which maps are broken or less than fun and give some guidance for development of future content as well. All in all Win-Win. 0.02 ISK Cross Absolutely yes to the table. I'm a bit more sceptic regarding the choice of map. Both from a gameplay and statistical perspective. In terms of gameplay, such an option would of course mean that players would avoid maps that are biased against their fit/playstyle or less fun for any other reason. This is in line with the stated purpose (i assume?) and would improve their overall performance as well as enjoyment of the game. However, the consequence of this is certain playstiles/fits becoming more/less prevalent on different maps which would essentially mean less variety per map.The better performing fits would eventually start to displace the worse performing ones completely through ever increasing performance pressure. The end result might be less choice for the player, not more. Regarding statistics, i think that the inherent map biases can be already determined by the actual outcome data which most likely are already being stored to generate after match screens and update leaderboards. Secondly. Any kind of active user voting (which avoiding a map would equate to in terms of data aquisition) is prone to the subjective biases of the "voting" player and reasons one might want to avoid a map are manyfold, such as bad client performance or plain personal preference, as well as possibly hard to distinguish between. Thus, while i might agree that the kind of data this would generate might be helpful, the method of aquisition seems to be less than optimal when it comes to reliability and i very much assume that a more objective means to get these data could be implemented without any front end changes or might even be in use right now. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Kairos Nitak Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 13	Posted - 2014.03.01 09:22:00 - [8] - Quote Mass Heals wrote: Kairos Nitak wrote: I couldn't agree more. It could also be easily added to the end of match screen (along with the final clone count and mcc health because COME ON! How hard is that!?) I think in the beginning would be better to strategize before battle in the barge. Also being the key word here. I agree it would serve a better purpose at the beginning of a match Cross Atu wrote: Yes please. Also would love to have that map table in the war barge working someday And oh how nice it would be to have the choice to avoid deployment on certain maps... it would also show the inherent map biases for and against certain fits thus creating some interesting data that could contribute to balance considerations for CCP... and if some map(s) weren't deployed into by most players it would help show which maps are broken or less than fun and give some guidance for development of future content as well. All in all Win-Win. 0.02 ISK Cross I think this is a terrible idea. Opting out on a match for any reason is cowardly, would ruin the game and shouldn't be encouraged. Diversity in opponents is one of the most important thing about this game. Learn to adapt to your surroundings and change your play style accordingly. Also doesn't work with lore, its not like Mercs would be like "ooo... yeh on that battleground? naaw.. i don't want to fight anymore."
The-Errorist 518	Posted - 2014.03.01 22:35:00 - [9] - Quote +1
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 437	Posted - 2014.03.01 23:32:00 - [10] - Quote +1

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1958	Posted - 2014.03.05 23:56:00 - [11] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Yes please. Also would love to have that map table in the war barge working someday And oh how nice it would be to have the choice to avoid deployment on certain maps... it would also show the inherent map biases for and against certain fits thus creating some interesting data that could contribute to balance considerations for CCP... and if some map(s) weren't deployed into by most players it would help show which maps are broken or less than fun and give some guidance for development of future content as well. All in all Win-Win. 0.02 ISK Cross Absolutely yes to the table. I'm a bit more sceptic regarding the choice of map. Both from a gameplay and statistical perspective. In terms of gameplay, such an option would of course mean that players would avoid maps that are biased against their fit/playstyle or less fun for any other reason. This is in line with the stated purpose (i assume?) and would improve their overall performance as well as enjoyment of the game. However, the consequence of this is certain playstiles/fits becoming more/less prevalent on different maps which would essentially mean less variety per map. The better performing fits would eventually start to displace the worse performing ones completely through ever increasing performance pressure. The end result might be less choice for the player, not more. Regarding statistics, i think that the inherent map biases can be already determined by the actual outcome data which most likely are already being stored to generate after match screens and update leaderboards. Secondly. Any kind of active user voting (which avoiding a map would equate to in terms of data aquisition) is prone to the subjective biases of the "voting" player and reasons one might want to avoid a map are manyfold, such as bad client performance or plain personal preference, as well as possibly hard to distinguish between. Thus, while i might agree that the kind of data this would generate might be helpful, the method of aquisition seems to be less than optimal when it comes to reliability and i very much assume that a more objective means to get these data could be implemented without any front end changes or might even be in use right now. I see what you're getting at here, at the current level of the player base may be a bit too small to support this idea at present, but the idea itself is actually stolen from SCII where ladder games are drawn from a random pool of maps (just like Dust) and where players can choose to personally 'down vote' 2-3 maps which matchmaking would then place as "last resort" for that player/squad when deploying them into a match. The system itself is pretty sound in that it has been tested and used effectively in a competitive online gaming system for years (albeit one of a somewhat different type). As to the effects on game diversity, that could happen, indeed already is happening in the current meta as a result of balance concerns. These concerns need to be addressed regardless and I think this method would push them further to the fore so while I see the concern I actually view it as the path to a positive. Beyond that Dust needs a more active sense of place, especially in the modes such as PC and FW, but really across the boards. Granted, again, population is a concern at this point, but for Dust to grow up and offer what it was billed as this needs to happen. From either a lore or game play perspective we're looking at a situation where there are choices that have meaning (or should) and are tactically driven. Some areas will offer more value for certain builds/fits on the field, indeed this is already true to a lessor degree, and there's really no reason (beyond player population, and current lack of balance) why mercs should be forced to go in blind stripped of choice about who to send into a fight and in what gear. Offering more support for these choices, and more options about which to make them, creates more incentive to develop a broad rather than flat skill progression thus giving value to character diversity as opposed to just looking for the next 'slayer FotM, I win button'. I acknowledge that a number of aspects of this are longer term but just because where not there yet doesn't mean it shouldn't be included in the conversation. CCP talks about developing Dust 514 on a ten year plan, this is the kind of thing that can absolutely be accomplished within less than a decade and I firmly believe it would not only improve game play and re-play value but also make Dust a more real part of New Eden in a meaningful manner. Cheers, Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 524	Posted - 2014.03.06 00:04:00 - [12] - Quote 10/10 CCP, make this happen. EDIT: The idea for the future of course is some kind of open world or something to make it actually feel like we're fighting on thousands of different worlds. Some sort of procedural generation or something based on the texture map of the planet in EVE (land masses, urban centers, etc.) and maybe some influence from PI structures. Until then, while we have pre-made maps with sockets, yes. Show the map names. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1958	Posted - 2014.03.06 00:13:00 - [13] - Quote Kairos Nitak wrote: Mass Heals wrote: Kairos Nitak wrote: I couldn't agree more. It could also be easily added to the end of match screen (along with the final clone count and mcc health because COME ON! How hard is that!?) I think in the beginning would be better to strategize before battle in the barge. Also being the key word here. I agree it would serve a better purpose at the beginning of a match Cross Atu wrote: Yes please. Also would love to have that map table in the war barge working someday And oh how nice it would be to have the choice to avoid deployment on certain maps... it would also show the inherent map biases for and against certain fits thus creating some interesting data that could contribute to balance considerations for CCP... and if some map(s) weren't deployed into by most players it would help show which maps are broken or less than fun and give some guidance for development of future content as well. All in all Win-Win. 0.02 ISK Cross I think this is a terrible idea. Opting out on a match for any reason is cowardly, would ruin the game and shouldn't be encouraged. Diversity in opponents is one of the most important thing about this game. Learn to adapt to your surroundings and change your play style accordingly. Also doesn't work with lore, its not like Mercs would be like "ooo... yeh on that battleground? naaw.. i don't want to fight anymore." I think your grasp of lore is a bit lacking here, capsuleers be they pirate, FW militia, incursion runner, Indy guy, w-Space, or from Null all absolutely choose their engagements prior to deployment of forces. From both a sandbox perspective and from a in game lore perspective there is zero reason why a merc would always take a contract blind. In a galaxy where the almighty ISK drives everything saying "yeah sure I'll risk my clones, gear, time, and reputation without any discretion, intel or planning" is not the mark of an effective or successful individual. As to being "cowardly" that's just silly use of hyperbole and doesn't stack up at all with either the in world history of events or IRL historic practices or tactical doctrines. As one example Sun Tzu references the importance of choosing the context for your battles repeatedly, both directly in sections such as Terrain and more abstractly in his comments on Maneuver, The Nine Variables, Marches etc. I agree that diversity is vital, but diversity is not created by cultivating constraints on player choice, diversity (and balance) are attained by allowing the true meta to develop and thrive. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System


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