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Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
112
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Posted - 2014.02.28 15:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
From what I've heard, RR outguns the HMG at close range, WHAT. That's incredibly ridiculous. A HMG should dominate every rifle at close range, except maybe CR and AR which are more like close range rifles.
Info/Testing would be appreciated. Any input as to data would help :)
Just wanted to point this out, because I think Heavies should be running HEAVY GUNS, not Light weapons.
Please post your information/Personal experience below. I'd like to see The two side by side, to actually see which is better at the moment.
Click Here to set up a Character that will get an AR, SMG, and a Caldari BPO
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Shadow Archeus
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
300
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Posted - 2014.02.28 15:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yup bogus ain't it
Real heavies use lasers
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ALT2 acc
162
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Posted - 2014.02.28 15:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shadow Archeus wrote:Yup bogus ain't it
The arr only does at pro
Hater attractor proficiency 5, hater attractor optimization 5.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9661
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
RRs are OP, but tey cannot outgun an HMG at close range. An RR is basically an AR with an TON of more range, but doesn't sacrifice any DPS for that range; it cannon out-DPS an HMG though.
An RR is overall more practical than an HMG in my opinion because of the good DPS combined with great range.The HMG has GREAT DPS, but only within short range.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
427
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soldier Sorajord wrote:I think Heavies should be running HEAVY GUNS.
Sounds great. Let's get some choices then.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
259
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Perhaps you should actually do the math before posting about it:
Proto RR: 465.3 DPS
461.54 RPM / 60 = 7.694 RPS (Rounds Per Second)
7.694 RPS * 60.5 damage per bullet = 465.487 DPS
Proto HMG: 792 DPS
2400 RPM / 60 = 40 RPS
40 RPS * 19.8 damage per bullet = 792 DPS
It's nowhere even close. |
D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1757
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Soldier Sorajord wrote:From what I've heard, RR outguns the HMG at close range, WHAT. That's incredibly ridiculous. A HMG should dominate every rifle at close range, except maybe CR and AR which are more like close range rifles.
Info/Testing would be appreciated. Any input as to data would help :)
Just wanted to point this out, because I think Heavies should be running HEAVY GUNS, not Light weapons.
Please post your information/Personal experience below. I'd like to see The two side by side, to actually see which is better at the moment.
Im not surprised ARs have been doing this since 1.0.
militia AR has so much DPS it can drop a heavy with max ehp (1600) in 4s. thats without damage mods and proficiency. With proficiency 5, it drops to 2.5-3 seconds to kill a heavy with 1600 ehp.
observe:
militia AR w/o damage mods or proficiency = 1600ehp/425 ehp/s = 3.76 seconds
militia AR w/ proficiency = 1600ehp/488.75ehp/s = 3.27 seconds ...most common by now
militia AR w/ profieciency and militia damage mod = 1600ehp/503.43ehp/s = 3.17 seconds
militia AR w/ proficiency and complex damage mod = 1600ehp/537.625ehp/s = 2.97 seconds ...Holy Shi....!
militia AR w/ proficiency and 2 complex damage mods = 1600ehp/571.83ehp/s = 2.79 seconds ... WTF!
now remember four things bout this:
1. this is a free militia AR we are talking about, many people still have blue print ARs.
2. This is burning through 1600 ehp the maximum ehp an amarr sentinel or basic can have.
3. The initial spool time for the HMG is 1 second which gives the AR user an advantage because they can get off 488.75 damage in one second.
4. the AR carries this dps out to much farther ranges than the HMG.
so, after that fist second, you just start dancing around abit and you killed a heavy! since, most heavies stack damage mods (because the HMG needs it), they feel its better just to stack complex damage mods on an AR since it is a superior weapon.
I have only pointed out the OPness of a standard miitia AR. The RR, and Scr rifles are worse. CR are only OP when some stacks damage mods. as a heavy i get dropped more by RR, Scr and AR than CR.
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1757
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:Perhaps you should actually do the math before posting about it:
Proto RR: 465.3 DPS
461.54 RPM / 60 = 7.694 RPS (Rounds Per Second)
7.694 RPS * 60.5 damage per bullet = 465.487 DPS
Proto HMG: 792 DPS
2400 RPM / 60 = 40 RPS
40 RPS * 19.8 damage per bullet = 792 DPS
It's nowhere even close.
yeah. But remember, 792DPS * 0 rounds hitting target = 0DPS. for the first second after you press the trigger on an HMG your bullets are flying everywhere, you are doing nothing even close to 792DPS.
so, thats alreagy 465dps on you, not including profieicency or damage mods. on top of that, just a coupe of feet away and you insta-lose to a RR. combined with higher moblity and medium frames beat heavy frames all day.
dnt forget that hit detection hurts the HMG badly.
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1757
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
dnt forget if your using a standard heavy suit, your average suit has 1200-1300 ehp. so, all my above calculations in post #7, are virtually doubled.
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
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killertojo42
Sardaukar Merc Guild
35
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Posted - 2014.02.28 19:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Heavies are designed to be head on crowd clearers, it sounds like you guys are just talking about one on one engagements where in most cases i've found and including me people will fall back to using range, i'm on my to fully skilling out ARs and within a couple days will have proficiency level four, i'm level three and will only as a last ditch, I'm in a corner situation fight a heavy at close range, the only weapon i might feel i can win CQ on heavy with is a CR and that's if the heavy is low level, you heavies really have nothing to fear from a RR at CQ
When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
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xSir Campsalotx
G0DS AM0NG MEN
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
132
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Posted - 2014.02.28 22:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
The only weapons that can outgun a HMG in cqc is any RE, grenade spam, combat rifles, shotguns and scrambler rifles. Rail rifle in the back will pretty much kill you before you can turn around but only in the back.
G0DS AM0NG MEN Director
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Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
262
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Posted - 2014.02.28 23:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:
yeah. But remember, 792DPS * 0 rounds hitting target = 0DPS. for the first second after you press the trigger on an HMG your bullets are flying everywhere, you are doing nothing even close to 792DPS.
so, thats alreagy 465dps on you, not including profieicency or damage mods. on top of that, just a coupe of feet away and you insta-lose to a RR. combined with higher moblity and medium frames beat heavy frames all day.
dnt forget that hit detection hurts the HMG badly.
If you can't clean the floor with the HMG at CQC in a straight fight then you aren't a good heavy. If the other player uses his strengths against your weaknesses to try and beat you despite having considerably less eHP and DPS then don't blame him for being intelligent. Being a heavy with an HMG isn't a insta-win CQC button.
Also consider that, unless it's a proto suit or another heavy, 792 is more eHP than most suits have. If in your optimal range you will kill almost anyone in less than 1 second and almost certainly within 2 if you can aim, whereas it can take up to 2-4+ seconds to kill you (even more so if not all the shots are making contact due to trying to avoid your CQC death ray).
Honestly I don't know what you are complaining about. The HMG is a CQC beast and if skilled players are managing to beat you, despite all the advantages you have, in CQC then it isn't the guns fault.
td;lr The HMG/heavy suit isn't an insta-win for CQC battles, respect skill and good tactics |
Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
116
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Posted - 2014.03.01 04:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
I guess RR is better at a longer range span, however.
Click Here to set up a Character that will get an AR, SMG, and a Caldari BPO
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Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
116
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Posted - 2014.03.01 04:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:Perhaps you should actually do the math before posting about it:
Proto RR: 465.3 DPS
461.54 RPM / 60 = 7.694 RPS (Rounds Per Second)
7.694 RPS * 60.5 damage per bullet = 465.487 DPS
Proto HMG: 792 DPS
2400 RPM / 60 = 40 RPS
40 RPS * 19.8 damage per bullet = 792 DPS
It's nowhere even close.
BTW I don't have statistics sheets in front of me. Plus, each of those is max DPS if every round hits the target. Just an important thing to note that what you actually calculate doesn't actually have that high output, especially with an HMG due to its spread mechanics.
Click Here to set up a Character that will get an AR, SMG, and a Caldari BPO
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Gabriel Ceja
Knights of Eternal Darkness
League of Infamy
1
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Posted - 2014.03.01 08:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yup it is pretty crazy when you got a heavy with a rail rifle charging straight into the HMG with no fear and to top it off winning the battle at such close range where the HMG is suppose to be dominant and most efficient.
My tank is my dropsuit, it's kinda like your dropsuit...umm Only bigger, but just a little. :)
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Derpty Derp
It's All Gone Derp
42
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Posted - 2014.03.01 08:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
With the event here I specced 1 point into HMG... I'll say vs a proto rail rifle the basic HMG is 50/50 you can hold against it, but it's down to who gets the jump on who as well as who jumps around more and misses every bullet, lol.
xSir Campsalotx wrote:The only weapons that can outgun a HMG in cqc is any RE, grenade spam, combat rifles, shotguns and scrambler rifles. Rail rifle in the back will pretty much kill you before you can turn around but only in the back.
You can outgun a heavy with anything if you're fast enough... I once beat one using the free medic suit, just ran head on at him then jumped behind him while he was firing, what followed were a few seconds of dancing around each other while I emptied both guns into him... Eventually the elephant gave in and died. |
xSir Campsalotx
G0DS AM0NG MEN
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
132
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Posted - 2014.03.01 09:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
From a mathematical standpoint it's hard to outgun a heavy but this doesn't account for a heavy's large hit box and his relatively weak strafe. Combine these with the HMGs high dispersion and a medium suits ability to lol strafe, with pinpoint accurate weapons with and over 1000dps the odds are quickly evened. This is not even accounting for a heavy's inability to effectively avoid damage.
G0DS AM0NG MEN Director
Preferred fit 1 complex damage mod, 2 mlt kin cats, basic HMG, flux grenade on a std sentinel
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Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
556
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Posted - 2014.03.01 12:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
I've recently started using HMG, I only have HMG operation 1, 0 points into heavy suits, my heavy's combined shields and armor is 1050, and within 10 meters the only thing that can outgun me is a a heavy with a better suit or gun (although alot of the time I also win that fight). There is the odd boundless combat rifle or proto rail rifle that gets through but usually it's because they're at greater range.
I used to be able to outgun heavies with a basic combat rifle and I haven't tried it out recently but it looks like HMGs got a ninja buff, increasing their rate of fire from 2000 to 2400 rpm, which make a significant difference, my suit costs about 3500 isk and yet I rarely go through any match where my ending ratio is below 1.5.
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1770
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Posted - 2014.03.02 05:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
xSir Campsalotx wrote:The only weapons that can outgun a HMG in cqc is any RE, grenade spam, combat rifles, shotguns and scrambler rifles. Rail rifle in the back will pretty much kill you before you can turn around but only in the back.
if a CR can out gun an HMG, a plasma rifle, RR, and Scr can do it too. trust me.
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
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xSir Campsalotx
G0DS AM0NG MEN
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
133
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Posted - 2014.03.02 07:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
I would say yes a SCR does and possibly a rail rifle.
G0DS AM0NG MEN Director
Preferred fit 1 complex damage mod, 2 mlt kin cats, basic HMG, flux grenade on a std sentinel
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