AREYOUTHAT STUPID
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
13
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Posted - 2014.03.02 15:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Snagman 313 wrote:Hmmmm quite a few interesting comments, I think I'll stick my oar in as well.
Overall I agree with Bamm's comments made in his video, which I believe is more of an outline for a fix to some of the current problems we face in Dust rather than a set in stone approach such as the proposed Rail tank nerf or infantry deployment being moved way back.
I will not suggest that there is not an issue with the balance between Infantry and vehicles but stat wise things are pretty good right now. The current Tankbush and Tankspam pales in comparison to the Missile tank crisis back in Closed Beta but we can't look to the same methods used to fix that incident to fix this one or we will see Tanks set back to 1.6 levels and we will get nowhere.
As much as I dislike Tanks without them I would lead a somewhat lacklustre time in Dust and they do provide a much needed service on the battlefield. Got a Protobear team tearing up your Militia gear team call in a Soma it might not last long but it'll give you some breathing room or maybe Duna corp is on the rampage with 4 Madrugars, get those Sica's inbound. Everyone can use them and they provide New or Skill impaired players a viable option to engage with players who are way ahead of them.
Now most people just say get your AV gear out but I do not see it that way, at least not anymore. Yes we have militia Forge guns and Swarms however without a lot of SP invested they will always require a team of mercs equipped to down even a half decent Tank. And this is where you will find the true AV specialists cutting their teeth, since they will have to use harsh tactics and quick decision making to achieve a result thus giving them the rewarding experience of their first Solo Tank kill.
However some folks are not cut out for AV, the lack of mobility, the vulnerability, low KDR, minimal ISK, low WP. And for these players I see a real use for the Railgun tank, it is a vehicle destroyer and occasional uber heavy sniper for bursting rooftop Forgers!!! Also in the hands of a skilled user it is pretty much the only hard 1 for 1 counter to a Proto Baster Maddy so before we go all Nerfhammer on it's ass let's look at some of the possible outcomes of a Railgun tank nerf.
Even some so called light nerf options like reducing it's elevation could really hurt it's ability to engage ground targets while driving over rough terrain or down a slope. My opinion is if you reduce it's turret angles it will drive them further into the redline so they can pick and choose their shots or cause a proliferation of another fit.
This is the sort of knock on effect nerfing has in my experience, just look at the tower forging phase we recently went through. Why did all the heavies suddenly take the Forge gun up too the roof? Well actually most of the old hands had been at it for a while but it was the FOTM players who caused the raging by cottoning on to what we were doing since the HMG had been nerfed into the stone age after Codex hit. So we saw tower forging because the HMG was nerfed and Heavies had to look for a way to stay competitive.
Still don't believe me, Suicide Lav's have always been about but only recently became highly popular due to the Swarm nerf and the nice addition of sticky RE's. So players with and without high skills in swarms looked for a quick and easy way to stem the proliferation of Tanks.
If Tanks are forced into the fight they can be destroyed by any weapon capable of a high enough damage output. Right now I have beef with all vehicles abusing the redline by running back and waiting for their modules to recharge be it LAV, DS or HAV I see all pilots do it. If a Redline Rail tank where to set up at the back of a map where a system similar to the one Bamm suggests it could be countered by loading a DS with Forgunners and flying like a maniac then dumping the mercs right at it's doorstep.
Yes you may die maybe even quite a few times but it could be done, I have to accept that I will most likely die multiple times while engaging a HAV or ADS that's just the way it is. Even if it where to run inside the shield and hide while recharging it's modules it would still need to come out again and this window would give the rest of your team time to win objectives or call in some long range firepower of your own.
I still move for Meta level locked matches being made available for Newberries or those looking for a change away from the Protobear swarms. We have the Metalevel system so why not use it? Then at least we won't have people stuck using Militia Swarms against Gunnlogis and rage quitting.
Both Judge and Bamm make good points in their respective Railgun tank vids, I have spoken to both of them about their various views however I tend to err away from nerfs having been at the sharp end of far to many to be happy seeing it happen to other players. I would like to look at altering the environment of play by encouraging AV amongst players and making HAV's come out into the open while keeping their unique features i.e Rails=Hard counter to vehicles, Blaster=Beach head gun emplacement. Certainly if you got a cool 500 WP for destroying an HAV people would sit up and take notice of that delicious freshly ground flavourGǪGǪ.
You have been Judged...chooo chooo mother F'ers, chooo chooo |
AREYOUTHAT STUPID
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
15
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Posted - 2014.03.02 16:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
In 1.7 both av AND tanks got a nerf. Most people forget that...
My tank in 1.6 was super pricey, but it was nasty. If I played all night and lost more than one tank I was pissed. My tank had just over 7,000 armor, and around 1,200 shields. I had a rotation of 3 complex hardeners going at all times so I constantly had a hardener up, and a complex heavy rep to cover any damage I might receive through them. Contrast that today, with 4000 armor and 1,200 shields...with 2 hardeners that I throw on for battle, then have to back off to let cool down. Aaaaand did we forget now I have to reload? What about run back to get more ammo? I have been a dedicated tanker now for about a year, so I have seen the changes (both good and bad).
My 1.6 tank would run a r@pe train on my 1.7 tank. Everyone sees 1.7 as a buff to tanks, when it was actually the opposite. Why we are having the issue is due to the prolific nature of militia tanks. Since anybody can shell out a modest amount of ISK to run a tank, any blueberry troll can drop a tank. This is good and bad. Good in the fact that as snags pointed out in his epic post about tanks, a militia sica is the new guys answer to fighting other tanks on the field. For no SP, and very little ISK...a new player can combat any guy with 10 mil+ SP dedicated to tanking. Bad, in the fact that for no SP, and very little ISK...a new player can have something on the field stronger than all the infantry around him. For the cost of one of my advanced level drop suits, a nooby with no SP in anything is now rolling around destroying infantry who are wearing Protobear gear. Who wouldn't do it? That is the broken mechanic here. Imagine buying a copy of BF4 and playing multiplayer. You are getting absolutely demolished, going 1 and 20 k/d....ohhh, but wait. You can now drop a tank and kill all these players around you that have been playing the game for much longer than you. And you make enough per round to buy 6 of them. Best yet, you don't have to expend any of your very limited SP to do it! It would never happen, because it would be foolish to place something so powerful in a game like that and have it open to a player that just started. Right?
That is the player that is looking for the low investment, high reward game style. Make all the players that want to drop a tank expend the SP it takes to get level 5 vehicle operations, and then see if we still have a tank problem. I bet it would vanish overnight.
Thoughts? |