| Pages: 1 2  :: [one page] | 
      
      
        | Author | Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) | 
      
      
        |  Egonz4
 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
 DARKSTAR ARMY
 
 64
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 05:44:00 -
          [1] - Quote 
 Lately I've been getting really worried about this game. With all the next gen hits coming out, people are gonna start forgetting about Dust. Lately Dust has seemed like it hasn't been going anywhere, and I'm worried that it might dwindle away. Don't get me wrong I still think Dust is the best game out there, but these next few months have to make Dust a new game. I really do hope and believe that when 1.8 hits it will be the start of a new Dust. Ccp saber wing said he was more excited about Dusts future than ever before, which gets me excited and hopefull for the future. CCP has to start changing this game into the Dust 514 that we know it can be. This next year will be the deciding fate of Dust, it will either rise to be a well known game or dwindle away...no better way to start off the new Dust than with a full respec! :D
 
 MASTER OF THE FLAYLOCK | 
      
      
        |  The Attorney General
 
 2258
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 05:47:00 -
          [2] - Quote 
 Of course CCP will say they are excited about where the game is going.
 
 They also called dust a AAA title.
 
 Adjust your expectations accordingly.
 
 Mr. Hybrid Vayu. | 
      
      
        |  Ludvig Enraga
 KILL-EM-QUICK
 RISE of LEGION
 
 914
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 06:00:00 -
          [3] - Quote 
 lol @ 'lately'.
 
 PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t. | 
      
      
        |  Marc Rime
 
 289
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 06:08:00 -
          [4] - Quote 
 The next few months or the next build or whatever has supposedly decided everything for over a year already. However, if that had been the case, the game would either be a huge success or dead and abandoned by now, which it isn't.
 
 There's no reason to worry... but don't get your hopes too high for 1.8 either - even if it turns out to be a really good update, that's all it is, an update.
 | 
      
      
        |  Malkai Inos
 Onikanabo Brigade
 Caldari State
 
 1146
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 06:22:00 -
          [5] - Quote 
 We've had "the next big dust killer" come and go so many times now with no long term impact on player numbers that i'm pretty sure the only ones holding the power to kill dust are CCP themselves.
 
 Time will tell...
 
 You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source... | 
      
      
        |  Lorhak Gannarsein
 Science For Death
 
 1836
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 06:51:00 -
          [6] - Quote 
 Wow... That is quite a... paragraph. Not quite sure what it said, but judging by the responses, I probably agree.
 
 Line breaks are your friend.
 
 Forge on for great justice! Defend the meek! Destroy the weak! Q-sync breaches into the rectum of everyone else! | 
      
      
        |  Eberk Baldek
 Isuuaya Tactical
 Caldari State
 
 38
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 07:03:00 -
          [7] - Quote 
 
 Egonz4 wrote:Lately I've been getting really worried about this game. With all the next gen hits coming out, people are gonna start forgetting about Dust. Lately Dust has seemed like it hasn't been going anywhere, and I'm worried that it might dwindle away. Don't get me wrong I still think Dust is the best game out there, but these next few months have to make Dust a new game. I really do hope and believe that when 1.8 hits it will be the start of a new Dust. Ccp saber wing said he was more excited about Dusts future than ever before, which gets me excited and hopefull for the future. CCP has to start changing this game into the Dust 514 that we know it can be. This next year will be the deciding fate of Dust, it will either rise to be a well known game or dwindle away...no better way to start off the new Dust than with a full respec! :D 
 Naaah! CCP will do OK. Maybe you're just feeling a wee bit depressed because you've been pubstomped one too many times lately? Be patient. We'll be hearing all about what's coming next in Fanfest in May.
 
 | 
      
      
        |  Maken Tosch
 DUST University
 Ivy League
 
 7043
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 07:17:00 -
          [8] - Quote 
 Considering that CCP Rouge (our Executive Producer with a lot of years experience) has been shaking things up recently and with the new 1.8 stats being posted far ahead of time for our feedback, things are starting to look promising.
 
 If you want to know more about this guy, here is a link.
 http://themittani.com/news/ccp-name-dust-514-executive-producer
 
 Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor | 
      
      
        |  Iron Wolf Saber
 Den of Swords
 
 13211
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 07:45:00 -
          [9] - Quote 
 understatement of the year...
 
 CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked | 
      
      
        |  DUST Fiend
 OSG Planetary Operations
 Covert Intervention
 
 11635
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 07:48:00 -
          [10] - Quote 
 I've just lost my ability to really care or get excited for this game anymore.
 
 Not even in a bad way, despite my somewhat frequent rage at this game, just kind of a cold neutrality at this point.
 
 I don't care if this game suddenly becomes amazing and fantastic, nor do I care if they shut off the servers tomorrow.
 
 I just don't care anymore.
 
 Videos / Fiction  Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot | 
      
      
        |  Maken Tosch
 DUST University
 Ivy League
 
 7044
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 07:59:00 -
          [11] - Quote 
 
 DUST Fiend wrote:I've just lost my ability to really care or get excited for this game anymore. 
 Not even in a bad way, despite my somewhat frequent rage at this game, just kind of a cold neutrality at this point.
 
 I don't care if this game suddenly becomes amazing and fantastic, nor do I care if they shut off the servers tomorrow.
 
 I just don't care anymore.
 
 You're starting to remind me of the Eve Online players who don't care about this game.
 
 Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor | 
      
      
        |  Joel II X
 Dah Gods O Bacon
 
 1320
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 08:21:00 -
          [12] - Quote 
 I know a few people saying that 1.8 will either make or break Dust.
 
 I just don't get it. Because new suits are coming? Unless you're a logistics player, I just don't get it.
 
 I'll still stick by for a few. Although, if my corp mates leave, I leave. Don't care about anyone else.
 | 
      
      
        |  Syeven Reed
 RETR0 PR0 GAMERS
 
 432
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 08:40:00 -
          [13] - Quote 
 Im sure someone said this a few months ago.. o.0
 
 Gÿé Syeven 514 | 
      
      
        |  Pvt Numnutz
 Black Phoenix Mercenaries
 
 826
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 08:45:00 -
          [14] - Quote 
 With the next halo game I mean err....destiny we !might see numbers drop for a little, new shiney games come and go but dust will remain and continue to get better.
 | 
      
      
        |  INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
 Intara Direct Action
 Caldari State
 
 382
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 08:46:00 -
          [15] - Quote 
 
 Malkai Inos wrote:We've had "the next big dust killer" come and go so many times now with no long term impact on player numbers that i'm pretty sure the only ones holding the power to kill dust are CCP themselves.
 Time will tell...
 You think the numbers are good? How many new playersmare people making alts to farm isk?
 | 
      
      
        |  Quik Django
 Nos Nothi
 
 17
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 09:11:00 -
          [16] - Quote 
 Oh, we get this nonsense every now and again - AC4 is going to destroy dust; GTA V is going to destroy dust; PS4 is going to destroy dust; these new PS4 games are going to destroy dust.
 
 When are people going to give up the doom-mongering? I guess never.
 
 It's not going to happen, people. Dust will plod along like it always has done. Yes, we'll take hits when big stuff comes out but the game will continue. We'll gain a few here or there, like when the MAG servers shut down and maybe people will return when there's big updates or exciting stuff happening, like 1.8 or Fanfest.
 
 The next few months may well 'decide the future of dust' but the same is true for any few months at any point during the game's development and for that matter any game run as a service.
 
 Django Quik's alt if you hadn't figured that one out! | 
      
      
        |  COVERT SUBTERFUGE
 PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
 DARKSTAR ARMY
 
 407
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 09:30:00 -
          [17] - Quote 
 The ups and downs of the game's development are all part and parcel of being part of a work in progress like this. DUST 514 will either be the game everyone always hoped for or it will be taken from TQ and scrapped and I'll be here till the end to find out which path it ends up taking
  . I have confidence in the new EP and am hopeful and optimistic about the game's future. Shock horror! I know optimism is totally out of fashion on these forums.  
 Subterfuge and terrorist GOD in the making Proud Minmatar - Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL Love the Art of War | 
      
      
        |  Spectral Clone
 Dust2Dust.
 Top Men.
 
 1418
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 10:00:00 -
          [18] - Quote 
 Not the first time I have heard this one...
 
 Dust will never be a huge AAA blockbuster game, so dont expect it, ever. It will always be a niche game with a medium size community.
 
 Drop it like its hat. | 
      
      
        |  Auris Lionesse
 Capital Acquisitions LLC
 Renegade Alliance
 
 287
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 10:22:00 -
          [19] - Quote 
 I've been worried about this game since I started playing.
 Missing pc, eve interaction, player market, and an even number of suits and weapons for each race.
 The ps2 graphics, recurring bugs, glitches and crashing. This game should have betad on ps4.
 | 
      
      
        |  Horizen Kenpachi
 Kenpachi's Castle
 
 213
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 10:50:00 -
          [20] - Quote 
 
 Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Wow... That is quite a... paragraph. Not quite sure what it said, but judging by the responses, I probably agree.
 Line breaks are your friend.
 And their ur only friend.
 
 Hit me with your nerf bat. | 
      
      
        |  Monkey MAC
 Rough Riders..
 
 2075
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 12:08:00 -
          [21] - Quote 
 
 INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:We've had "the next big dust killer" come and go so many times now with no long term impact on player numbers that i'm pretty sure the only ones holding the power to kill dust are CCP themselves.
 Time will tell...
 You think the numbers are good? How many new playersmare people making alts to farm isk? 
 Considering we have no form of advertisement, no methods of gaining vast numbers of new players, we have been pretty constant.
 "Good Numbers" are entirely relative.
 
 The fact of the matter is people have been saying they are leaving for months, yet our numbers are about the same, so we are replenishing those numbers from somewhere, I even met a new guy in public, he'd been playing for 2 hours, he was enjoying it, but didn't quite understand. I helped him out and now he enjoys it.
 
 Combat Engineer in training. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2. | 
      
      
        |  CYRAX SERVIUS
 Death Firm.
 Canis Eliminatus Operatives
 
 1032
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 13:03:00 -
          [22] - Quote 
 
 Spectral Clone wrote:Not the first time I have heard this one...
 Dust will never be a huge AAA blockbuster game, so dont expect it, ever. It will always be a niche game with a medium size community.
 Exactly, this game caters to a unique type of player base, only found here. Destiny will be an incredible game of itself with enough differences that will separate itself from Dust that Dust will survive, but, Destiny look REALLY good.
 
 CEO Whiskey squad leader Invictus Maneo~"I Remain Unvanquished"~ | 
      
      
        |  Sam Tektzby
 Better Hide R Die
 
 263
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 13:08:00 -
          [23] - Quote 
 
 Egonz4 wrote:Lately I've been getting really worried about this game. With all the next gen hits coming out, people are gonna start forgetting about Dust. Lately Dust has seemed like it hasn't been going anywhere, and I'm worried that it might dwindle away. Don't get me wrong I still think Dust is the best game out there, but these next few months have to make Dust a new game. I really do hope and believe that when 1.8 hits it will be the start of a new Dust. Ccp saber wing said he was more excited about Dusts future than ever before, which gets me excited and hopefull for the future. CCP has to start changing this game into the Dust 514 that we know it can be. This next year will be the deciding fate of Dust, it will either rise to be a well known game or dwindle away...no better way to start off the new Dust than with a full respec! :D 
 Agree, but on autumn time there wil be a big mpact on community. The DESTINY comming.
 
 Support - Tactician/Support Deteis - Orator | 
      
      
        |  Maken Tosch
 DUST University
 Ivy League
 
 7046
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 14:49:00 -
          [24] - Quote 
 
 CYRAX SERVIUS wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Not the first time I have heard this one...
 Dust will never be a huge AAA blockbuster game, so dont expect it, ever. It will always be a niche game with a medium size community.
 Exactly, this game caters to a unique type of player base, only found here. Destiny will be an incredible game of itself with enough differences that will separate itself from Dust that Dust will survive, but, Destiny look REALLY good. 
 Last time I checked, destiny isn't even trying to compete against DUST.
 
 Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor | 
      
      
        |  DUST Fiend
 OSG Planetary Operations
 Covert Intervention
 
 11652
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 15:08:00 -
          [25] - Quote 
 
 Pvt Numnutz wrote:With the next halo game I mean err....destiny we !might see numbers drop for a little, new shiney games come and go but dust will remain and continue to get better. While this is true, it kind of upsets me that people almost seem to imply that other games don't also improve as time goes on.
 
 Sure, you may need to shell out another $60 here and there, but you also receive a whole new updated and more technologically superior (in most cases, at least) game.
 
 So, while it's cool that DUST is free and is always being updated, it's not fair to imply that other games don't receive similar love from their devs as well. DUST isn't the only game that gets updated.
 
 Videos / Fiction  Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot | 
      
      
        |  Egonz4
 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
 DARKSTAR ARMY
 
 67
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 15:35:00 -
          [26] - Quote 
 
 Iron Wolf Saber wrote:understatement of the year... Well first off thx for commenting on my post :D
 Secondly it's not much of an understatement, all I'm saying is that if Dust doesn't become a better game within this next year... It will probably start losing its player base.
 
 People are still playing Dust cuz of the hopeful future it brings. And after barely getting the stuff promised at fanfest, 2014 better be a great Dust year.
 
 MASTER OF THE FLAYLOCK | 
      
      
        |  shadow drake35
 Mocking Bird Inc.
 
 65
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 15:36:00 -
          [27] - Quote 
 
 Egonz4 wrote:Lately I've been getting really worried about this game. With all the next gen hits coming out, people are gonna start forgetting about Dust. Lately Dust has seemed like it hasn't been going anywhere, and I'm worried that it might dwindle away. 
 Don't get me wrong I still think Dust is the best game out there, but these next few months have to make Dust a new game. I really do hope and believe that when 1.8 hits it will be the start of a new Dust. Ccp saber wing said he was more excited about Dusts future than ever before, which gets me excited and hopefull for the future. CCP has to start changing this game into the Dust 514 that we know it can be.
 
 This next year will be the deciding fate of Dust, it will either rise to be a well known game or dwindle away...no better way to start off the new Dust than with a full respec! :D
 planetside 2 on ps4 will kill dust
 
 The Mercenary Way
Who careswhat i use as long as the job is done and i get paid. | 
      
      
        |  Egonz4
 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
 DARKSTAR ARMY
 
 67
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 15:38:00 -
          [28] - Quote 
 
 CYRAX SERVIUS wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Not the first time I have heard this one...
 Dust will never be a huge AAA blockbuster game, so dont expect it, ever. It will always be a niche game with a medium size community.
 Exactly, this game caters to a unique type of player base, only found here. Destiny will be an incredible game of itself with enough differences that will separate itself from Dust that Dust will survive, but, Destiny look REALLY good. We one day should have the same amount of Dust players there is EvE players, is what I meant. And Ido believe Dust will be a respected game one of these days, with the type of player ase we had in open beta.
 
 MASTER OF THE FLAYLOCK | 
      
      
        |  General John Ripper
 Onslaught Inc
 RISE of LEGION
 
 18903
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 15:41:00 -
          [29] - Quote 
 I have noticed that the game started dying 10 times faster when i left. I also regret telling my friends " fk these e-peen scrubs, just lock everything down." now pc is dead too.
 
 The state of this game is all my fault. don't blame ccp, blame ripper.
 
 A taco is born and eaten everytime a post is liked. Such is the cycle of life. | 
      
      
        |  Onesimus Tarsus
 
 1241
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 15:45:00 -
          [30] - Quote 
 
 DUST Fiend wrote:I've just lost my ability to really care or get excited for this game anymore. 
 Not even in a bad way, despite my somewhat frequent rage at this game, just kind of a cold neutrality at this point.
 
 I don't care if this game suddenly becomes amazing and fantastic, nor do I care if they shut off the servers tomorrow.
 
 I just don't care anymore.
 
 Yeah, that's where am too.
 
 
 I'm recruiting only the hardest hard-core-rers out there who are in here.
cc2.27.13 | 
      
      
        |  Reav Hannari
 Red Rock Outriders
 
 3083
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 16:04:00 -
          [31] - Quote 
 "These next few months will decide everything!!!" is the mandatory chant right before new patches.
 
 
 shadow drake35 wrote:planetside 2 on ps4 will kill dust 
 Planetside 2 has been mentioned as a DUST killer many times before as have many other games. You may switch gears to PS2 but players come and go as they do in all games.
 
 DUST is a slow burn kind of game that suits a particular kind of player. It doesn't hold your hand and is outright hostile for the rookies. It's not for everyone and will probably never be really big. For the people that like this kind of game it's the one you return to and play while waiting for the next big flashy but short lived title. Once it contains PVE and a better new player experience then CCP will turn on the marketing machine to capture that wider audience that can't survive in the current environment. That is the big opportunity to "decide everything."
 
 // Lance Commander // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana | 
      
      
        |  Egonz4
 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
 DARKSTAR ARMY
 
 67
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 16:39:00 -
          [32] - Quote 
 
 General John Ripper wrote:I have noticed that the game started dying 10 times faster when i left. I also regret telling my friends " fk these e-peen scrubs, just lock everything down." now pc is dead too.
 The state of this game is all my fault. don't blame ccp, blame ripper.
 Haha, yeah ive heard of the legendary John Ripper, but that might not be the whole problem :D
 any chance u gonna be doin anymore giveaways anytime soon?
 
 MASTER OF THE FLAYLOCK | 
      
      
        |  Maken Tosch
 DUST University
 Ivy League
 
 7046
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 16:59:00 -
          [33] - Quote 
 
 Reav Hannari wrote:"These next few months will decide everything!!!" is the mandatory chant right before new patches. shadow drake35 wrote:planetside 2 on ps4 will kill dust Planetside 2 has been mentioned as a DUST killer many times before as have many other games. You may switch gears to PS2 but players come and go as they do in all games. DUST is a slow burn kind of game that suits a particular kind of player. It doesn't hold your hand and is outright hostile for the rookies. It's not for everyone and will probably never be really big. For the people that like this kind of game it's the one you return to and play while waiting for the next big flashy but short lived title. Once it contains PVE and a better new player experience then CCP will turn on the marketing machine to capture that wider audience that can't survive in the current environment. That is the big opportunity to "decide everything." 
 Pretty much this.
 
 I have heard Planetside 2 being touted by many of its fanbois as the true Dust killer, but the fact of the matter is that this has been brought up even before Dust got released back in May 14, 2013. Hell, even before its transition to open beta back in January on that same year. Same thing with Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc.
 
 Even MAG was once touted as a potential Dust killer during the early part of closed beta. But as of January 2014 Mag shut down its servers for good but by then many of the MAG players migrated here to Dust and settled down. SVER True Blood [STB] are mostly MAG vets as one example. But in honor of MAG, some Dust players who were lucky to be here early on have in their possession the blueprints for the "MAG Tribute" suits. It's interesting that even though MAG was the supposed competitor to Dust, CCP honored the game with the MAG Tribute suits. At least MAG will be remembered. o7
 
 Many more games in general (even some that were not even on the PS3) were already brought up as potential Dust killers, but so far after an entire year since release Dust is still around and chugging along.
 
 My point?
 
 Ignore the doom and gloom. It's the same **** just a different day.
 
 I have seen the same thing in other genres.
 
 Microsoft Flight Simulator was believed to crush Laminar Research's X-Plane, but MSFS is no more. In fact, MS shut down the studio and now Lockheed Martin bought the rights to the simulator and turned it into a training tool instead called Prepar3D. On the plus side, Lockheed Martin has hired the original Aces Studios team to develop the new software and thus Prepar3D is also compatible with any of the Microsoft Flight Simulator X addons. But Lockheed is not competing against Laminar Research since Lockheed is not the in business of making commercial sims.
 
 EA's Earth & Beyond was considered the definite Eve Online killer back in 2003 after EA laughed at CCP and rejected the idea of Eve Online after CCP originally asked EA to publish their game. A few years later, EA's Earth & Beyond shut down its servers and many of the displaced players migrated to Eve Online. Even CCP hired people who use to work for EA such as CCP Rouge and many others. EA never forgave CCP for that.
  
 You see this everywhere in every genre. People say that Game "X" will crush Game "Y" but then Game "X" shuts down or doesn't do as well anymore or people lose interest in it.
 
 Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor | 
      
      
        |  Asher Night
 Molon Labe.
 General Tso's Alliance
 
 479
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 17:41:00 -
          [34] - Quote 
 
 Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Wow... That is quite a... paragraph. Not quite sure what it said, but judging by the responses, I probably agree.
 Line breaks are your friend.
 It looks like the OP edited it to have line breaks now, but was it seriously that hard for you to read? Man do I feel smart when I meet people like you.
 | 
      
      
        |  Pvt Numnutz
 Black Phoenix Mercenaries
 
 829
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.02.27 19:42:00 -
          [35] - Quote 
 
 DUST Fiend wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:With the next halo game I mean err....destiny we !might see numbers drop for a little, new shiney games come and go but dust will remain and continue to get better. While this is true, it kind of upsets me that people almost seem to imply that other games don't also improve as time goes on. Sure, you may need to shell out another $60 here and there, but you also receive a whole new updated and more technologically superior (in most cases, at least) game.  So, while it's cool that DUST is free and is always being updated, it's not fair to imply that other games don't receive similar love from their devs as well. DUST isn't the only game that gets updated.  True, and don't get me wrong, I are ordered destiny and am going to be playing the beta soon. The halo joke I made was more about bungie, I mean it is basically halo, I can see the elites and grunts and jackals and hunters. But I'm excited for a few mechanics and pve. (PvP looks awful)
 
 There has been a trend lately with these triple A titles, they aren't delivering on some aspects of their games or coping out. GTA 5 still hasn't added heists for multiplayer (and I doubt they ever will) BF4 messed up with their dlc and then added all the bf3 maps.....great.....that's new. Cod did okay with their dlc but let's face it, its cod. The only good thing about ghosts is extinction which is actually pretty fun, but with all these games you have to shell out more if you want more. "Buy the exclusive entry pack and get access to the dlc's plus rare guns just 50 bucks more!"
 
 I'll still get a few games, and I'll enjoy them. I plan on enjoying destiny, but when I beat it, or it gets old, or I have to buy more crap to keep progressing I'm going back to dust, hell I'll probably be switching between them anyway.
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