I guess that makes sense, I'd have about the same health if I had a bunch of extenders on, it would be great not to be hunted down 24/7

I know scanners and weapons are getting fixed but I heard nothing about damage mods, no info passed "getting looked at"? I mean that's good enough for me but if they have a plan they let us in on that would be great, haven't seen a dev blog since january.

So let's get some armor mods in the high slots lol. You're right that the main problem is still defense or damage and that I think comes from the fact that there's just no use for other modules, and I mean that literally, there is just nothing else to do in this game but war and when you go to war you bring things that keep you alive and things that make other things go boom. We can't go mine asteroids or direct the troops or team's defenses, this is self evident from the fact that there is no current suit that has the title "non-combat". Therefore there is no such thing as fight or flight, you can temporarily run away from a hairy situation sure but the simple fact is if you want to make any progress you HAVE to fight at some point, you have to get back in the battle, can't just leave the area and the war behind.

If I were going out to scavenge materials I would definitely pack scanner modules and speed mods, I'm not equipped to handle a fight at that point so I gotta bail but there's nothing to do except be a part of that fight

Overall, in my personal opinion, to make shield be "closer balanced" to armor, shield extenders across the board need to 40-50% hp increase at the proto level and 100-120% increase at basic/advanced levels.

I don't mean this as an attack, but the way the math works is that if you did that, damage mods would be useless on 100% of fits. Any time a shield extender represents more than 12% of your suits total HP, it's better than a damage mod in any conceivable situation. (ED: I should add, except long-range sniping.)

Extenders really cannot be buffed without screwing more things up right now. Armor must be nerfed.

could very well be, wasn't doing pure math there; was just thinking up what may or may not be reasonable/doable . My ideal numbers were something like 50/75/100 , with skilling 55/83.5/110 . This still leaves proto at about 39 hp difference b/t extenders and plates. This could make running 3/4 complex extenders viable, instead of having to gimp yourself at the moment at 2 so you can run 2 damage mods to almost compete w/ armor tankers, yet still be down 100-200 hp.

Granted this may/will all change pending on how damage mods and proficiency skills change. At the moment even w/ the movement penalty and no innate repair that armor has, it still vastly out performs shields. Though in 1.8 I doubt anything will change in this regard until 1.9/2.0 ; and assuming a respect is given (as it is almost required), I feel the majority of players who stay in a assault suit will be going Galente b/c of the benefit of armor versus shield at this point in the game

There was a comment on reducing the efficacy of damage mods (or possibly making them only affect the weapon's affinity, possibly like the new proficiency skill). I don't have the link on me ATM, but if I come across it I'll link it here.




I think utility modules are underestimated. The fitting requirements for kincats are absurd but cardiac regs are surprisingly useful. Fitting one, I barely ever run out of stamina.
By extension, I think you're underestimating what you can do with these. Think tactically, rather than up-front. You are correct in saying that you have to fight. But do you have to fight head on? To me, this is the crux of the matter and the role definition is important. People say that shields are for 'hit and run', but I'm not sure that quite encompasses it.

High mobility, the ability to evade scans, better passive scans, and the ability to get back into the fight quicker unaided are all useful things. These things give you exactly what you need to move positions fluidly, hold range, skirmish, flank, keep at range, etc.

Conversely, armour is for high buffer and the damage to crush people in head on fights. To counteract that, though, they're slow and have little utility (with the notable exception of the logistics class, which is a problem in its own right).

You might not see these utility modules as useful in straight combat, and some of them need love (I've mentioned the high PG usage for kincats) but the tactical usage is amazing.
With shields, you can't take on armour tanking enemies head on in a single engagement. You can take them 1v1 head on if you take a moment to recharge, but straight up charging them doesn't work. That's by design, really.

However, as a shield tanker, you can fit to see people on your scanner passively while they can't see you even with an active scanner. That immediately gives you a significant advantage.

So I really do find your suggestion that the only way to fight is head on, and the only way to do things is through defense and damage. Sure, in a head on fight, perhaps they are. I have a question for you, though: Why fight head on all the time? There's a massive potential for utility modules without fighting head on. It's a fun playstyle and it can be extremely effective, especially against people who believe that damage and defence are the only way.


I don't think that you can simply switch damage mods to low slots, chuck a couple of armour modules in the high slots and call it quits. What armour modules are you suggesting? Do they augment the role's strengths, or cover its weaknesses? If it's the latter, I don't think it's a good solution because it leads to homogenisation of the roles. I love the design of shields exactly because it's focused towards doing what it does best and not covering its weaknesses. There's certainly work to be done on them - basic and enhanced shields scale terribly, and team support is lacking - but I don't think it's quite as bad as most people whining on the forums about it.

It's all about role definition. What do you want to do? Neither tank should be able to do everything, nor can they.

Does EVE have mid slots? because that would make alot of sense, if you have the choice between a passive shield range amplifier and an armor plate, armor plates get chosen every time; if we changed the amount of high and low slots the suits had and then gave them mid slots to shove scanner mods and biotics in that would make things a bit more interesting.

Also the movement penalty argument isn't that accurate, for those who don't know the speed reduction also has a stacking penalty, 5 complex plates don't reduce your speed by 25% it's more like 14%

shield mods should be made low slots, caldari n gallente slot layouts should get reversed, or kept the same and shield extenders getting massive hp boost and armor plates having a real movement penalty.

armor way too op atm, especially with the turbo scrub gun out there, damn scrambler rifle

I'm Gallente, and to be honest I shield tank more than I armour tank

So I really do find your suggestion that the only way to fight is head on, and the only way to do things is through defense and damage. Sure, in a head on fight, perhaps they are. I have a question for you, though: Why fight head on all the time? There's a massive potential for utility modules without fighting head on. It's a fun playstyle and it can be extremely effective, especially against people who believe that damage and defence are the only way.


I don't think that you can simply switch damage mods to low slots, chuck a couple of armour modules in the high slots and call it quits. What armour modules are you suggesting? Do they augment the role's strengths, or cover its weaknesses? If it's the latter, I don't think it's a good solution because it leads to homogenisation of the roles. I love the design of shields exactly because it's focused towards doing what it does best and not covering its weaknesses. There's certainly work to be done on them - basic and enhanced shields scale terribly, and team support is lacking - but I don't think it's quite as bad as most people whining on the forums about it.

It's all about role definition. What do you want to do? Neither tank should be able to do everything, nor can they.

How about for low modules that raises the effectiveness of a weapon, rather than the effectiveness of the damage.

What I'm referring to is, Counter-Resistance Modules. With Resistance coming up soon, it might be nice to have modules that will raise your weapon's efficiency by a small yet viable percent.

And if not Counter-Resistance Modules in the low slots, what about actual Resistance modules(aka Hardeners)?

The main problem that I see is that while armor mods compliment damage mods and other armor mods, shield mods work against each-other.

I think there should be 2 kinds of shield extender: 1 that doesn't penalize recharge delay, and 1 that gives more eHP, but with the current penalties.

This post sums the whole thread up nicely I feel. As a shield tanker you need to pick your fights and be smart about cover, as an armour tanker you need to have a teammate with you at all times, pick your fights and be smart about cover if you want to get back into the fight.

The disparity between hitpoints is down to your regen. Shield based suits get 20hp/s regen, my armour suit gets 6.25hp/s or maybe 12.50hp/s with two complex reps.

Yes eve uses highslots for cap warfare and a few other mods and weapons. Shields go mid with speed mods, some e warfare, among other things.
I've never used more than 3 enhanced because it slows me down so much i cant jump over a 6 inch curb on the side of the road.. Armor repairs are completely useless. And I'm pretty sure the ferroscale equivalent in eve gives hp percentage, not a small set number.

Someone else who does things like me!

Do you scout or anything?

You even armor tank bro? Kidding lol, I find armor repairers very useful, even before armor plates had their buff in 1.4 I never went without at least 10HP/second and it works great, mainly because you can get armor and shields back at a reasonable rate, armor coming back constantly while shields stop any damage from being taken.