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Nosid Katona
HavoK Core
RISE of LEGION
82
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Posted - 2014.02.23 23:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:Dust: Rock(railguns), paper(missiles), scissors(blasters)
Rock beats scissors and beats paper and can only lose to other rocks. or if the rock seriously ****s up on a massive scale.
As much as I agree Rails need balanced (poor poor dropships...) I think a more accurate and alarming analogy of balance right now is-
Rock: Tank. Paper: AV. Scissors: Infantry. Random LOL bomb: JLAV.
Rock beats scissors and paper and is only really threatened by other Rocks or Random LOL bombs, or if a bunch of Paper gang up on one Rock or if the Rock is absolutely brain dead and ****s up.
Neither is acceptable, both situations need to be fixed. As an Infantryman who called for a fix to OP AV pre 1.7 I salute any and all tankers who are calling for balance now that the situations are switched. We shouldn't consider ourselves on opposite sides when it comes to talks of balancing the circle; we shouldn't be deaf to your woes and you shouldn't ignore ours.
With all this said; as an Infantryman who's word probably has no weight on the subject whatsoever, I give my support for a balance of rail turrets. o7
Vae Victis
Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG
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Nosid Katona
HavoK Core
RISE of LEGION
90
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Posted - 2014.02.24 04:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:Nosid Katona wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:Dust: Rock(railguns), paper(missiles), scissors(blasters)
Rock beats scissors and beats paper and can only lose to other rocks. or if the rock seriously ****s up on a massive scale. As much as I agree Rails need balanced (poor poor dropships...) I think a more accurate and alarming analogy of balance right now is- Rock: Tank. Paper: AV. Scissors: Infantry. Random LOL bomb: JLAV. Rock beats scissors and paper and is only really threatened by other Rocks or Random LOL bombs, or if a bunch of Paper gang up on one Rock or if the Rock is absolutely brain dead and ****s up. Neither is acceptable, both situations need to be fixed. As an Infantryman who called for a fix to OP AV pre 1.7 I salute any and all tankers who are calling for balance now that the situations are switched. We shouldn't consider ourselves on opposite sides when it comes to talks of balancing the circle; we shouldn't be deaf to your woes and you shouldn't ignore ours. With all this said; as an Infantryman who's word probably has no weight on the subject whatsoever, I give my support for a balance of rail turrets. o7 I personally believe that single AV should be a deterrent. two, you have to be on the ball, or you're chunky salsa. 3 requires an actual skilled into tank and some small amount of luck to survive and 4 requires leaving the area and waiting for them to leave, or going and doing something else/calling whatever infantry you've got to clear them out so you can support your infantry. and this falls in line with infantry balancing, one-one, that's a fight decided by skill/whoever stacked the most OP on one suit or simply denying one side a fight after realizing the odds might not be in your favor. up to three, the AV should need to work a bit for that kill, but every one after that should make life exponentially harder for a tank, as they outstrip the maximum number of occupants you can have and therefore the amount of threats you can respond to. Swarms could use a bit of their range/damage back, as right now they either do nothing to shield tanks below proto, and any armor tanker with a half decent fit will see you run out of ammo or be far out of range well before you're even making him sweat. and forges are actually in a decent place right now. One-one its enough to make a newbie or FOTM chasing tanker flip his hardeners, while it's enough of a punch that real tankers know they are very unwanted. the main problem with tanks is that the "main gun" rail is simply too damn powerful in every situation.
While I respect your opinion I disagree personally; a fight between an AV specialist and a tanker should come down to skill just as much as two infantryman or two tankers battling one another. AV can't work as a deterrent so long as it is only avalable as a main weapon and we have low player count lobby matches; balance must be maintained between the infantry and vehicles. It really shouldn't require proto pro. V and damage mods on anything other then a forge to chase a tank off for more then a few seconds like it does now; nor should three people have to ever gang up on one person to put them down else they become a burden.
With how it stands now AV isn't helpful at all so long as a tank, railgun or otherwise, can battle multiple tanks with less effort, cost, and sacrifice then multiple AV infantryman. So long as the circle remains broken this way no one will or should ever skill AV rather then tanks; PC teams will just field one tanker rather then AV as they do now. Tanks are too efficient right now; they can kill tanks and slaughter infantry at the same time while remaining impervious to 90% of everyone else on the field; AV players don't have this luxury as any non-AV player can kill them.
I will say forges are in a good place, since even a standard forge can chase a tank off if your smart. Every other peice of AV is only good if you have no other option whatsoever, and that includes cheap non-skilled MLT tanks that honestly cost less then proto AV (Although one might include AV nades in the OK list as I know my opinion on them needed to actually threaten tanks is a bit controversial.)
Again though, agree rail turrets need balance.
Vae Victis
Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG
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Nosid Katona
HavoK Core
RISE of LEGION
92
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Posted - 2014.02.24 05:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:Nosid Katona wrote:snip
I will say forges are in a good place, since even a standard forge can chase a tank off if your smart. Every other peice of AV is only good if you have no other option whatsoever, and that includes cheap non-skilled MLT tanks that honestly cost less then proto AV (Although one might include AV nades in the OK list as I know my opinion on them needed to actually threaten tanks is a bit controversial.)
Again though, agree rail turrets need balance. Whenever I hear "Forges are in a good place" it translates to, "Nerfed good just as I like it." The Charge-to-fire has been a growing issue for more than a year now. CCP kept buffing vehicle speeds to a point where you had to use assaults to keep from getting ran over by LAVs. So when the Uprising 1.7 Nerfs came out it became pretty obvious whatever delayed the patch deployment it wasn't any careful double-checks like they claimed. did you even play in the last year, or did you just suffer some kind of massive aneurysm that scrambled your memories and left your ability to type intact? one forge kept every kind of vehicle off the field. Propaganda does not a truth make. That said the level of hyperbole in your response is just incredible. If your assertion was true then I would have been a God through the end of Chromosome and most of Uprising.
Look the forge is fine, when tanks are tweaked a little bit they will again be a major threat rather then just a threat. I can chase tanks off with my MLT forge skinweave heavy fit; anything above this should repel/kill tanks no problem.
Vae Victis
Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG
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Nosid Katona
HavoK Core
RISE of LEGION
93
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Posted - 2014.02.24 06:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:More ad hominem fallacy. Really is that the best you can do? The problem with your statement is that I'm not terrible at all.
You still haven't addressed the issue of the charge-to-fire and vehicle speed imbalance. More boasting without proof of any kind, that the best you can do? It is a railgun, railguns charge to fire in dust. If you don't want vehicles running away, get them in a city, they'll run into something and get wedged in. a perfect sitting duck so you can hit them, since it seems you can't otherwise. Please, keep pretending that AV wasn't entirely dominant for 7 months.
I think he is referring to how forge guns charge for every shot and railguns don't need too; which I believe they should.
Vae Victis
Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG
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