DUST Search - [Suggestion] Add wallet balance to Matchmaking

Zeylon Rho wrote:

Hmm... even with assets counting, it's problematic.

Would AUR items count? A person who bought 50000 standard rifles would show up as richer than a person with one STD Rifle BPO, but they're the same in practical terms. Similar story for cosmetic suits, they suggest a greater deal of "power" ISK/AUR-wise, while not actually conferring additional combat benefits. A person could have lots of unusable items, which inflate their "worth" without conferring benefits. Similiarly, a character could keep a really lean collection of suits, and be very effective.

ISK is easily transferred to an alt on a separate account. Corp assets can have the same issue, transferred to a holding account. Total corp wealth suffers comparison-wise from corp-size if you use totals, and corp and averages are easily skewed on the small end as well. For example, an elite corp of 40 people would have a much easier time getting everyone's assets/ISK managed to keep the corp proto-stomping weaker players in comparison to a monstrosity like the FW Army.

I prefer meta/tier-style gating for practical reasons (if we were to have any gating or gear-locked matches at all).

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Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 96	Posted - 2014.02.23 06:51:00 - [1] - Quote I mentioned this in another thread, but I thought I would post it here as well. Dust 514 is all about the ISKies, right? You can pad your K/D ratio all you want, but in the end if you can't play ISK positive you have difficulties (unless you have a rich corp to back you). If you have a lot of ISK you are also likely to run proto full time. Well, let's add your current wallet balance (as a factor) to matchmaking. This means players with high funds gets naturally matched together. I think this is better than some gear restriction which would be very tricky to pull off. Now before you mention "what to stop every rich player to transfer their ISK to the corp wallet to game the system", I would say "let them". Unless you are a single person corp you will put your ISK at risk, and in control of somebody else. There are probably spies right now infiltrating the top corps, just waiting to clean them dry and spit them out. This is New Eden after all
Kitt 514 True North. 123	Posted - 2014.02.23 07:40:00 - [2] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: I mentioned this in another thread, but I thought I would post it here as well. Dust 514 is all about the ISKies, right? You can pad your K/D ratio all you want, but in the end if you can't play ISK positive you have difficulties (unless you have a rich corp to back you). If you have a lot of ISK you are also likely to run proto full time. Well, let's add your current wallet balance (as a factor) to matchmaking. This means players with high funds gets naturally matched together. I think this is better than some gear restriction which would be very tricky to pull off. Now before you mention "what to stop every rich player to transfer their ISK to the corp wallet to game the system", I would say "let them". Unless you are a single person corp you will put your ISK at risk, and in control of somebody else. There are probably spies right now infiltrating the top corps, just waiting to clean them dry and spit them out. This is New Eden after all This is such a terrible idea.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1038	Posted - 2014.02.23 07:44:00 - [3] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: I mentioned this in another thread, but I thought I would post it here as well. Dust 514 is all about the ISKies, right? You can pad your K/D ratio all you want, but in the end if you can't play ISK positive you have difficulties (unless you have a rich corp to back you). If you have a lot of ISK you are also likely to run proto full time. Well, let's add your current wallet balance (as a factor) to matchmaking. This means players with high funds gets naturally matched together. I think this is better than some gear restriction which would be very tricky to pull off. Now before you mention "what to stop every rich player to transfer their ISK to the corp wallet to game the system", I would say "let them". Unless you are a single person corp you will put your ISK at risk, and in control of somebody else. There are probably spies right now infiltrating the top corps, just waiting to clean them dry and spit them out. This is New Eden after all I would just keep 99% of my wealth tied up in assets. Your system fails.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 9527	Posted - 2014.02.23 07:52:00 - [4] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: I mentioned this in another thread, but I thought I would post it here as well. Dust 514 is all about the ISKies, right? You can pad your K/D ratio all you want, but in the end if you can't play ISK positive you have difficulties (unless you have a rich corp to back you). If you have a lot of ISK you are also likely to run proto full time. Well, let's add your current wallet balance (as a factor) to matchmaking. This means players with high funds gets naturally matched together. I think this is better than some gear restriction which would be very tricky to pull off. Now before you mention "what to stop every rich player to transfer their ISK to the corp wallet to game the system", I would say "let them". Unless you are a single person corp you will put your ISK at risk, and in control of somebody else. There are probably spies right now infiltrating the top corps, just waiting to clean them dry and spit them out. This is New Eden after all I would just keep 99% of my wealth tied up in assets. Your system fails. That is a flaw, but I do like the general idea. Perhaps the ISK value of your assets in addition to wallet should be the factor, instead of just the wallet. @OP: feel free to edit your post and add the asset ISK value thing as well. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 98	Posted - 2014.02.23 08:27:00 - [5] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: I would just keep 99% of my wealth tied up in assets. Your system fails. Oops, forgot about that one... Good point Will have to think about this some more.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 9527	Posted - 2014.02.23 08:30:00 - [6] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Awry Barux wrote: I would just keep 99% of my wealth tied up in assets. Your system fails. Oops, forgot about that one... Good point Will have to think about this some more. Edit the OP and add ISK value of your assets in addition to wallet as the factor, instead of just the wallet. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Bojo The Fantastic Bojo's Grand Bazaar 49	Posted - 2014.02.23 08:46:00 - [7] - Quote As yall pointed out it is flawed because people like me, with their own personal banking alt corp, would just shift ISK via Grand Bazaar. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1309442#post1309442 This is pretty awfully worded forgive me but basically what if suits, modules, weaponry, and equipment were all assigned a security status, the lowest being officer weapons and prototype gear. Basically it would act like a filter like you propose.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 766	Posted - 2014.02.23 09:16:00 - [8] - Quote In principle I like your idea but one could easily get around this by just having the vast majority of your isk on an alt and just transfer it over if and when needed. Join our public channel - A great place to hang out / find squads. ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 9527	Posted - 2014.02.23 09:22:00 - [9] - Quote Should take into account the corp wallet of CEOs, directors, and any other corp roles with access to corp wallet. This idea can be work, and it can be great. Just tweak it accordingly, you still haven't updated the OP, do it; I don't want to have to male my own thread on the subject. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 99	Posted - 2014.02.23 09:24:00 - [10] - Quote Bojo The Fantastic wrote: As yall pointed out it is flawed because people like me, with their own personal banking alt corp, would just shift ISK via Grand Bazaar. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1309442#post1309442 This is pretty awfully worded forgive me but basically what if suits, modules, weaponry, and equipment were all assigned a security status, the lowest being officer weapons and prototype gear. Basically it would act like a filter like you propose. Well all gear in-game already have a meta level, with officer gear the highest. And matchmaking based on meta level have been discussed to no end. I wanted to find a way to measure a merc's success based on his wealth, which for me is the defining factor how "good" mercenaries we are. But as pointed out, there are many loopholes to this system, and even if you take into consideration the combined value of your gear, there are plenty ways to game the system

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 99	Posted - 2014.02.23 09:34:00 - [11] - Quote Updated the OP post. I think a combination of wallet ISK and combined value of your gear might be the way to go. Discuss
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3503	Posted - 2014.02.23 10:13:00 - [12] - Quote Hmm... even with assets counting, it's problematic. Would AUR items count? A person who bought 50000 standard rifles would show up as richer than a person with one STD Rifle BPO, but they're the same in practical terms. Similar story for cosmetic suits, they suggest a greater deal of "power" ISK/AUR-wise, while not actually conferring additional combat benefits. A person could have lots of unusable items, which inflate their "worth" without conferring benefits. Similiarly, a character could keep a really lean collection of suits, and be very effective. ISK is easily transferred to an alt on a separate account. Corp assets can have the same issue, transferred to a holding account. Total corp wealth suffers comparison-wise from corp-size if you use totals, and corp and averages are easily skewed on the small end as well. For example, an elite corp of 40 people would have a much easier time getting everyone's assets/ISK managed to keep the corp proto-stomping weaker players in comparison to a monstrosity like the FW Army. I prefer meta/tier-style gating for practical reasons (if we were to have any gating or gear-locked matches at all). Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 99	Posted - 2014.02.23 10:58:00 - [13] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Hmm... even with assets counting, it's problematic. Would AUR items count? A person who bought 50000 standard rifles would show up as richer than a person with one STD Rifle BPO, but they're the same in practical terms. Similar story for cosmetic suits, they suggest a greater deal of "power" ISK/AUR-wise, while not actually conferring additional combat benefits. A person could have lots of unusable items, which inflate their "worth" without conferring benefits. Similiarly, a character could keep a really lean collection of suits, and be very effective. ISK is easily transferred to an alt on a separate account. Corp assets can have the same issue, transferred to a holding account. Total corp wealth suffers comparison-wise from corp-size if you use totals, and corp and averages are easily skewed on the small end as well. For example, an elite corp of 40 people would have a much easier time getting everyone's assets/ISK managed to keep the corp proto-stomping weaker players in comparison to a monstrosity like the FW Army. I prefer meta/tier-style gating for practical reasons (if we were to have any gating or gear-locked matches at all). The more I think about this, the more I feel this idea should be placed on my "bad idea" pile. Thanks for all your feedback. It just shows how a simple idea might not be as simple after all
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 696	Posted - 2014.02.23 11:06:00 - [14] - Quote I would love to see servers balanced on KDR... All the Pro V MLT farmers would have to fight each other And the waves of QQ over no more 30/0 KDR would be funny At this stage I'm pretty sure CCP don't give a damn about balance They have let top players fight V academy cadets for a year now While letting the same 'top' players exploit the game Earning free ISK and SP in dodgy PC matches.... With no reprimand, so CCP seem to endorse game-breaking activity Keep that in mind with future updates Plasma Cannon will have its chance if AR/HAV 514 is ever fixed
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 974	Posted - 2014.02.23 11:12:00 - [15] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: ... Well, let's add your current wallet balance (as a factor) to matchmaking ... Why is this such a problem to comprehend for the many Mercs posting matchmaking threads? Besides the very limited roll of the academy There Is No Matchmaking In Dust514. There never has been and unless CCP/Shanghai changes their minds there will never be one. The reason doesn't matter beyond the fact that there isn't one. Maybe it is the low player count, maybe there is too much other work that is a higher priority or some other mystical reason. None of which matter to posts on the fictional matchmaker. We thought we were getting matchmaking for Uprising and what we got was the Battle Finder and the nearly useless Squad Finder. They even removed the ability to choose Ambush OMS vs Ambush. Never forget they added the very much hated Scotty. The AI that cannot. No Matchmaking, no matchmaking, no matchmaking. We could make a song about it. But ... please don't. completely useless personally. And so it goes.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 9529	Posted - 2014.02.23 18:19:00 - [16] - Quote Corp wallet is would need to be included ONLY for those with corp positions that grant them access to the corp wallet. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1188	Posted - 2014.02.23 18:27:00 - [17] - Quote If ISK is to be taken account into matchmaking, it should be based on ISK-efficiency. I had about 150 million refunded with 1.7 and I've been going slightly negative. Basing it solely off of your assets and liquid ISK will only lead to further imbalance. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 9529	Posted - 2014.02.23 18:36:00 - [18] - Quote Harpyja wrote: If ISK is to be taken account into matchmaking, it should be based on ISK-efficiency. I had about 150 million refunded with 1.7 and I've been going slightly negative. Basing it solely off of your assets and liquid ISK will only lead to further imbalance. Well the OP suggests that it would just be one of many factors, not the sole decider. A guy with a billion ISK can run proto all day everyday, and be slowly losing money; he would have very poor ISK-efficiency, but certainly should not be made to fight the majority of players. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Draco Cerberus BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 760	Posted - 2014.02.23 20:39:00 - [19] - Quote It's fine to say there is an imbalance in the games, but I think the scope of the playerbase CCP is working with should speak for why there is imbalance. At a grand total of around 7000 players on Dust at the most at once, combined with the average of 50k Eve players at once that total amount of around 57k players at any time at most (haven't seen the server Dust side even close to that busy since the first few days of launch), is far lower than COD Black Ops 2 for Xbox 360 at around 150k average players on at any given time. Think about it, 7k players vs 150k players on average with many times being much higher, which game would actually need matchmaking? Quite obviously it is not Dust. Finish, as much as it can be in a short period of time and re-launch the game. Make it worth the time investment and draw players in who otherwise are playing COD, BF4, and any of the other shooters on the market, make it competitive and show us a product we can be proud of being part of from the beginning. This game has hit so many of the branches on the FAIL tree and has almost hit the root system too, deliver on your promises CCP or remove it from the server. This game has no place in New Eden at the moment and after 2 years of my time being invested, I am started to think you guys just don't give a damn about how the product actually makes it feel like it is worth playing. Deliver a working game, something I can tell my friends isn't just a big broken mess. Open World Gaming, the better way of gaming and the solution to all "matchmaking" issues anyone may have. LogiGod earns his pips
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1199	Posted - 2014.02.23 23:48:00 - [20] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Harpyja wrote: If ISK is to be taken account into matchmaking, it should be based on ISK-efficiency. I had about 150 million refunded with 1.7 and I've been going slightly negative. Basing it solely off of your assets and liquid ISK will only lead to further imbalance. Well the OP suggests that it would just be one of many factors, not the sole decider. A guy with a billion ISK can run proto all day everyday, and be slowly losing money; he would have very poor ISK-efficiency, but certainly should not be made to fight the majority of players. The point of using ISK-efficiency is that ISK by itself does not inherently make someone good. If I were to run full proto, I'd probably die just as often as running in my standard or advanced. Just because someone can afford to run and lose proto doesn't mean they will stomp on the majority of players unless they actually have skill; but if they have skill, then their ISK efficiency won't be so poor in the first place. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32

ugg reset Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 503	Posted - 2014.02.24 04:21:00 - [21] - Quote so if I want easy lobbies I simply buy my assets in bulk, keeping my Isk pool low or I transfer ISK to an alt. Seems like more trouble than it's worth. Thr33 is the magic number.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 977	Posted - 2014.02.24 09:50:00 - [22] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: I ... At a grand total of around 7000 players on Dust at the most at once, combined with the average of 50k Eve players ... While your numbers are easily twice as high as been happening the last month, even your EVE numbers are inflated by 60% according to the web sites, there is little to suggest matchmaking is worth spending developer resources on. On that we agree, most likely although I may have interpreted your comments incorrectly. The need for matchmaking is based on many things besides magical thinking Mercs with low player counts. It is based on Pay 2 Win mechanics with AUR and LP provided equipment that is available to players without the skill or the patience to acquire them in game. There is also the very real position that Proto Stomping, or AUR Stomping, makes playing Dust514 significantly less fun. That drives many to want a matchmaking system to prevent having to play against Mercs with better gear or skills. There is no real solution. There is no matchmaking yet none will surrender their heartfelt belief that there is one. At the very least there should be one, the code should only take a week end - right? And so it goes.


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