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ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:

Pvt Numnutz wrote:

Av did this to themselves to be honest. Tower camping all the time, blowing up very expensive vehicles for pennies on the dollar from insane range. The tanks really went overboard tho. Anyway if every infantry had av, and from the sound of it you want them to be 1.6 strength then we should just remove vehicles now. There should be dedicated av, just like there are dedicated vehicle pilots (granted right now anyone can be a tanker) yes it needs to be stronger, or have more options, but not as strong as it was in 1.6. There was a justifiable argument from vehicle pilots that av was too strong. Let's not go there again.

you are missing the point i'm trying to make. you cannot be effective at av if you cannot defend yourself against anything and be weak against everything. fact is av while it is much needed when tanks are about is not needed when they are not and this leaves a huge imbalance as how can a av player afford to run with av gear just incase vehicles appear. most players are happy to just forget about tanks and hide while killing and with balance as it is that makes the av role pointless. its too expensive, fitting intensive and weak. this means that to roll with it all the time as a role is completely impractical and costly.

there needs to be a way for av to move with the battle regardless of if tanks or vehicles are about so that when they do appear players can react accordingly. its completely wrong to expect a player to take av and die stupid amounts of times when no vehicles are about so they can be ready to fulfill their role when there are. the same goes for why should players have to die before spawning in av gear.

fact is AV and assault should be working together. av players carries the av and assaults carry the ammo hives and when needed they support each other. this is the allround balance av needs in order to balance it with vehicles.


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Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 773	Posted - 2014.02.19 20:37:00 - [1] - Quote Av did this to themselves to be honest. Tower camping all the time, blowing up very expensive vehicles for pennies on the dollar from insane range. The tanks really went overboard tho. Anyway if every infantry had av, and from the sound of it you want them to be 1.6 strength then we should just remove vehicles now. There should be dedicated av, just like there are dedicated vehicle pilots (granted right now anyone can be a tanker) yes it needs to be stronger, or have more options, but not as strong as it was in 1.6. There was a justifiable argument from vehicle pilots that av was too strong. Let's not go there again.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 773	Posted - 2014.02.19 22:19:00 - [2] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Av did this to themselves to be honest. Tower camping all the time, blowing up very expensive vehicles for pennies on the dollar from insane range. The tanks really went overboard tho. Anyway if every infantry had av, and from the sound of it you want them to be 1.6 strength then we should just remove vehicles now. There should be dedicated av, just like there are dedicated vehicle pilots (granted right now anyone can be a tanker) yes it needs to be stronger, or have more options, but not as strong as it was in 1.6. There was a justifiable argument from vehicle pilots that av was too strong. Let's not go there again. you are missing the point i'm trying to make. you cannot be effective at av if you cannot defend yourself against anything and be weak against everything. fact is av while it is much needed when tanks are about is not needed when they are not and this leaves a huge imbalance as how can a av player afford to run with av gear just incase vehicles appear. most players are happy to just forget about tanks and hide while killing and with balance as it is that makes the av role pointless. its too expensive, fitting intensive and weak. this means that to roll with it all the time as a role is completely impractical and costly. there needs to be a way for av to move with the battle regardless of if tanks or vehicles are about so that when they do appear players can react accordingly. its completely wrong to expect a player to take av and die stupid amounts of times when no vehicles are about so they can be ready to fulfill their role when there are. the same goes for why should players have to die before spawning in av gear. fact is AV and assault should be working together. av players carries the av and assaults carry the ammo hives and when needed they support each other. this is the allround balance av needs in order to balance it with vehicles. No I understand your point. I just don't think its a good point. To get vehicle destroying power you make yourself vulnerable to other infantry, like a forge gunner. That's balanced because av kills vehicles, infantry kills av, vehicles kill infantry, they all have counters. If the av player is with out a squad that can support him then he probably won't be doing very well sure, if he stays back behind a heavy and assault player he's not going to be fighting the enemy with his sidearm. Infantry av has the added perk of infantry skills applying. So its a lot easier to also skill into other infantry roles. The suit you use for av can also be used for other infantry rolls. I don't understand why you say its unacceptable for an av player to be running a cheap infantry fit when there is no vehicles, then when there is run to a supply depot or if he dies switch to his primary av fit, That seems reasonable to me. When I was learning to fly in chrome I had to run on the ground to get isk for my dropships (no transport wp, no pilot gun, hardly anyone wanting to get into the death traps) and since I wanted to be a dropship pilot I had all my sp invested in my dropships. On the ground I ran my starter fit logi praying the heavy i was repping would stay alive. The same argument you make here could also be applied to the dropship pilot role, its too expensive, fitting intensive and weak but you could also add sp intensive. My point is, av doesn't have to always be running around in their av suits. They are in a good position to also use suits like other infantry. If they are needed they can switch, if they have a squad they can be protected. Vehicles are a role, and the counter to that role is the av role, why should every infantry player be able to whip out a swarm and deny the vehicle player his role? Because av suits are weak against suits designed to kill infantry? I'm sorry that's not a good enough reason for me to agree with you. Destroying vehicles is a role, it requires the av player to think about how vehicles operate to destroy them while watching out for their counter like every other role in the game they shouldn't be exempt from a counter. There is a way to field both av and infantry weapons, its called the commando suit. Its not as effective at destroying vehicles as a dedicated av suit but it can deny an area to a vehicle if the squad encounters one right then and there. Your post was very confusing because at the end you got it right, av players should be working with other infantry, they protect the infantry from vehicles and the infantry protects them from other infantry. Rock paper scissors.