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CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES Legacy Rising 693	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:25:00 - [1] - Quote Hello there you two and hello DUST community. So the other day I was pitted in battle with a few friends against CEO Pyrex, the Judge and some of their friends in tanks. It was a hard battle but that's not my point here. I was in a Madrugar with the Proto rail fitted. Both the Judge and Pyrex were in Incubus assault dropships. I managed to get 3 proto railgun shots on each of them however they both survived in very low armour and managed to escape. I was unable to spot them after this point and the battle ended. (Granted I WAS NOT using any damage mods on my tank) In summary - it seems in this instance the Armour ADS is balanced. You both withstood 3 rounds of rail and were easily able to escape. Is that not balanced? (Troll face ) Now on the other hand, when I am in my Python (Caldari shield ADS) No matter which way I fit it, even when I have tons of shields. I seem to very often get destroyed with 2 sometimes 3 shots. I think there is an imbalance between shield and armour ADS but I guess that is addressed by speed. The difference is if anything hits the python it is shook all over the place and can become very uncontrollable. I also think dropship price is way too high right now. At this point I should also note that I did watch Judge`s most recent video on range and elevation and I DO agree that maybe railguns should lose a little max range and possibly a little elevation. However I DO NOT support decreased damage for the rails. I also FULLY support adjusting the redline as I believe that causes a lot of problems, not only for dropship pilots. (On a side note - Is the Armour ADS that much better / stronger than my Python?)
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 410	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:40:00 - [2] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Hello there you two and hello DUST community. So the other day I was pitted in battle with a few friends against CEO Pyrex, the Judge and some of their friends in tanks. It was a hard battle but that's not my point here. I was in a Madrugar with the Proto rail fitted. Both the Judge and Pyrex were in Incubus assault dropships. I managed to get 3 proto railgun shots on each of them however they both survived in very low armour and managed to escape. I was unable to spot them after this point and the battle ended. (Granted I WAS NOT using any damage mods on my tank) In summary - it seems in this instance the Armour ADS is balanced. You both withstood 3 rounds of rail and were easily able to escape. Is that not balanced? (Troll face ) Now on the other hand, when I am in my Python (Caldari shield ADS) No matter which way I fit it, even when I have tons of shields. I seem to very often get destroyed with 2 sometimes 3 shots. I think there is an imbalance between shield and armour ADS but I guess that is addressed by speed. The difference is if anything hits the python it is shook all over the place and can become very uncontrollable. I also think dropship price is way too high right now. At this point I should also note that I did watch Judge`s most recent video on range and elevation and I DO agree that maybe railguns should lose a little max range and possibly a little elevation. However I DO NOT support decreased damage for the rails. I also FULLY support adjusting the redline as I believe that causes a lot of problems, not only for dropship pilots. (On a side note - Is the Armour ADS that much better / stronger than my Python?) Small and large rails are bugged, thier damage profile is bugged Also the python needs a 500 shield increase and the incubus need a 300 armor increase, as the python actiavtes hardener after first shot 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1505	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:46:00 - [3] - Quote waves 0/ With redline rails and the very high ROF and damage of rail tanks it is hard to say where ADS balance lies at the moment. Pilots of all craft have to fit as much tank as we can because of the rail tank issues. This means fewer run side guns, scanners or CRUs. The rail tank imbalance has forced other players to all fit their craft in the same way, HP, as a response to the ease at which we can die. It is rare to fight swarms or forge guns without a redline rail getting in on the action and killing us before we get a chance to see how the forge or swarm balance is. I can't fight a forge in a ship with side guns as the rail tank will kill me from the redline or just outside it before I can test any forge to build balance. It might be the case that the ADS is too strong, but we just can't tell until the rail has changes made to it to balance it against the current map size and map geography. TLDR : Rails are so imbalanced we cannot make a call on dropship balance. We may be OP we may not. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 1697	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:47:00 - [4] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: waves 0/ With redline rails and the very high ROF and damage of rail tanks it is hard to say where ADS balance lies at the moment. Pilots of all craft have to fit as much tank as we can because of the rail tank issues. This means fewer run side guns, scanners or CRUs. The rail tank imbalance has forced other players to all fit their craft in the same way, HP, as a response to the ease at which we can die. It is rare to fight swarms or forge guns without a redline rail getting in on the action and killing us before we get a chance to see how the forge or swarm balance is. I can't fight a forge in a ship with side guns as the rail tank will kill me from the redline or just outside it before I can test any forge to build balance. It might be the case that the ADS is too strong, but we just can't tell until the rail has changes made to it to balance it against the current map size and map geography. TLDR : Rails are so imbalanced we cannot make a call on dropship balance. We may be OP we may not. I don't think that answers his question :P Wasn't it 'Incubus v Python' balance? I'd also like to know this. Forge on for great justice! Defend the meek! Destroy the weak! Q-sync breaches into the rectum of everyone else!
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1505	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:52:00 - [5] - Quote that is the point. He was saying the python seems less able to survive, but it may be just as capable or more so, than any other craft given a balanced battlefield but we can't tell because of rail tanks atm. With rails breaking the game at the moment the incubus is a safer choice. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 411	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:06:00 - [6] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: waves 0/ With redline rails and the very high ROF and damage of rail tanks it is hard to say where ADS balance lies at the moment. Pilots of all craft have to fit as much tank as we can because of the rail tank issues. This means fewer run side guns, scanners or CRUs. The rail tank imbalance has forced other players to all fit their craft in the same way, HP, as a response to the ease at which we can die. It is rare to fight swarms or forge guns without a redline rail getting in on the action and killing us before we get a chance to see how the forge or swarm balance is. I can't fight a forge in a ship with side guns as the rail tank will kill me from the redline or just outside it before I can test any forge to build balance. It might be the case that the ADS is too strong, but we just can't tell until the rail has changes made to it to balance it against the current map size and map geography. TLDR : Rails are so imbalanced we cannot make a call on dropship balance. We may be OP we may not. EDIT : side note. cannot believe NK Scout (Jeremy K) but having a templar set in his sig. Way to slap the forum community in the face dude. Pythons without a hardener get 3 shotted, and icubuses get wrecked as well.... 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
ROMULUS H3X research lab 20	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:14:00 - [7] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: that is the point. He was saying the python seems less able to survive, but it may be just as capable or more so, than any other craft given a balanced battlefield but we can't tell because of rail tanks atm. With rails breaking the game at the moment the incubus is a safer choice. Being a dedicated forge gunner, I take out all dropships with almost absolute ease 2 shots mostly 3 for the Incubii... ALL dropshits need a health buff Just letting you see from a different view, not just from Rail Tankers.. With the Caldari Heavy's set to be released (4 high slots) I could only imagine the despair of the Dropship pilot
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 411	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:17:00 - [8] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: that is the point. He was saying the python seems less able to survive, but it may be just as capable or more so, than any other craft given a balanced battlefield but we can't tell because of rail tanks atm. With rails breaking the game at the moment the incubus is a safer choice. Being a dedicated forge gunner, I take out all dropships with almost absolute ease 2 shots mostly 3 for the Incubii... ALL dropshits need a health buff Just letting you see from a different view, not just from Rail Tankers.. With the Caldari Heavy's set to be released (4 high slots) I could only imagine the despair of the Dropship pilot Assault dropships will be UP, caldari heavy will be indestructible and no one will use assault dropships 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
Azura Sakura Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 593	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:37:00 - [9] - Quote NK Scout wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: that is the point. He was saying the python seems less able to survive, but it may be just as capable or more so, than any other craft given a balanced battlefield but we can't tell because of rail tanks atm. With rails breaking the game at the moment the incubus is a safer choice. Being a dedicated forge gunner, I take out all dropships with almost absolute ease 2 shots mostly 3 for the Incubii... ALL dropshits need a health buff Just letting you see from a different view, not just from Rail Tankers.. With the Caldari Heavy's set to be released (4 high slots) I could only imagine the despair of the Dropship pilot Assault dropships will be UP, caldari heavy will be indestructible and no one will use assault dropships Yeah. Sounds like fun, rail tankers are beginning to bore me and forge gunners are easy to avoid.
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 412	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:38:00 - [10] - Quote Azura Sakura wrote: NK Scout wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: that is the point. He was saying the python seems less able to survive, but it may be just as capable or more so, than any other craft given a balanced battlefield but we can't tell because of rail tanks atm. With rails breaking the game at the moment the incubus is a safer choice. Being a dedicated forge gunner, I take out all dropships with almost absolute ease 2 shots mostly 3 for the Incubii... ALL dropshits need a health buff Just letting you see from a different view, not just from Rail Tankers.. With the Caldari Heavy's set to be released (4 high slots) I could only imagine the despair of the Dropship pilot Assault dropships will be UP, caldari heavy will be indestructible and no one will use assault dropships Yeah. Sounds like fun, rail tankers are beginning to bore me and forge gunners are easy to avoid. Not when you get a bad map with a python with no AB 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race

Azura Sakura Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 593	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:41:00 - [11] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Azura Sakura wrote: NK Scout wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: that is the point. He was saying the python seems less able to survive, but it may be just as capable or more so, than any other craft given a balanced battlefield but we can't tell because of rail tanks atm. With rails breaking the game at the moment the incubus is a safer choice. Being a dedicated forge gunner, I take out all dropships with almost absolute ease 2 shots mostly 3 for the Incubii... ALL dropshits need a health buff Just letting you see from a different view, not just from Rail Tankers.. With the Caldari Heavy's set to be released (4 high slots) I could only imagine the despair of the Dropship pilot Assault dropships will be UP, caldari heavy will be indestructible and no one will use assault dropships Yeah. Sounds like fun, rail tankers are beginning to bore me and forge gunners are easy to avoid. Not when you get a bad map with a python with no AB lol, I never flew a Python so I don't know your pain. Also wish they bring back overdrives
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 412	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:42:00 - [12] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Azura Sakura wrote: NK Scout wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: that is the point. He was saying the python seems less able to survive, but it may be just as capable or more so, than any other craft given a balanced battlefield but we can't tell because of rail tanks atm. With rails breaking the game at the moment the incubus is a safer choice. Being a dedicated forge gunner, I take out all dropships with almost absolute ease 2 shots mostly 3 for the Incubii... ALL dropshits need a health buff Just letting you see from a different view, not just from Rail Tankers.. With the Caldari Heavy's set to be released (4 high slots) I could only imagine the despair of the Dropship pilot Assault dropships will be UP, caldari heavy will be indestructible and no one will use assault dropships Yeah. Sounds like fun, rail tankers are beginning to bore me and forge gunners are easy to avoid. Not when you get a bad map with a python with no AB lol, I never flew a Python so I don't know your pain. Also wish they bring back overdrives[/quote] Pythons cant use afterburners, feel slow, and get instakilled.....basically 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
Lt Royal Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2756	Posted - 2014.02.17 10:07:00 - [13] - Quote IGÇÖve played against Pyrex a couple of times in dog fighting Pyton vs Incubus action; it just end up in a pointless fight seeing how hard it is to do damage to each other. What always happens is he just ends up doing a pussies tactic and rams into me. Armor vs shields in ramming tactics; armor always wins and that sh*t is unbalanced as hell! TL;DR :: Derpship friendly/hostile collision damage needs nerfing badly! Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Subdreddit Recruitment Video Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
Azura Sakura Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 593	Posted - 2014.02.17 10:26:00 - [14] - Quote Lt Royal wrote: IGÇÖve played against Pyrex a couple of times in dog fighting Pyton vs Incubus action; it just end up in a pointless fight seeing how hard it is to do damage to each other. What always happens is he just ends up doing a pussies tactic and rams into me. Armor vs shields in ramming tactics; armor always wins and that sh*t is unbalanced as hell! TL;DR :: Derpship friendly/hostile collision damage needs nerfing badly! My friend, rail turret owns pythons unless they are dualing
Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 367	Posted - 2014.02.17 10:37:00 - [15] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: that is the point. He was saying the python seems less able to survive, but it may be just as capable or more so, than any other craft given a balanced battlefield but we can't tell because of rail tanks atm. With rails breaking the game at the moment the incubus is a safer choice. Being a dedicated forge gunner, I take out all dropships with almost absolute ease 2 shots mostly 3 for the Incubii... ALL dropshits need a health buff Just letting you see from a different view, not just from Rail Tankers.. With the Caldari Heavy's set to be released (4 high slots) I could only imagine the despair of the Dropship pilot As I said before, no health buff is needed. Dropships are fine IF you use them as a dropship. Another thing to do is increase the speed and agility of milita and standard dropships to improve survivability of them. If we buff the hp of dropships we will soon have flying tanks which the dropship never was or never should be. Stupid dust community in general, everyone wants recon dropships, bomber dropships, logistics dropships, stealth dropships , transport dropships, supersonic dropships, fighter dropships, rainbow coloured dropship... Clarification: dropships are a middle aircraft frame vehicle. THIS DOES NOT MEAN IT IS THE ONLY AERIAL HULL CCP WILL USE FOR MIDDLE CLASS AERIAL VEHICLE. The dropship just happens to be classed as a medium aircraft, with it being a transport ship. Thats it that is all the dropship will ever do or should do while laying down fire support. The assault dropship is just a light offensive vehicle designed to kill stray targets not anti-armour or anti-air. Veteran Pilot "Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart."
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES Legacy Rising 694	Posted - 2014.02.17 10:43:00 - [16] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: that is the point. He was saying the python seems less able to survive, but it may be just as capable or more so, than any other craft given a balanced battlefield but we can't tell because of rail tanks atm. With rails breaking the game at the moment the incubus is a safer choice. Humm yes this is a very good point. I will be honest, at one point I had no idea of the balance concerns with dropships. However the more I actualy use them it really does open my eyes to the nuances of dropship life. I will say one thing, when in my python swarms do shock the ship and send me off course but they dont really bother me too much in terms of killing me. I do also notice however, without a decent forger or rail gunner dropships [can] cause a tremendous amount of damage on the battlefield. In short - keep up the good work Judge. As for CCP - I hope they make a few changes in this regard in 1.8. Even if they are only small changes. Like you say big J, we can't really be sure on ADS balance outside of railtanks as its hard to tell.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES Legacy Rising 694	Posted - 2014.02.17 10:46:00 - [17] - Quote Evolution-7 wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: that is the point. He was saying the python seems less able to survive, but it may be just as capable or more so, than any other craft given a balanced battlefield but we can't tell because of rail tanks atm. With rails breaking the game at the moment the incubus is a safer choice. Being a dedicated forge gunner, I take out all dropships with almost absolute ease 2 shots mostly 3 for the Incubii... ALL dropshits need a health buff Just letting you see from a different view, not just from Rail Tankers.. With the Caldari Heavy's set to be released (4 high slots) I could only imagine the despair of the Dropship pilot As I said before, no health buff is needed. Dropships are fine IF you use them as a dropship. Another thing to do is increase the speed and agility of milita and standard dropships to improve survivability of them. If we buff the hp of dropships we will soon have flying tanks which the dropship never was or never should be. Stupid dust community in general, everyone wants recon dropships, bomber dropships, logistics dropships, stealth dropships , transport dropships, supersonic dropships, fighter dropships, rainbow coloured dropship... Clarification: dropships are a middle aircraft frame vehicle. THIS DOES NOT MEAN IT IS THE ONLY AERIAL HULL CCP WILL USE FOR MIDDLE CLASS AERIAL VEHICLE. The dropship just happens to be classed as a medium aircraft, with it being a transport ship. Thats it that is all the dropship will ever do or should do while laying down fire support. The assault dropship is just a light offensive vehicle designed to kill stray targets not anti-armour or anti-air. I did notice that. You know every so often when you get the "Battle Icons" screen while loading - I always look at the "Medium Attack Vehicle" and "Heavy Aircraft" and wonder what those two things will be! Mmm MAV and H-DS! MMMM cant wait to see what they might be. I guess as per usual, balance in this game is hard to achieve as we do not have racial equality or even all of the vehicles that CCP has planned. CCP chop chop! We await 1.8 with bated breath!
akira 1999 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 24	Posted - 2014.02.17 11:09:00 - [18] - Quote thing is... most people want the ADS to be a flying tank. I have seen in video 5 swarm launcher volleys from 3 people and the ADS just sit there and say hmm what was that.. ohhh targets to kill... well look at me and my XX and 0 KDR for the match. the ADS and the blaster tanks are nothing but KDR padding machines. might as well play EVE in a stealth bombers fleet and camp a null sec entry system, just another kill board padding mechanism. well the drop ship is only a medium and I would say a light vehicle frame. it should not survive 2 rail turret shots or 2 militia rail gun shots without any damage mods. its the 22000 years in the future version of a helicopter, lightly armored and not designed to survive like a tank. not don't get me wrong there are balance issues across the board with vehicles off all kinds, but the ADS is overpowered, and all hand held anti vehicle weapons are underpowered to truly combat it with their pitiful range and way too long charge up. and yes I have used the forge gun and swarms and I know they are not really effective for anti vehicle use as they are now. and yes I have used blaster and rail tanks so I know they can tear through infantry and vehicles with ease.
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 950	Posted - 2014.02.17 11:13:00 - [19] - Quote The Python is to be speed tanked/ high DPS, the Incubus is to be actually tanked. It's possible to make Python fits able to take 2-3 proto rails that just nearly reach armor, but where the Python really shines is it's ability to deal a lot of damage and maneuver really well. My favorite Python fit has 3k passive shield and proto AB and does wonderfully against anything on the battlefield (bar redline rails, only because I cannot kill them). Rails and the redline do need a fix. I've written volumes on the subject, but I'll just say that rails need a huge range nerf and falloff damage (350m effective, 450m max). ADS Kills: Lost count a while ago...
akira 1999 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 24	Posted - 2014.02.17 11:19:00 - [20] - Quote well the ADS should not survive 2 militia rail guns from militia tanks with zero damage mods.. shot 1 takes out all shields, shot 2 kills the ADS. its not a tank... it should not survive like a tank. a modern day real life apache or HIND helicopter can be brought down with 1 stinger shoulder fired missile ( yes 1 missile not 20 missiles like from 5 swarm shots) mind you I don't want the ADS gone from the game... some day I may even spec into one.. just want it to be a medium vehicle and not the flying tanks they currently are.

Snagman 313 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 326	Posted - 2014.02.17 11:33:00 - [21] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: waves 0/ With redline rails and the very high ROF and damage of rail tanks it is hard to say where ADS balance lies at the moment. Pilots of all craft have to fit as much tank as we can because of the rail tank issues. This means fewer run side guns, scanners or CRUs. The rail tank imbalance has forced other players to all fit their craft in the same way, HP, as a response to the ease at which we can die. It is rare to fight swarms or forge guns without a redline rail getting in on the action and killing us before we get a chance to see how the forge or swarm balance is. I can't fight a forge in a ship with side guns as the rail tank will kill me from the redline or just outside it before I can test any forge to build balance. It might be the case that the ADS is too strong, but we just can't tell until the rail has changes made to it to balance it against the current map size and map geography. TLDR : Rails are so imbalanced we cannot make a call on dropship balance. We may be OP we may not. EDIT : side note. cannot believe NK Scout (Jeremy K) but having a templar set in his sig. Way to slap the forum community in the face dude. Agreed we need to see where Railgun tanks sit after the next patch. I have fought quite a few pilots that have stood up to a veritable barrage of fire and some that seem to crash and burn easily. The FG nerf has hit beginners hard but experienced users less so, with the charge time increase being the worst aspect for me and the range reduction being somewhat irksome when RGTs have unlimited range as far as I'm concerned. But further testing is difficult with the limited number of DS's able to take to the air if RLRT's are deployed, if there is more than 2 ADS's in the air attacking/working together I have experienced severe difficulties in bringing them down even with my AV team. TLDR: We'll have to wait and see what happens in the next patch, until then just drink more it dulls the pain of the red line railers. Closed Beta AV veteran I drink because I play Dust
darkiller240 WarRavens League of Infamy 417	Posted - 2014.02.17 11:38:00 - [22] - Quote Iv always said it Python is UP compared to Incubis In fact Shield tanking in this game is useless "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2590	Posted - 2014.02.17 12:05:00 - [23] - Quote Python beats the incubus More agile and faster to move plus it takes more shots against a railgun/FG Intelligence is OP
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 273	Posted - 2014.02.17 12:39:00 - [24] - Quote akira 1999 wrote: well the ADS should not survive 2 militia rail guns from militia tanks with zero damage mods.. shot 1 takes out all shields, shot 2 kills the ADS. its not a tank... it should not survive like a tank. a modern day real life apache or HIND helicopter can be brought down with 1 stinger shoulder fired missile ( yes 1 missile not 20 missiles like from 5 swarm shots) mind you I don't want the ADS gone from the game... some day I may even spec into one.. just want it to be a medium vehicle and not the flying tanks they currently are. Yea, f*** millions of skill points, and at the very least 5x the isk (more like 8x, but whatever), those super awesome redline rail tanks should win. I mean, they are risking so much, you know, being hidden in the redline. I know, drop ships can fly to map ceilings and be immortal (can't shoot at anything up there, but as any pilot knows, you can be hit if that railgun is determined enough) so, its only balanced. While SP and isk shouldn't be balancing factors, being able to hit a DS at a height where it is 0 danger to anyone makes sense. We don't use the modern world as example for a game, otherwise you would need more than 1 person to drive a tank, and the Caldari would stop hiring such morons for FW. xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own... So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 394	Posted - 2014.02.17 13:12:00 - [25] - Quote akira 1999 wrote: well the ADS should not survive 2 militia rail guns from militia tanks with zero damage mods.. shot 1 takes out all shields, shot 2 kills the ADS. That is exactly how a Python works. What you're complaining about is Hardeners. Which, while somewhat unbalanced internally, are actually not too bad for ADSs, due to their lower HP ceiling (which is fine.) akira 1999 wrote: its not a tank... it should not survive like a tank. It....it doesn't and nobody in this thread has asked for them to. Almost every DS pilot agrees that they should be somewhat fragile, and they are, but they also shouldn't be killed in 0.000000001 seconds by something that cannot be killed because of poor mechanics (ie, the redline.) A Forge Gun or Railgun hitting a Python will remove it's shields in the first shot, unless it is prepare by running it's Hardeners. The Incubus is tougher, because it has a higher amount of HP and it's shields are a buffer, giving it more time in which to activate said Hardeners. Both kinds of ADS are good against ground forces but, unlike HAVs, the ADS actually adheres to the Waves of Opportunity ideal much more closely. akira 1999 wrote: a modern day real life apache or HIND helicopter can be brought down with 1 stinger shoulder fired missile ( yes 1 missile not 20 missiles like from 5 swarm shots) Dust/EVE is not the future. It is set in a future, but it is not a direct, linear "Earth +20,000 years" timeframe, there are a lot of twists and turns that make comparison irrelevant. Certainly, modern day anti-air can down helicopters quickly, but on the flipside modern day aerial vehicles have instrumentation: altimeters, speedometers, lock-on warnings, effective radar, substantially more weaponry. If you want ADSs to operate more like modern day helicopters, that's fine: give them a hell of a lot more firepower in compensation and to bring them more in line. As Evolution-7 has said, ADSs are a cross between a gunship and a troop transport: they gain a lot of the former while sacrificing some of the latter, but they are not the flying tanks you seem to concerned about.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 3392	Posted - 2014.02.17 13:42:00 - [26] - Quote Pythons have the "missiles of insanity" bonus. The community is the worst thing that ever happened to this game. Tank driver // specialized tank destroyer
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 3392	Posted - 2014.02.17 13:45:00 - [27] - Quote akira 1999 wrote: well the ADS should not survive 2 militia rail guns from militia tanks with zero damage mods.. shot 1 takes out all shields, shot 2 kills the ADS. its not a tank... it should not survive like a tank. a modern day real life apache or HIND helicopter can be brought down with 1 stinger shoulder fired missile ( yes 1 missile not 20 missiles like from 5 swarm shots) mind you I don't want the ADS gone from the game... some day I may even spec into one.. just want it to be a medium vehicle and not the flying tanks they currently are. And the EVE universe has 16km long spaceships. So please, get ouuuut with your "oh a helicopter irl blablabla" It takes mad skills to be effective in an ads. The community is the worst thing that ever happened to this game. Tank driver // specialized tank destroyer
akira 1999 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 30	Posted - 2014.02.17 21:41:00 - [28] - Quote again no one really reads anymore.. red line rail tanks are a problem we all know this. so are ADS that can sit in a hover and take 5 volleys from swarm launchers with no damage to the ship. that is broken and people know it as well. what I am saying is that both are not in balance and with the recent nerfs to missile range for swarms the issue is now worse. I watched judges video the whole thing.. yes drop ships need some space in the air where they can regroup, reload and start another attack run. I also watched pyrex's latest video on drop ships and saw him take 5 full volleys of swarms and survived them easily. - rail tanks need lower elevation for the gun and shorter max range - the swarm launchers need a longer lock range and a decent missile range.. id be ok with 150-200 meter lock on but a 300-400 total flight range (why you ask??.. because once a good ADS pilot sees those missile contrails they hit the climb button and just skips out of range of the missile which nullifies them as a AV weapon) - ADS should not be able to stack any kind of repair module or if they want to stack them they lose maneuverability, top speed, acceleration etc. (you want to brick tank it fine, then it handles like a brick) - and I would gladly discuss any of these and any other possible balances with anyone, just know this it will not be a one sided wins all discussion. balance for me means a ADS cant just sit there massacring my team mates with no real viable option to take them out. and when the opposing team has ADS and tanks then the match is not balanced in anyway if the other team does not field any vehicles at all. - and yes forge guns are good at taking out a ADS in the right hands and map... but seeing most maps are exposed with minimal cover trying to get 2-3 shots over the 10 seconds? it takes to charge and fire 3 shots is not going to happen because the ADS will kill the forger or some other infantry or the blaster tank around the corner. see I have been the swarm launcher and the forge gunner and the tanker with rails and blasters. I have seen people in ADS rack up 30 and 0 matches where my team was on the losing end. so yeah I have an idea of what happens on both sides of this issue. I just want it so if I hear a ADS hovering and I have a swarm launcher I can say.. ok get a couple few launches into that ship and it comes down.. not.. hmm I just emptied all my missiles and it just killed me.
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 412	Posted - 2014.02.17 21:50:00 - [29] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: akira 1999 wrote: well the ADS should not survive 2 militia rail guns from militia tanks with zero damage mods.. shot 1 takes out all shields, shot 2 kills the ADS. its not a tank... it should not survive like a tank. a modern day real life apache or HIND helicopter can be brought down with 1 stinger shoulder fired missile ( yes 1 missile not 20 missiles like from 5 swarm shots) mind you I don't want the ADS gone from the game... some day I may even spec into one.. just want it to be a medium vehicle and not the flying tanks they currently are. And the EVE universe has 16km long spaceships. So please, get ouuuut with your "oh a helicopter irl blablabla" It takes mad skills to be effective in an ads. Because **** logic! Op skills. -Luck is just one of my skills Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
akira 1999 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 30	Posted - 2014.02.17 23:03:00 - [30] - Quote Yes I know flying drop ships take skills to be effective, I have flown a bunch of the cheap militia ones. lol and all have gone boom because they do take time and practice to fly well. And yes ADS do cost a lot to fly (both in SP and ISK investment) and should not be paper pi+¦atas. And yes I know its not a general time line from present day real life earth and EVE universe, just using real life modern day equivalents to make a point on how some weapon systems are not as effective as they should/could be. - So again I am not asking for ADS to be removed (or nerfed out of use hell I want to fly one some day too). - I am not asking for red line rail tanks to be removed ( just make all long range anti tank weapons.. rails beam lasers and artillery to have a smaller firing angle and reduced max range so they can be an anti ground vehicle specialist with anti air capabilities with proper use of terrain) . - I am not asking for forge guns or swarm launchers to 1 shot any vehicle ( just want them to actually be able to fend off vehicles and with skilled users and good equipment take out vehicles). I am asking for an effective counter for any aspect of the game. That is what balance is and if I am reading and seeing what judge, evolution-7, pyrex and others have stated they also are looking for things to be along the same lines.



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