DUST Search - Yet again, tankers decided the fate of AV

True Adamance wrote:

pegasis prime wrote:

Atiim wrote:

Darken-Soul wrote:

you're starting to sound like spkr;) just spit on him like the rest of us. Taking him as an adversary is demeaning yourself.

I'm not attempting to be his "mirror" or "adversary." This is simply an experiment.

So far the results are pretty sad.

The only thing sad here is your relentless hat of vehicle combat ..

Now as you only really reflect and feel the effects of 1.7 and beyond as this is all you take into account regarding vehicle and av balance......where as folks like myself who have been playing for nearly 2 years have seen and played through many many many of ccps paches and rebalances.. this combind with what we have now is what we take into account when discussing vehicle balance .

You have way too much hate for what ccp has done and I also forcast that you will still be biching and moaning about everything you dont like in this game just as you do about vehicle av combat..

I also like to point out something I have many times before ....if you wach any advert that ccp has released regarding this game they all have a verry heavy presence of vehicle's now did you see any off these ads????

If so then why do you bich about too many tanks on the field or tanks being hard to kill or anyfucking thing you want if you have seen any of their previous adds you would realise that the battlefield now looks like the adds they released with vehicles every whare maby thus us the game play the devs want to see ???

If not why do you come to play a game that you havent even wached a few of their adds for only to come on the forums and bich about aspects of the game you dont like?

Sure experience is good, but its not good when it blinds you like spkr.

I have to defer to you when it comes to HAV piloting but impartiality, and forward thinking in regards to HAV and AV are vastly more important in this subject than experience.

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Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 4721	Posted - 2014.02.16 22:53:00 - [1] - Quote This is why vehicles and AV are always in such a state of flux, CCP. You listen to mainline tankers, without talking to the AVers. And by that, I mean a lot of us. Get dedicated AVers and infantry, not just one infantry and some tankers who happens to hate AV. Stop listening to tankers 99% of the time, with that 1% being one person. One person does make a consensus. That one person cannot speak for all AVers. Tankers, what gave you the right to decide our fate? We didn't care what you did, we didn't tell you how to fit your tanks, or when you can use certain vehicles. We told you how to evade us in an easy way, yet you all completely ignored it, and continue to bash your heads against a brick wall, then get on here and complain when you couldn't survive us. The amount of times I've seen people using Madrugars against my Swarms is staggering. It's the same with people firing their Railguns and Missiles against my AV suit. Whenever my suit was shot by Missile turrets, all I could do was laugh because a Minmatar Assault is a shielded dropsuit. You threw insane ideas at us, so now we'll throw insane ideas back Want to know how to make a strike-through? [s[Example[/s] Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 646	Posted - 2014.02.16 22:56:00 - [2] - Quote Atiim reminds me of Rich Franklin opposed to Spkr being Anderson Silva, just psychologically tortured lol. But even though his HAV buddy does talk the most insane of ****, CCP only need to do one thing, fix swarm launchers
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 394	Posted - 2014.02.16 22:57:00 - [3] - Quote balance std and adv AV and done. oh and fix nitros, and double reps/hards 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 9620	Posted - 2014.02.16 22:58:00 - [4] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: Atiim reminds me of Rich Franklin opposed to Spkr being Anderson Silva, just psychologically tortured lol. But even though his HAV buddy does talk the most insane of ****, CCP only need to do one thing, fix swarm launchers What about the poor plasma cannon? Even nova knives probably see more use than it... ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 508	Posted - 2014.02.16 22:58:00 - [5] - Quote I see what you did there.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7130	Posted - 2014.02.16 23:12:00 - [6] - Quote Atiim wrote: This is why vehicles and AV are always in such a state of flux, CCP. You listen to mainline tankers, without talking to the AVers. And by that, I mean a lot of us. Get dedicated AVers and infantry, not just one infantry and some tankers who happens to hate AV. Stop listening to tankers 99% of the time, with that 1% being one person. One person does make a consensus. That one person cannot speak for all AVers. Tankers, what gave you the right to decide our fate? We didn't care what you did, we didn't tell you how to fit your tanks, or when you can use certain vehicles. We told you how to evade us in an easy way, yet you all completely ignored it, and continue to bash your heads against a brick wall, then get on here and complain when you couldn't survive us. The amount of times I've seen people using Madrugars against my Swarms is staggering. It's the same with people firing their Railguns and Missiles against my AV suit. Whenever my suit was shot by Missile turrets, all I could do was laugh because a Minmatar Assault is a shielded dropsuit. You threw insane ideas at us, so now we'll throw insane ideas back Right you officially are added to the list of people to ignore when considering AV and HAV balance. You were pretty reasonable but dropping to Spkr's level at every chance......why do you do it Atiim. Just ease up on the hate and lets consider how best we can rectify this. I recognise my campaigning prior to 1.6 led to this alongside all other tankers....what we need to do not is not act like a prissy little ***** and get talking about how to fix AV/HAV without resorting to direct nerfs and buffs. "Just know that though our enemies may only #YOLO, through God's grace we can #YOLF at his side." - Disciple of Kesha
Nocturnal Soul Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1986	Posted - 2014.02.16 23:15:00 - [7] - Quote Did I miss a DEV post or something. "But we have been blessed"
Yoma Carrim PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 372	Posted - 2014.02.16 23:23:00 - [8] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Did I miss a DEV post or something. ^This When you turn a corner and find the entire enemy team.Oh Heck Logi, Tanker, Heavy
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1157	Posted - 2014.02.16 23:30:00 - [9] - Quote Atiim wrote: This is why vehicles and AV are always in such a state of flux, CCP. You listen to mainline tankers, without talking to the AVers. And by that, I mean a lot of us. Get dedicated AVers and infantry, not just one infantry and some tankers who happens to hate AV. Stop listening to tankers 99% of the time, with that 1% being one person. One person does make a consensus. That one person cannot speak for all AVers. Tankers, what gave you the right to decide our fate? We didn't care what you did, we didn't tell you how to fit your tanks, or when you can use certain vehicles. We told you how to evade us in an easy way, yet you all completely ignored it, and continue to bash your heads against a brick wall, then get on here and complain when you couldn't survive us. The amount of times I've seen people using Madrugars against my Swarms is staggering. It's the same with people firing their Railguns and Missiles against my AV suit. Whenever my suit was shot by Missile turrets, all I could do was laugh because a Minmatar Assault is a shielded dropsuit. You threw insane ideas at us, so now we'll throw insane ideas back I think you're mis-informed Atiim. The decent tankers never threw insane ideas at CCP. Only a few minor tweaks were needed to balance AV and vehicles so that you needed more than just one clip of proto AV to take out a decently-fit tank. Some larger changes would've been needed to bring shield tanks up to par with armor tanks, considering that Madrugars were far better than Gunnlogis. But what CCP did with 1.7 was much different than what we asked for. The only big suggestion which I've made which happened in 1.7 was with making shield boosters grant the shield HP in one burst upon activation. I don't believe I saw anyone suggesting "waves of opportunity" where vehicles become nearly invincible. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 728	Posted - 2014.02.16 23:38:00 - [10] - Quote Atiim wrote: This is why vehicles and AV are always in such a state of flux, CCP. You listen to mainline tankers, without talking to the AVers. And by that, I mean a lot of us. Get dedicated AVers and infantry, not just one infantry and some tankers who happens to hate AV. Stop listening to tankers 99% of the time, with that 1% being one person. One person does make a consensus. That one person cannot speak for all AVers. Tankers, what gave you the right to decide our fate? We didn't care what you did, we didn't tell you how to fit your tanks, or when you can use certain vehicles. We told you how to evade us in an easy way, yet you all completely ignored it, and continue to bash your heads against a brick wall, then get on here and complain when you couldn't survive us. The amount of times I've seen people using Madrugars against my Swarms is staggering. It's the same with people firing their Railguns and Missiles against my AV suit. Whenever my suit was shot by Missile turrets, all I could do was laugh because a Minmatar Assault is a shielded dropsuit. You threw insane ideas at us, so now we'll throw insane ideas back you're starting to sound like spkr;) just spit on him like the rest of us. Taking him as an adversary is demeaning yourself. Who wants some?

Awry Barux New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 707	Posted - 2014.02.16 23:42:00 - [11] - Quote Guys he's just trolling Spkr by mirroring Spkr's post, with the words "Tank" and "AV" switched at every opportunity. It's not serious.
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4170	Posted - 2014.02.16 23:45:00 - [12] - Quote Lol I love you! +1 GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 4 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4734	Posted - 2014.02.16 23:50:00 - [13] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Guys he's just trolling Spkr by mirroring Spkr's post, with the words "Tank" and "AV" switched at every opportunity. It's not serious. but it is funny ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 4736	Posted - 2014.02.16 23:55:00 - [14] - Quote Darken-Soul wrote: you're starting to sound like spkr;) just spit on him like the rest of us. Taking him as an adversary is demeaning yourself. I'm not attempting to be his "mirror" or "adversary." This is simply an experiment. So far the results are pretty sad. My .02 ISK on V/AV
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 2564	Posted - 2014.02.16 23:57:00 - [15] - Quote Atiim4theNerfed I GÖú Kittens.
Seigfried Warheit Caught Me With My Pants Down 201	Posted - 2014.02.16 23:59:00 - [16] - Quote AV vs Vehicles is always gonna be in a unbalanced state.... basic vehicles vs basic/adv/proto AV...I dont know how that would be able to be balanced....except for Caldari..they have a adv version of the Saga I guess?
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3127	Posted - 2014.02.17 00:26:00 - [17] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: I see what you did there. I'm glad someone did. No.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1271	Posted - 2014.02.17 00:38:00 - [18] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: This is why vehicles and AV are always in such a state of flux, CCP. You listen to mainline tankers, without talking to the AVers. And by that, I mean a lot of us. Get dedicated AVers and infantry, not just one infantry and some tankers who happens to hate AV. Stop listening to tankers 99% of the time, with that 1% being one person. One person does make a consensus. That one person cannot speak for all AVers. Tankers, what gave you the right to decide our fate? We didn't care what you did, we didn't tell you how to fit your tanks, or when you can use certain vehicles. We told you how to evade us in an easy way, yet you all completely ignored it, and continue to bash your heads against a brick wall, then get on here and complain when you couldn't survive us. The amount of times I've seen people using Madrugars against my Swarms is staggering. It's the same with people firing their Railguns and Missiles against my AV suit. Whenever my suit was shot by Missile turrets, all I could do was laugh because a Minmatar Assault is a shielded dropsuit. You threw insane ideas at us, so now we'll throw insane ideas back Right you officially are added to the list of people to ignore when considering AV and HAV balance. You were pretty reasonable but dropping to Spkr's level at every chance......why do you do it Atiim. Just ease up on the hate and lets consider how best we can rectify this. I recognise my campaigning prior to 1.6 led to this alongside all other tankers....what we need to do not is not act like a prissy little ***** and get talking about how to fix AV/HAV without resorting to direct nerfs and buffs. why are tanks so FAST? tanks need to be SLOWER. not that it matters once June is here. whats in June ? many good Playstation FOUR games . Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 602	Posted - 2014.02.17 00:40:00 - [19] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Guys he's just trolling Spkr by mirroring Spkr's post, with the words "Tank" and "AV" switched at every opportunity. It's not serious. but it is funny Not really, it's like watching people on both sides of an argument see who can shove their own head up their ass furthest. When they first shove their heads up their asses it's quite interesting because of how they're dumping themselves in, but after a while, it just becomes pointless grunting and quivering because there is no more space inside their ass for of which to enter... so they just pretend to be forcing their heads up their own rears for a while. I've seen at least 40 of these sets of threads where one person tries to replace all the words the other person wrote, thinking they're being adorable or something. What would be interesting, is if someone actually tried to make a post that was fair for both sides of the argument instead of going all-out bawling and ranting when they have 0.01% less cookie than the other side. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Delanus Turgias Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 242	Posted - 2014.02.17 00:45:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: you're starting to sound like spkr;) just spit on him like the rest of us. Taking him as an adversary is demeaning yourself. I'm not attempting to be his "mirror" or "adversary." This is simply an experiment. So far the results are pretty sad. People are morons, who'd have thunk it? Closed Beta Vet since May, 2012 TEST Alliance Best Alliance Proud owner of essentially every BPO in Dust

steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2322	Posted - 2014.02.17 00:46:00 - [21] - Quote i spent the whole day in tank today and iv concluded AV really really needs a buff, if you die to AV your bad dust end off. Forges need just a little more kick, and swarms need a nice damage boost at the moment its too easy to igonre it "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 602	Posted - 2014.02.17 01:20:00 - [22] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: i spent the whole day in tank today and iv concluded AV really really needs a buff, if you die to AV your bad dust end off. Forges need just a little more kick, and swarms need a nice damage boost at the moment its too easy to igonre it Swarms don't need damage, they need about 50 more meters of range for lock-on. Such a thing seems small, but the engagement area would improve for infantry, and increasing the damage blindly could just start another blinding seesaw. We are actually rather close with balance as it is, if the webifiers were to be implemented now it would suddenly turn the tables on tanking due to the loss of speed. If webifiers + damage were implemented, the tanks would need another buff, and you know where that would head. Although webifiers would be absurd where the inertia of a target cannot be entirely dictated by thrust, and would make more sense if they changed it to some kind of combat glue...possibly one that could be ignited for uses outside of AV. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 4768	Posted - 2014.02.17 15:38:00 - [23] - Quote Delanus Turgias wrote: Atiim wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: you're starting to sound like spkr;) just spit on him like the rest of us. Taking him as an adversary is demeaning yourself. I'm not attempting to be his "mirror" or "adversary." This is simply an experiment. So far the results are pretty sad. People are morons, who'd have thunk it? Sadly, yes. However the final results were pretty well. Place a balance thread and a troll thread next to each-other, and see where the community goes. The community went to the balance thread, so there are some signs of intelligence here. The signs are faint; but they are still there. My .02 ISK on V/AV
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 3408	Posted - 2014.02.17 15:49:00 - [24] - Quote Atiim wrote: This is why vehicles and AV are always in such a state of flux, CCP. You listen to mainline tankers, without talking to the AVers. And by that, I mean a lot of us. Get dedicated AVers and infantry, not just one infantry and some tankers who happens to hate AV. Stop listening to tankers 99% of the time, with that 1% being one person. One person does make a consensus. That one person cannot speak for all AVers. Tankers, what gave you the right to decide our fate? We didn't care what you did, we didn't tell you how to fit your tanks, or when you can use certain vehicles. We told you how to evade us in an easy way, yet you all completely ignored it, and continue to bash your heads against a brick wall, then get on here and complain when you couldn't survive us. The amount of times I've seen people using Madrugars against my Swarms is staggering. It's the same with people firing their Railguns and Missiles against my AV suit. Whenever my suit was shot by Missile turrets, all I could do was laugh because a Minmatar Assault is a shielded dropsuit. You threw insane ideas at us, so now we'll throw insane ideas back The amount of times I've seen people using swarms versus my gunnlogi is staggering The community is the worst thing that ever happened to this game. Tank driver // specialized tank destroyer
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 651	Posted - 2014.02.17 19:23:00 - [25] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Obodiah Garro wrote: Atiim reminds me of Rich Franklin opposed to Spkr being Anderson Silva, just psychologically tortured lol. But even though his HAV buddy does talk the most insane of ****, CCP only need to do one thing, fix swarm launchers What about the poor plasma cannon? Even nova knives probably see more use than it... Plasma Cannon? This is actually in the game? They need to just retcon that weapon all together and make it the large gallente HAV turret, Blasters are OP and they do need a massive frontline attack.
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1718	Posted - 2014.02.17 19:33:00 - [26] - Quote Shame, you really are a idiot. anyways, I wonder what happened to your twin 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever! Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate 680	Posted - 2014.02.17 19:53:00 - [27] - Quote blasters actually received quite a big nerf from 1.7 saying there op is a little stupid to do from what ive seen. as from my time in game i have killed alot with the blaster turret. but very very VERY FEW of them were moving when it happened. because it will take up to 20 rounds or more to kill a moving target. my primary reason on not wanting it changed is that its basically one of the very few things at the mlt blueberries disposal that can help prevent a completely onesided stomp match. plus theres some pretty effective ways to counter them. now on the subject of av. vehicles are still soloable with av. but it requires a little more tactical thinking. as well as having a fit. of at least adv swarms with std av nades or fluxes depending on the type of vehicle u are going up against. from 1.6 im pretty sure nearly every1 had at least adv swarms or av nades on a fit. seeing as to how tanks were slaughtered in 1.6. now there were strong and paper thin tanks in 1.6. 1.7 kinda balanced em out by throwing them into the middle area which made the tank vs tank part balanced for once between the 2 tier levels. the av nerf was needed at the time. and some tweaking needs to continue but i think both sides are in a pretty decent spot for now. now back to av. ive done some math on hand and noticed that a single individual type of av on its own. doesnt have the actual firepower to destroy a tank. maybe ward it off. but not kill. but combine 2 of any type of av and ull have enough firepower to solo if u have the skill. such as adv swarms and av nades on a mlt starterfit. to be efficient at av in general requires some tactical positioning of yourself and any fellow avers with u. which im fine with. ive been in some matches that had some tank spam. but ive managed to counter with glass cannons. as its my most effective way currently when dealing with multiple tanks when on my own.with the bonus of motivating your own team to win.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1563	Posted - 2014.02.17 20:30:00 - [28] - Quote Atiim wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: you're starting to sound like spkr;) just spit on him like the rest of us. Taking him as an adversary is demeaning yourself. I'm not attempting to be his "mirror" or "adversary." This is simply an experiment. So far the results are pretty sad. The only thing sad here is your relentless hat of vehicle combat .. Now as you only really reflect and feel the effects of 1.7 and beyond as this is all you take into account regarding vehicle and av balance......where as folks like myself who have been playing for nearly 2 years have seen and played through many many many of ccps paches and rebalances.. this combind with what we have now is what we take into account when discussing vehicle balance . You have way too much hate for what ccp has done and I also forcast that you will still be biching and moaning about everything you dont like in this game just as you do about vehicle av combat.. I also like to point out something I have many times before ....if you wach any advert that ccp has released regarding this game they all have a verry heavy presence of vehicle's now did you see any off these ads???? If so then why do you bich about too many tanks on the field or tanks being hard to kill or anyfucking thing you want if you have seen any of their previous adds you would realise that the battlefield now looks like the adds they released with vehicles every whare maby thus us the game play the devs want to see ??? If not why do you come to play a game that you havent even wached a few of their adds for only to come on the forums and bich about aspects of the game you dont like? Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7188	Posted - 2014.02.17 20:33:00 - [29] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Atiim wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: you're starting to sound like spkr;) just spit on him like the rest of us. Taking him as an adversary is demeaning yourself. I'm not attempting to be his "mirror" or "adversary." This is simply an experiment. So far the results are pretty sad. The only thing sad here is your relentless hat of vehicle combat .. Now as you only really reflect and feel the effects of 1.7 and beyond as this is all you take into account regarding vehicle and av balance......where as folks like myself who have been playing for nearly 2 years have seen and played through many many many of ccps paches and rebalances.. this combind with what we have now is what we take into account when discussing vehicle balance . You have way too much hate for what ccp has done and I also forcast that you will still be biching and moaning about everything you dont like in this game just as you do about vehicle av combat.. I also like to point out something I have many times before ....if you wach any advert that ccp has released regarding this game they all have a verry heavy presence of vehicle's now did you see any off these ads???? If so then why do you bich about too many tanks on the field or tanks being hard to kill or anyfucking thing you want if you have seen any of their previous adds you would realise that the battlefield now looks like the adds they released with vehicles every whare maby thus us the game play the devs want to see ??? If not why do you come to play a game that you havent even wached a few of their adds for only to come on the forums and bich about aspects of the game you dont like? Sure experience is good, but its not good when it blinds you like spkr. I have to defer to you when it comes to HAV piloting but impartiality, and forward thinking in regards to HAV and AV are vastly more important in this subject than experience. "Just know that though our enemies may only #YOLO, through God's grace we can #YOLF at his side." - Disciple of Kesha
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1564	Posted - 2014.02.17 20:44:00 - [30] - Quote True Adamance wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Atiim wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: you're starting to sound like spkr;) just spit on him like the rest of us. Taking him as an adversary is demeaning yourself. I'm not attempting to be his "mirror" or "adversary." This is simply an experiment. So far the results are pretty sad. The only thing sad here is your relentless hat of vehicle combat .. Now as you only really reflect and feel the effects of 1.7 and beyond as this is all you take into account regarding vehicle and av balance......where as folks like myself who have been playing for nearly 2 years have seen and played through many many many of ccps paches and rebalances.. this combind with what we have now is what we take into account when discussing vehicle balance . You have way too much hate for what ccp has done and I also forcast that you will still be biching and moaning about everything you dont like in this game just as you do about vehicle av combat.. I also like to point out something I have many times before ....if you wach any advert that ccp has released regarding this game they all have a verry heavy presence of vehicle's now did you see any off these ads???? If so then why do you bich about too many tanks on the field or tanks being hard to kill or anyfucking thing you want if you have seen any of their previous adds you would realise that the battlefield now looks like the adds they released with vehicles every whare maby thus us the game play the devs want to see ??? If not why do you come to play a game that you havent even wached a few of their adds for only to come on the forums and bich about aspects of the game you dont like? Sure experience is good, but its not good when it blinds you like spkr. I have to defer to you when it comes to HAV piloting but impartiality, and forward thinking in regards to HAV and AV are vastly more important in this subject than experience. I am not only a hav pilot good sir as I have also been an avid forge gunner since welll I started playing this game. If you look back at some of my earlyest posts I do promote the ability to solo vehicles with my proto vk0 forge set up as I had the same ammout of isk at state as the pilot . Now I often get told isk shouldent matter when balance is concerned but since it is such a big factor it should. Sorry way off topic. I gues im saying I have seen the cycle from indestructable tanks to instapopcoffins back to almost indestructable tanks it never ends . I love my forge but yes I also love my gunlogi and my rail rifle and all things caldari I do see both sides but after 1.6 I got bitter . Verry bitter... Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior



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