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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2200
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Posted - 2014.02.16 11:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
In the last few days I have killed multiple Madrugars and the odd Gunlogi with my REs and fluxes/AV nades - this means that these things are well balanced to each other but is not to say that tanks vs swarms/plasma cannon are balanced.
I never feel that aggrieved when I see a skilled into tank doing well in battle. You rarely see multiple maddies/gunnies on the field - usually it's just one or two with about half a dozen sicas or somas and herein lies the real problem. MLT tanks are cheap and powerful and difficult to kill using AV weapons, almost as much so as standard tanks.
If MLT tanks only had 2 out of these three qualities, it would be fine:
1) Cheap and powerful but fairly easy to kill - IMHO this is what MLT tanks should be
2) Cheap and difficult to kill but not very powerful killing machines - this would be similar to the old logi LAVs
3) Difficult to kill and powerful but expensive - this is what standard tanks are
Now before the tanking brigade goes all trolly on me for this thread, please note that I have nothing against tanks in general and would not be against keeping standard tanks as they are for the time being, so we could see how the balance would change when MLTs are less effective.
If we were to go ahead with my preference of reducing MLT tank effectiveness, perhaps one option would be to take away one slot and reduce their CPU/PG accordingly. It may also then be additionally appropriate to lower their eHP too but I think it would be best to go bit by bit and see what the effects are before going the whole hog.
Edit - also, my ability to kill standard tanks with my REs does not mean they are OP - I am very good at doing this, getting into the right positions and waiting for the right timing, often when someone else has taken a few pot shots at it with a forge/tank to do half the work for me.
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2201
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Posted - 2014.02.16 11:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:No, Maddies and Gunnlogis are already Godmode, and would be even more Godmode if the one threat to them, the MLT rail tank, were nerfed. Buffing AV is the way to go.
My proposal would not stop MLT rail tanks killing STD tanks but they'd have to be smarter about it than just going in gung ho head to head with a blaster/missile tank at close range.
That said, a speed/acceleration nerf to all HAVs wouldn't go amiss.
Also, I never said don't buff AV.
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2201
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Posted - 2014.02.16 12:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Django Quik wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:No, Maddies and Gunnlogis are already Godmode, and would be even more Godmode if the one threat to them, the MLT rail tank, were nerfed. Buffing AV is the way to go. My proposal would not stop MLT rail tanks killing STD tanks but they'd have to be smarter about it than just going in gung ho head to head with a blaster/missile tank at close range. That said, a speed/acceleration nerf to all HAVs wouldn't go amiss. Also, I never said don't buff AV. An MLT rail should be able to beat a blaster/missile tank 'head to head'. They've severely compromised their anti-infantry capacity in order to carry a specifically AV weapon. Maddy/gunnlogi users can always use rails themselves and be dominant in tank versus tank. As far as I can see, buffing AV deals with the problem regarding tank versus infantry, without upsetting the MLT versus standard tank balance, which is actually okay now - as in, the standard tank will win when they have the same fit, but is not so dominant that it can fit an anti-infantry weapon (blaster) and still expect to beat an anti-tank (rail) MLT tank.
A rail tank should never beat a blaster/missile tank in close range unless it gets the jump on it - the whole point of rail tanks is ranged power. MLT rail tanks should be keeping out of blaster range.
That said, blasters do seem to be generally OP now for MLT or STD HAVs. Maybe smaller clips, longer reload times and or lower ROF could fix that but I'm nonetheless of the opinion that MLT tanks need to be more fragile.
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2201
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Posted - 2014.02.16 14:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Stinker Butt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
So mlt tanks are no more, but the tank problem still persits, so CCP say ok lets raise the price to 10mil per tank, will they still be OP? And why?
Nobody would use them, so I guess it would be a mute point. They certainly wouldn't be spammed. The only tanker left would probably be the red-line rail tank. Or? How about Nyan San or the tryhards? If it costs 10mil per tank, who is gonna stump up the money to fight it?
Yeah, the PC whoring brigade would still run them and we've all seen how balancing by isk is really quite pointless all in all.
However, the payouts for killing one would be amazing and if they were as strong as they are now, that would still happen. In most matches you'd only see one or maybe two, so they'd be easier to take on than the untouchable convoys all watching each other's back that we have at the moment.
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2205
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Posted - 2014.02.16 16:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Takahiro - think you're being a little overly dramatic there. Of course there is a small but vocal subset of infantry who would love for all tanks to be made of cardboard and cost 10million isk but the sensible players out there understand that vehicles have an important place in this game. I totally agree with you that those calling for module changes are especially out of line and having any kind of restrictions on what you can fit (outside of the normal CPU/PG limitations) runs counter to the creativity that is supposed to run throughout Dust514.
Small adjustments are necessary but nothing is intrinsically wrong, apart from swarms and plasma cannon being pretty worthless as AV and even that would be fixed if MLT tanks (and actually all MLT vehicles) were made to be more fragile. Removing one slot from MLT HAVs would go a good ways to achieving this without making them useless. You could still easily fit a rail soma to take on blaster gunnies from a distance but you'd have to be much more sensible about your tactics because you would be vulnerable. Keeping all other stats the same (apart from reduced CPU/PG to go along with the lost slot) would mean that they would still be decent enough vehicles for newbies to use and may actually encourage more to skill into the STD tanks.
And like I said, I don't really see that much wrong with STD tanks atm - when they don't have convoys of MLT protecting them too, I think it will be a much more balanced area of the game.
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