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Altina McAlterson
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Posted - 2014.02.15 20:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Remove vehicles from ambush.
It's hard enough trying to balance the game as it stands now because pub matches are where most players (obviously especially new players) will spend their time. Unfortunately what's good for pubs might be bad at higher levels. So just get rid of vehicles in ambush matches before making anymore sweeping changes to either vehicles or AV (except for those outlined below). Skirm/Dom/PC will give a more complete perspective for balancing. Ambush is completely unique and very few parallels exist between it and the other match types. CCP will never be able to balance vehicles for both ambush pub matches and Skirm/Dom/PC. If they balance it for one it will probably unbalance the other. Since PC is skirmish that should be match style that requires good balance. Ambush is irrelevant. Also without a point to defend tanks and dropships have no real purpose in ambush. Even LAV's aren't necessary since the maps are small and no need to travel that quickly to any location. I'm serious CCP, do this or else you be trying to balance vehicles forever and you will **** the entire playerbase off in the process.
Reinstate Tiered Efficacy for all Modules
Pretty self explanatory actually. Militia tanks and modules with 0 SP should not be as effective as standard tanks and skill. There are no skills to increase armor, shields, passive resistances, damage or anything else to separate militia from complex. Simply having a longer cooldown is idiotic. By having militia modules give less of a bonus than those requiring SP you will make spamming militia tanks much less effective than it currently is without affecting those players that put millions of SP in to vehicles. Care should be taken with dropships however. Perhaps having different modules for aerial vehicles. The same skills, just different modules with different stats.
Increase the price for vehicles
Nothing too excessive here as I believe the first two will solve most of the issues. But a reasonable increase in price is warrented. The issue so far is that CCP is trying to balance everything for everyone. Which is probably impossible. Everything has a place in the game and attention should be focused on that area when making changes for the sake of balancing. If there requires the removal of certain elements from particular parts of the game for the sake of improving the overall experience for everyone then so be it.
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Altina McAlterson
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Posted - 2014.02.15 20:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Objectivity isn't real. Your ideas aren't bad- I'm increasingly coming to agree that it may be genuinely impossible to balance tanks for ambush and skirmish simultaneously. The lore is easy- Ambush = no MCC = no RDV control AI = no vehicles.
"Objectivity isn't real"? Are you saying pure objectivity isn't real because every decision we make and our very thought processes are based on our own personal experience and bias, even on a subconscious level? If so then stop being an ass.
My solutions are neither for infantry or vehicles in particular but in the interest of the overall game experience for all players and playstyles. I'm going to call that objective because it's close enough for me.
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Altina McAlterson
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Posted - 2014.02.15 21:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:
Funny how these 'objective' ideas would have the net effect of making a high SP tank even more OP than they are already, by nerfing the only significant battlefield threat.
Yes, I want the game to be fun for everybody that plays it.
R F Gyro wrote:There should be no reason to remove tanks from Ambush if there was an effective counter that didn't render everyone not using tanks useless.
But there isn't. So they should be removed. Ambush and skirm/dom are wildly different types of matches so the difficulty of making something balanced across both is perhaps something that CCP should stop wasting time on and apply those resources to improving other aspects of the game. If only one type of match will have vehicles balanced for it that should be skirm/dom.
Quote:
Balancing on ISK is just not going to work. For a start, we're all getting richer, and eventually we'll all be able to afford everything. CCP know this - witness titan blobs in Eve.
Secondly, it makes it impossible for new players to break into this playstyle. While learning they will lose a lot of tanks; the price needed to avoid tank spam will make it prohibitive for them. Meanwhile, established tankers rarely lose their tanks and so the price effectively becomes irrelevant.
I didn't mean increasing the price to stop tank spam. I just feel it is a little low at the moment. That's why I said "reasonable increase". It really wasn't bad before the price reduction. The problem there was AV was far too effective against vehicles to make them not viable at that higher price, especially militia. Since the balance has swung towards the tanks side the price can go back up a little bit. Maybe not as high as it was, but higher than it is now.
Quote:
The key limiting factor in Dust battles is the 16 player per side limit. Everything else - ISK, SP, player skill - is uncapped. Therefore, any attempt to balance the any element of the game has to start with 1 player being roughly equal to 1 other player. Right now, one player in a HAV is worth more than one player not in a HAV, and that is simply unsustainable, regardless of the price.
Do you mean to say one AV player should be able to solo any tank? If not then I'm misunderstanding what you meant. But if that is what you meant then that's a horrible idea. In theory it might seem fair but in practice it would be a disaster. We pretty much had that before these recent changes and vehicles were almost completely useless. The ideal situation is one tank to counter another tank, but multiple AV to counter a tank. Maybe around 2 AV players at the proto level. Anymore than that though would start to be an issue I think.
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Grey 17 should have stayed missing.
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Altina McAlterson
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Posted - 2014.02.15 21:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alternate Insano wrote:DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT USE TANKS BECAUSE I SUCK AT IT
That said, tanks are as -balanced- as anything can be. Stop looking for an easy button. This is not the game you were looking for. There are other titles with no vehicle you might like.
Ok.
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:
Yeah that's what I was thinking, if CCP implemented these ideas without buffing AV, (Assuming you want the modules to scale up and not down. Which please explain which, because making higher modules better than they already are will make even 2 mil sp tankers unstoppable.)
I'm still a fan of keeping tanks as they are except nerfing large turrets' efficiency at killing infantry by:
Buffing damage on blaster turrets while decreasing it's accuracy. Rails are fine. Reducing the blast radius on large missles to be in line with other missle devices basically making them dumbfire swarms. That way, it's a team effort for a tank to be well rounded while also taking teamwork for av to kill, because the tank will need small turret operators to take out infantry.
Militia mods would be less effective than they are currently. Complex mods are probably fine where they are now. This would add new restrictions on fits that might not be ideal so it's possible even the complex mods could need tweaking but that would be a problem that could be addressed later. Although with the overall reduction in vehicle skills it has become much easier to get proto everything so most likely they will be fine where they are.
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Altina McAlterson
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
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Posted - 2014.02.16 00:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:2 was already in place before the changes, after the changes we lost quite a few skills too like shield/armor hp/pg/cpu skills and a few mods too
If you removed vehicles from lolambush infantry would still be unhappy with vehicles in the other modes and would ask for them to be removed/limited which limits me because i main as a pilot so if only 3 vehicles are allowed in and i cant spawn quick enough and 3 noobs get in 3 ****** vehicles it means i have to wiat till they die
Would infantry like a limit on roles in matches? only 2 assault/2 logi/2 heavys and 5 scouts/commandos?
Of course they'd whine to have them removed from skirm/dom as well but so what? People are going to whine no matter what. Unfortunately right now it is justified. Once it gets where it needs to be you can just let them whine because no one will care.
CCP has proven time and time again they are unable to balance vehicles and AV so something has to change. I still believe removing vehicles from either ambush or skirm/dom and then balancing them is the only way. And I'm going to pick no vehicles in ambush unless someone can give me a good reason not to.
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Grey 17 should have stayed missing.
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