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Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
1404
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Posted - 2014.02.15 19:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm sure I'm not the first one to have pointed this out nor are the suggestions I'm going to make going to be novel. To the point:
Right now I'm sure everyone has noticed the glaring problems with tank spam and the sheer difficulty in killing tanks with anything other than another tank. AV has been nerfed to compensate for... something, while tanks have been redesigned to allow them to have these supposed "windows of opportunity" wherein they can effectively be god mode only for a limited time. That's all well and good, but there's a glaring flaw with this in the current implementation of the game.
I'm strictly speaking in terms of infantry solutions to tanks here, as they should certainly be viable but right now they're a little underwhelming. CCP nerfed AV as it was seemingly too powerful prior to 1.7 (which I agree with). Now it seems the tables have turned. The big flaw with these periods of vulnerability is that there's really no feasible way for infantry to really take advantage of them. By and large arguably the most effective AV weapon right now is the Forge Gun. It still is powerful. It's still very, very effective, but the issue comes into play. The weapon still does considerable damage, but the compounded charge time and damage nerf has made them not powerful enough to destroy a tank in time before they simply drive away. That's the big issue here.
During a tanks downtime all they have to do to survive is just drive away. And there's literally nothing you can do as infantry to stop them from doing so. As an AVer, how are you going to find a way to capitalize on their hardeners being down to take that tank down? You really can't. You just kinda have to have to deal with it. They're going to drive away, wait for their cooldowns, come back, rinse and repeat.
The solution isn't to buff AV damage or nerf tanks, otherwise we'll just end up in this perpetual cycle of "nerf AV!" "Nerf tanks!", etc. We need novel solutions to killing tanks. Jihad Jeeps were one answer but are hardly a real one. What we really need is Webifiers or some similar tool to temporarily immobilize and/or disable a tank for a few seconds. Those few seconds would be crucial to kill a tank while not necessarily being over the top. You would still need to coordinate AV to do damage during the period of immobility for it to work. Teamwork would still be a necessity to taking down tanks, as is common tanker ideology (e.g. "It should take more than one person to kill a tank"  )
Anyways, that's what I've noticed. It seems the vehicle overhaul took a step in the right direction without giving the opposite side a foundation to counter with. This game seems to have a lot of those. Scanners? Super OP easy to fit infantry tool but no active counter is just another example.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
1404
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Posted - 2014.02.15 19:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Does this mean you've actually been playing? :o
Agreed on all points though, there should be a way to take advantage of a Tank's hardeners being down (although I'm just repeating what you've already said).
Yeah I started playing again and died a little inside when I found out I could still go 50-0 Forge Sniping infantry and dropships but had to struggle an entire match to get a kill on one of five or six tanks on the field.
I pleaded with CCP to nerf splash damage on the Forge and they instead nerf the only things that made the FG AV-capable while keeping in tact the devastating anti-infantry aspect. Now tanks are so rampant that I can't even help my team using a maxed out FG with two damage mods.
Don't get me wrong, I still kill tanks. It's just irrational how difficult a militia tank is to kill with a Proto Prof. V + 2x Damage Mod AV weapon, especially when you realize there's 5 more on the field terrorizing your team.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
1405
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Posted - 2014.02.15 19:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:The tools AV'ers have available to them are extremely limited, and I think that's where the OP tank argument stems from. You can only shoot the tank, you can't:
Slow a tank
Damage modules
Cripple a weapon
Deny information (directly)
I think that once we are able to influence tank behavior outside of straight-up trying to destroy a tank designed to not die, vehicles in their current iteration would be fine.
That's essentially the TL;DR of this thread.
Thing is, how soon are we going to be able to do such things? It's much easier for CCP to just change some numbers around (HP, damage, cooldown duration) than it is to implement new modules and equipment, which is what I unfortunately suspect they're going to do which will just continue this cycle of begging for buffs/nerfs.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
1410
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Posted - 2014.02.15 20:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
D3LTA Blitzkrieg II wrote:AV was never too strong. Just never did we have a Sagaris in uprising.
Maybe, but making a claim like that immediately makes the opposing side stop reading your argument.
I'm trying to appeal to the both sides here.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
1410
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Posted - 2014.02.15 20:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:I will always throw out this little tidbit.
When infantry complained about the contact grenades, they were nerfed into the ground. When tankers complained about AV grenades, infantry told them to HTFU.
You really are quite horrible at making an argument dude. Seems like every thread you post some nonsense that has nothing to do with anything in broken English.
Logical fallacies. Read them. Learn them. STOP USING THEM.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
1415
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Posted - 2014.02.15 21:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
FarQue FromAfar wrote:[quote=Funkmaster Whale]Good Grief... Tanks are dealt with in every match, All you need is 1 good tanker in a Sica to eliminate the tank threat... All I see is everyone QQ about tanks... They are 100 tons of heavy weapon and weapon... Tactics are there to take them out, AV, other tanks, installations ect.... to name a few. If you are not smart enough to deal with tanks, then get better, but for crying out loud get over it.... All this talk about tanks are OP and QQ QQ QQ is taking up too much forum space....
You kind of just proved my point: "All you need to take care of a tank is another tank!"
I'm assuming you're a tanker who's either too blind or naive to understand that hundreds of people complaining could possibly mean something is wrong. Just because you so happen to be on the right side of the current Flavor of the Month doesn't mean everything is OK.
And this wasn't a thread complaining about issues. How about you actually spend the time to, oh you know, read? I know it's a lot to ask but maybe just one time you could try it.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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