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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University Ivy League
296
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Posted - 2014.02.15 16:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
I posted this in reply to another thread, and wanted to see what kind of thoughts CCP has about it. I figure the current CPM is the best way to go about that. Below is basically copypasta.
If I had some authority to make these decisions, and based on what I know now about CCP Shanghai's behind the scenes goings on (which is nil) I was would say...
1.9 priority needs to be finishing up handheld weapons. Each race should have a short / long range version of sidearm, light, and heavy weapon. This would follow what's been established by EVE. New weapons would be in addition to this. At the end, each race should have at least 6 weapons; 2 sidearm, 2 light, and 2 heavy. My reasoning for this is finally having racial suits in 1.8.
1.10 priority needs to be vehicles and vehicle weaponry. The Amarr and Minmatar need LAVs, HAVs, and dropships. Everyone needs MAVs.We need role bonused vehicles back. (I would like to see some kind of covert LAV role and the logi role moved to MAVs (That would be nicely analogous with EVE's CovOps Frigs and Logi Cruisers.) Vehicle weapons need to follow the same pattern as EVE. There should be a racial version of short / long range weapon for small and large turrets. At the end, each race would have at least 4 vehicle turrets; 2 small and 2 large. My reasoning for this is finally having a solid infantry foundation if 1.9 happens like I say it should.
After that, priority should shift to balancing the current/new content, and introducing new features to bring DUST more in line with the New Eden experience. The three biggest things here would be, in no particular order, PVE, New Player Experience, and player market (integrated with EVE preferably, DUST only if that's not a reality in the short term.)
To elaborate on weapons following the patterns of EVE...
The Amarr have Energy turrets (of course they're not limited to Energy turrets.)
In DUST, the Amarr have Laser weapons. (Let's just rename them to Energy weapons.)
Within the Energy turret family there are Pulse Lasers and Beam Lasers. Pulses are essentially short range, fast tracking, high RoF, high DPS, low Alpha, etc. Beams are essentially the opposite.
In DUST, this is filled nicely by the Scrambler Rifle (Pulse) and Laser Rifle (Beam), balance issues aside.
Within the Pulse and Beam families there are Small, Medium, Large, and Capital turrets.
In DUST, we have Sidearm, Light, and Heavy weapons. (We don't necessarily need a Capital equivalent weapon in DUST, but if we did, maybe it could be a particularly large Heavy weapon that had to be deployed to be used and was stationary while in use. Basically a Heavy suit carrying a small turret. But this is neither here nor there.)
Within each family of Small, Medium and Large turrets there are several types of turrets, such as Gatling, Dual, and Focused Pulse lasers.
In DUST, this could match with weapon variants. I'm not happy with the current weapon variants. If the Minmatar's "thing" is a burst fire weapon, a full auto assault variant completely takes that away.
This way, each race would have at least 2 weapons in each size of handheld weapons and turrets. Extra weapons would be in addition to this.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
994
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Posted - 2014.02.16 19:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
To give you some perspective as to how far ahead CCP work on the point builds, from what I've heard, I can tell you that for 1.7 and 1.8, the ground work and what would be the focus of them was decided upon before the new Executive Producer, CCP Rouge came on board.
That is four and a half months ago.... an absolute age in game development.
1.8 is going to add the racial suits sometime in March and if we're lucky 1.9 will hit before Fanfest on May 1. But in all honesty. I don't expect a 1.9 to hit at all.
Right now, CCP Shanghai are working almost exclusively on the next named Expansion from everything that can be deduced from IRC and other titbits of intel. They have another 10 weeks before Fanfest to get it ready. But again because of the lead time they need to give Sony for their validation to be added to PSN, that 10 weeks is actually more like 6.
We also know that even before Fanfest, Rouge and the rest of the team are going to be telling us a lot more about what is coming up in the near future of Dust and hopefully a little beyond that.
I'm guessing that the first of the Dev Blog's will be a week before the patch release. I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that March 11 will be the release date for 1.8.
Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot
CEO of DUST University
CPM1 candidate
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1506
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Posted - 2014.02.16 20:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kevall pretty much nailed most of the important things there.
I would highlight that I find, at this point, the addition of more weapons or vehicles to be somewhat superfluous compared to other priorities.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University Ivy League
305
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Posted - 2014.02.16 22:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's completely arbitrary what the names of the point releases would be. "1.9" could have said "The patch after 1.8" and like wise for 1.10.
As far as more content being superfluous at this point, you're welcome to that opinion. The content I'm talking about though is what I call 'basic content' that we should have had at least by the time CCP decided to officially launch the game. I understand EVE didn't launch with all it has now. It also launched with more than a Gallente Frigate, a Caldari and a Minmatar Cruiser, and an Amarr Battleship. In addition, DUST didn't launch in a vacuum like EVE did. CCP has over 10 years experience under their belt with tried and true concepts that only need to be translated to an FPS setting. Concepts like what I outlined.
I feel that (again, admittedly without any knowledge of the behind the scenes goings on at CCP/Shanghai) without this basic content, things like PVE, a player market, and a NPE, won't have a solid foundation to build on.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1508
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Posted - 2014.02.17 15:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
I disagree. New gear exacerbates balance problems, while tying up art, design, development, and quality control teams to create things that... do the same things our existing weapons already do, with slight differences. They offer only the slightest layer of enhancement to the game, at a very high development cost. Meanwhile, many of the basic elements we need to put the MMO back in our MMOFPS, is relatively light on the graphics team, the design is basically already done, and it just needs to be coded and tested the crud out of. And while weapons add a slight sheen of "look new things" while adding very little to the quality of gameplay overall, adding MMO elements literally changes the game. Something we sorely need right now.
I'd suggest that continuing to just focus on adding weapons would make it hard for the game to sustain a playerbase long enough to ever get to NPE and player market. Because eventually players realize that new guns don't add all that much to the experience.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University Ivy League
310
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Posted - 2014.02.17 15:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
You've completely misrepresented my post in your reply.
This isn't 'new gear'. This is fundamental base line content that has so far been delayed.
As for the effort behind it, without some kind of credibility or insight from CCP, it's a baseless opinion as to whether implementing that delayed content will take any more or less effort than "many of the basic elements we need to put the MMO back in our MMOFPS." To say the
Saying that "weapons add a slight sheen of "look new things"" is disingenuous. Firstly, it's not just about new weapons. It's about racial content, including vehicles and suits (suits that 1.8 takes care of) that, following the pattern of EVE, should have been in game since near the beginning. Secondly, weapons, as it turns out, are a crucial part of an FPS. Who'da thunk? In the case of heavy weapons, we have a quarter of the bare minimum choice of weapons, figuring two weapons per race per size category.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1508
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Posted - 2014.02.17 16:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:Secondly, weapons, as it turns out, are a crucial part of an FPS.
True, but the point is that this is not an FPS. It is an MMOFPS. An MMOFPS where the FPS half has gotten a year of content, which has done almost nothing to maintain the playerbase. A playerbase who has clearly made it known that they came to this game looking for a bit more MMO.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University Ivy League
310
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Posted - 2014.02.17 16:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:A playerbase who has clearly made it known that they came to this game looking for a bit more MMO.
Then you've misinterpreted a large part of the player base. I will tell you that I want this game to be more like EVE, and connect more strongly with EVE. That includes content and mechanics.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1508
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Posted - 2014.02.17 16:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
A year of content and mechanics have done almost nothing for this game. We've had eight versions of Uprising that was nothing but content and mechanics. And Chromosome is still considered the high point of DUST by many. One of the few shining beacons of change in the last year was the FacWar revamp. Which is all core MMO at heart.
Vehicle rebalance? Ruined the game for many. New weapons? Same. Matchmaking changes? That's worked well, right? Um... aiming improvements? Come on.
The reality is, focusing on the FPS side of things hasn't gotten us to a game that's leaps and bounds better than Uprising 1.0. It's time to try something different. 1.8 should put us in a good space with fitting flexibility for them to set that aside and focus on the good stuff.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University Ivy League
311
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Posted - 2014.02.17 16:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Here's some feedback from some of the player base you've apparently written off on lack of content concerning heavy weapons.
I see several posts like this every day about lack of sidearms and suits (both addressed in 1.8, for the most part), heavy weapons, vehicles, and vehicle weapons. I can mail you links as I see them, rather than flooding this thread.
Specifically, I would rather appreciate any current CPMs opinions on this and see if they could get an official CCP response on it.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1510
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Posted - 2014.02.17 16:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'm not writing them off. But I ask you how many of those players would like two more heavy weapons over the player market, the ability to move between stations, and Planetary Conquest being a playable and useful game mode. Or PvE.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Spartacus Dust
The-Legionnaires The CORVOS
115
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Posted - 2014.02.18 06:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
1.10? I think you mean 2.0
Given the blog by CCP Rogue and speeches at Fanfest, it is likely that this year we will see more content than ever and more focus on the MMO than the "Lobby shooter" 1.9 needs to focus on upcoming changes and minor kinks before 2.0
Player driven economy gives everyone the chance to make lots of isk, not just district holders. So I think it's an integral part of the game. Building the link between DUST and EVE is also likely to take priority, so expect PC mechanics to change in the near future.
Twitter @Matthew_Dust
Candidate for the CPM1 One Universe//One War
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1518
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Posted - 2014.02.18 07:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
I doubt we'll even have a 1.9 to be honest, Spartacus. They have a lot of work to do for 2.0 to be ready for Fanfest.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2510
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Posted - 2014.02.18 16:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:I doubt we'll even have a 1.9 to be honest, Spartacus. They have a lot of work to do for 2.0 to be ready for Fanfest. I expect that they will need to make some minor balance changes after 1.8, considering how many sweeping changes they are making in 1.8. So we could well have a patch 1.9 that contains mostly just balance and bug fixes.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Spartacus Dust
The-Legionnaires The CORVOS
117
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Posted - 2014.02.18 17:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't expect 2.0 to come at fan fest at all, as much as I'd like to see it arrive then or even before then, I expect to merely see previews of it or insight into what's going to be in it. So I fully expect to see a 1.9 as Fox mentioned, with minor fixes to 1.8
Twitter @Matthew_Dust
Candidate for the CPM1 One Universe//One War
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
13159
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Posted - 2014.02.21 02:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Would love to see basic racial parity be met as well.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1640
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Posted - 2014.02.21 14:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:You've completely misrepresented my post in your reply.
This isn't 'new gear'. This is fundamental base line content that has so far been delayed.
As for the effort behind it, without some kind of credibility or insight from CCP, it's a baseless opinion as to whether implementing that delayed content will take any more or less effort than "many of the basic elements we need to put the MMO back in our MMOFPS." To say the
Saying that "weapons add a slight sheen of "look new things"" is disingenuous. Firstly, it's not just about new weapons. It's about racial content, including vehicles and suits (suits that 1.8 takes care of) that, following the pattern of EVE, should have been in game since near the beginning. Secondly, weapons, as it turns out, are a crucial part of an FPS. Who'da thunk? In the case of heavy weapons, we have a quarter of the bare minimum choice of weapons, figuring two weapons per race per size category. Agreed, Kigurosaka. While i maintain core mechanics are the highest priority in terms of bringing DUST to viability, complete racial lineups of fundamental base line content is a prerequisite to accomplishing that.
The whole point of completing the base content is to do our final all-content balancing. We need to get that out of the way or we'll be screwing around with it for another year, alienating players and generating another 300 respec threads.
This all should have been done in beta before launch - that's water under the bridge now - but those development sins still haunt us, far better we do the penance now than carry the same mistakes on into the future.
If we fail to execute on this, we will be paying the price in terms of dev hours, community management, player experience and DUST reviews for a long time to come.
I support SP rollover.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1547
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Posted - 2014.02.21 16:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:final all-content balancing
This is never going to happen. This is an MMO, new things will continuously be added, and so the game will always be in need of balance changes.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1646
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Posted - 2014.02.22 07:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:final all-content balancing This is never going to happen. This is an MMO, new things will continuously be added, and so the game will always be in need of balance changes. Of course what you say is true - 10 years in EVE has taught us that. But i like think you understand what i was getting at. Let me know if you want more clarification.
I support SP rollover.
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Heinrich Jagerblitzen
D3LTA FORC3
1536
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Posted - 2014.02.22 22:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Just so we're clear, CCP can't just create whole new weapons and vehicles between patches. They've been releasing content as fast as they finish it, but there's usually several months of work that goes into each set of items, before they come out. They don't start on them when the previous patch ends.
As far as fleshing out racial content in general, we know, and they know, that players are excited to get the rest of the gear. There's no need to convince CCP people want it.
When it comes to recommending a course of action to them - that's a lot trickier to discuss at this time. We are, but most of the future planning is NDA atm, so if I were to post that we're pushing them to finish racial stuff, we'd be being dishonest. We're pushing them on a lot of stuff, but its bigger picture stuff. We'll have a lot to say once CCP opens up about the CPM's involvement in all of this. That much I can promise.
o7 |
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David Spd
Caldari State
136
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Posted - 2014.02.23 03:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:final all-content balancing This is never going to happen. This is an MMO, new things will continuously be added, and so the game will always be in need of balance changes.
I'm sorry but rather than repeating yourself to try and argue how this game is somehow an mmo; how about explaining how, exactly, this game is an mmo to those of us that are unenlightened?
Also, basic racial parity will be the fundementals that all future content will be built from. Being "in need of balance changes" does not fall into the same area as "needing basic core content".
Can you imagine playng a medieval fantasy MMORPG with a class in the fabled "trinity" not yet implemented? Want to try pulling aggro and tanking mobs without a tank/aggro class in the game?
Odd that you keep using the term "mmo" and completely ignore/dismiss his point when your "this is an mmo" argument should actually be supporting him.
People supporting respec may have arguable ground to stand on, but CPM0 support respec as well, because they (and other sensible people) realize that a LOT of people that have been playing for a while got the **** end of the stick since content has been lacking.
Isn't a big thing about MMOs freedom of choice? Well, maybe I want to playan Amarr scout. I also think Ion pistol would be cool. Hell, Caldari heavy seems fun.
Oh, not options? Guess I have two choices: skill into somthing I don't actually want to play so I can experience what little content there is in this game, or simply not play at all.
Once basic racal parity exists, I'm fine with no more respecs. But using "its an mmo and new content will always be created" is a really weak argument.
"MMOFPS" games are rare, becuse the two genres conflict heavily with one another. MMOs are based strongly in power based progression and daily activities to maintain playercount.Good FPS games are skill-based with progression based around adaptability and/or flexibility. Fun mechanics and enjoyable maps/weapons keep people coming to FPS games.
So are you saying tha Dust, a first person shooter on a platform that has been (and continues to be) popular for lobby shooters should thorw a niche concept out for free i the hopes of making itself popular enough to sustain itself and then FOCUS on the unpopular elements?
Rather than continuing to post a wall of text I'll ask you a rhetorical question I want you to think hard about, "On the outside of EVE Online how many people of the general populace want to pla EVE Online and either don't all ready or have at some point in the past?"
EVE Online appeals to a very specific demographic, and people know ahead of time if that type of game interests them. Console players need something familiar, and a strong core game to enjoy so the other foreign concepts have time to grow on them.
Dust's core game should be each race and their unique approaches to the battlefield through racial dropsuits, weapons, and vehicles. Half of that content is missing. Half of the choice is missing. Should people that have been a part of Dust since the beginning really have to be stuck playing the game in a way they may not necessarily have wanted to just because more content will be added later? Once each race's dropsuit and weapon variants are done I think a LOT of the noise will calm down. Will always be people that want more, but majority jst want to play a specific race a specific way that CCP will support in the future.
--> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--
"Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
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Spartacus Dust
The-Legionnaires The CORVOS
129
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Posted - 2014.02.23 04:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
The Game is an MMO.
First of all DUST is merely a portal, the same as EVE and Valkyrie, to a universe called New Eden.
When you think about it, there is a massive amount of people playing both games, that all lead to one event, there is a lot that goes into a professional PC Match. - Dust Politics - EVE Politics - Ships being constructed by hundreds of players - Dust spies/awoxers/thieves - EVE spies/awoxers/thieves` - Dust Corp Fighting - EVE Corps Fighting - Pirates - Ringers - Allies - Enemies - Unaffiliated parties who no have to decided which side they will choose. - Orbital Strikes There are a lot more moving parts than most people seem to realize. _________________ About Freedom of Choice.
While New Eden offers Freedom of Choice, it's not without consequences. You don't get to go back and time and right your poor decisions. No body forced you to skill into X and no one is forcing you to waste your current SP knowing more types of dropsuits and vehicles will eventually come, that is a choice you make as a player. Infact you were given 3 characters, one of them you could have used for gathering SP and stockpiling it, by running ****** militia suit. (not the most fun idea, but it was an option, an option a lot of people use in FW to basically get better than proto gear for free)
Most people who start EVE Online have no idea what they are getting into, the politics, the war, the lies, the betrayal, the friendships, etc. I certainly didn't know what I was getting into, I joined to do orbitals that was it, I didn't know I'd be in one of the biggest battles in EVE history and be a part of something that made international headlines, I didn't know that I would escalate civil war between two alliances, I didn't know that I would spy and sew dissent that made people stop playing the game, I never thought I'd exhort weaker players for made up currency, I didn't know that I'd have a bunch of people looking up to me, adding me on facebook, texting me, and hanging out with in real life, I didn't know any of that was in store for me. All I knew was I wanted to do orbitals for DUST
Dust's core game should not focus on different types of suits, weapons, and vehicles, while I agree that they are important. The core of DUST is the player driven community, How many people made planet fight club or were part of the history of it, how many people rose up and conquered planets against all odds, only to have them taken by those they deemed inferior.
DUST is not a game about cool guns and vehicles, those are great and all, but DUST is a game about a community created universe.
Also for a better understanding of what New Eden is really about: Refer to CCP Hilmar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq1YWbv-r0I
Twitter @Matthew_Dust
Candidate for the CPM1 One Universe//One War
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1663
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Posted - 2014.02.23 12:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
Spartacus Dust wrote:The Game is an MMO. First of all DUST is merely a portal, the same as EVE and Valkyrie, to a universe called New Eden. When you think about it, there is a massive amount of people playing both games, that all lead to one event, there is a lot that goes into a professional PC Match. - Dust Politics - EVE Politics - Ships being constructed by hundreds of players - Dust spies/awoxers/thieves - EVE spies/awoxers/thieves` - Dust Corp Fighting - EVE Corps Fighting - Pirates - Ringers - Allies - Enemies - Unaffiliated parties who no have to decided which side they will choose. - Orbital Strikes There are a lot more moving parts than most people seem to realize. _________________ About Freedom of Choice. While New Eden offers Freedom of Choice, it's not without consequences. You don't get to go back and time and right your poor decisions. No body forced you to skill into X and no one is forcing you to waste your current SP knowing more types of dropsuits and vehicles will eventually come, that is a choice you make as a player. Infact you were given 3 characters, one of them you could have used for gathering SP and stockpiling it, by running ****** militia suit. (not the most fun idea, but it was an option, an option a lot of people use in FW to basically get better than proto gear for free) Most people who start EVE Online have no idea what they are getting into, the politics, the war, the lies, the betrayal, the friendships, etc. I certainly didn't know what I was getting into, I joined to do orbitals that was it, I didn't know I'd be in one of the biggest battles in EVE history and be a part of something that made international headlines, I didn't know that I would escalate civil war between two alliances, I didn't know that I would spy and sew dissent that made people stop playing the game, I never thought I'd exhort weaker players for made up currency, I didn't know that I'd have a bunch of people looking up to me, adding me on facebook, texting me, and hanging out with in real life, I didn't know any of that was in store for me. All I knew was I wanted to do orbitals for DUST Dust's core game should not focus on different types of suits, weapons, and vehicles, while I agree that they are important. The core of DUST is the player driven community, How many people made planet fight club or were part of the history of it, how many people rose up and conquered planets against all odds, only to have them taken by those they deemed inferior. DUST is not a game about cool guns and vehicles, those are great and all, but DUST is a game about a community created universe. Also for a better understanding of what New Eden is really about: Refer to CCP Hilmar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq1YWbv-r0I What you say is true, but.
All experience in DUST is filtered through DUST's FPS controls & mechanics. In DUST, the way we influence New Eden happens at the end of a gun an is made possible by our teamwork, our strategy, our tactics and our personal skill funneled through those FPS game mechanics. If those mechanics betray us and interfere with our abilities then for the vast majority of console FPS player the game, and New Eden, will not be worth investing in. For a console FPS player trying out this strange niche FPS-but-not-an-FPS, fidelity of the core FPS mechanics is a credibility test.
I think where you, and possibly CCP, go wrong in your analysis is the unfounded assumption that New Eden's high end content will act as a balance to unreliable FPS mechanics. I say that will never happen and that going that route will consign DUST to a stunted and dwindling playerbase and DUST itself to irrelevance.
I support SP rollover.
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Spartacus Dust
The-Legionnaires The CORVOS
131
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Posted - 2014.02.23 17:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
FPS Controls and Mechanics, have little to do with releasing new weapons and vehicles. That's more of a content issue.
As for Controls, a lot of people have made the switch to mouse and keyboard or modded ps3 controllers, there's nothing we can do about that.
As for Mechanics, TTK and Hit Detection could use a bit of improvement, and a few things could use balancing.
People usually don't die in this game due to poor control or mechanics, they usually die due to lack of teamwork and tactics on the battlefield.
I never claimed content will balance FPS Mechanics.
That being said, why do people still play Dust? It's no where near as good as a lot of other shooters, what keeps people coming back. Personally I believe it's the ability to create and influence things.
Here's what I do know, EVE saw a large player spike after making international headlines with the largest EVE Battle in history.
That being said, giving DUST the ability to impact the universe on a bigger level will certainly gain it the same level of attention.
Twitter @Matthew_Dust
Candidate for the CPM1 One Universe//One War
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1666
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Posted - 2014.02.23 18:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Spartacus Dust wrote:FPS Controls and Mechanics, have little to do with releasing new weapons and vehicles. That's more of a content issue.
As for Controls, a lot of people have made the switch to mouse and keyboard or modded ps3 controllers, there's nothing we can do about that.
As for Mechanics, TTK and Hit Detection could use a bit of improvement, and a few things could use balancing.
People usually don't die in this game due to poor control or mechanics, they usually die due to lack of teamwork and tactics on the battlefield.
I never claimed content will balance FPS Mechanics.
That being said, why do people still play Dust? It's no where near as good as a lot of other shooters, what keeps people coming back. Personally I believe it's the ability to create and influence things.
Here's what I do know, EVE saw a large player spike after making international headlines with the largest EVE Battle in history.
That being said, giving DUST the ability to impact the universe on a bigger level will certainly gain it the same level of attention. DUST has a less than 1% new player retention rate. According it IWS a big chunk of this is happening in the academy. You seriously think that has nothing to do with controls and the way the game feels?
Tell me this: what %age of DUST reviews point out awkward controls and clunky feel?
I support SP rollover.
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Levi McDaniel
NECROM0NGERS The CORVOS
74
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Posted - 2014.02.23 19:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
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Spartacus Dust
The-Legionnaires The CORVOS
131
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Posted - 2014.02.23 19:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
If you could point out where I said, "I think player retention has nothing to do with controls and the way the game feels?" I'd appreciate it.
Also those reviews are from last year, before a lot of changes were made. I'm sure a lot of new player frustration comes more from getting proto stomped than anything else.
A common cry in any FPS is "I unloaded a whole magazine into that guy and he didn't die. WTF" That cry is probably multiplied by 1,000 in DUST where skilling into weapons, and dropsuits, fitting it with good modules, having repair nanohives will give you an advantage over some guy who thinks he knows how to fit his dropsuit.
If the game has less than 1% new player retention it is unlikely I am going to get my friend who tried it and quit to come back to it. While I think New player retention is important, VETERAN Player retention is even more so. PC needs to be fixed, there are hundreds of people bored out of their mind who can't compete due to the current state of PC Mechanics.
Twitter @Matthew_Dust
Candidate for the CPM1 One Universe//One War
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1553
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Posted - 2014.02.23 23:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
David Spd wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:final all-content balancing This is never going to happen. This is an MMO, new things will continuously be added, and so the game will always be in need of balance changes. I'm sorry but rather than repeating yourself to try and argue how this game is somehow an mmo; how about explaining how, exactly, this game is an mmo to those of us that are unenlightened?
How this is an MMO is something I shouldn't have to explain, though others have done an excellent job before I got to this reply, so defer to that.
The importance of the distinction, however, is that an MMO is never "done". It's never "final", and neither will balance.
A standard FPS releases with complete game mechanics. And they do not change. You may notice that DLC packs for Call of Duty or Battlefield never add new game mechanics or weapons that destabilize the balance of the game. They just add more maps. Maybe a new game mode, that doesn't affect play in the others. The balance never changes from that initial game release.
However, like any good MMO, DUST will always be releasing new content and new features. Each one of those features will destabilize the careful balance the game previously had, so the game is never balanced. And content is never done. Things will constantly shift as CCP tweaks things again and again, year to year.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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TEXA5 HiTM4N
ROGUE SPADES
446
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Posted - 2014.02.24 02:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
i still say CCP should have released all weapons around two updates ago and stat tweak every 4 days or so. then when that is done release all suits then take around a month to stat tweak them. This would have saved a lot of time and not to mention some of the player base.
Everything I say or do has the utmost importance.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1554
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Posted - 2014.02.24 02:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
TEXA5 HiTM4N wrote:i still say CCP should have released all weapons around two updates ago and stat tweak every 4 days or so. then when that is done release all suits then take around a month to stat tweak them. This would have saved a lot of time and not to mention some of the player base.
It seems like you missed Heinrich's post, or didn't understand it. CCP has been working on these things for a long time. They aren't releasing these suits in 1.8 because they decided to work on them between 1.7 and 1.8. These suits have likely been in the works since 1.0 in some shape or form, and are just now ready for release.
CCP cannot simply pick a feature to work on, and have it ready next month. Monthly release cycles do NOT mean that each patch includes work that was done in the previous month.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2601
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Posted - 2014.02.24 17:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
We are at a strange time in the history of DUST 514. It is simultaneously the most promising and the most frustrating that the game has ever been.
Many base mechanics have been improved: - Hit detection is mostly working. - KBM/DS3 are mostly balanced. (KBM users curse Aim Bot while DS3 users curse instant strafing. They are complaining equally.) - Vehicles have a new paradigm involving waves of opportunity. - Basic mechanics have been greatly improved, allowing the FPS to run more smoothly. You donGÇÖt get stuck to walls, and the lag is far less than it used to be.
However the tuning is off which makes it very frustrating: - TTK is way too short. You donGÇÖt have a chance to react before you die. This is very Frustrating! This also reduces us to two fit styles, either brick tank with as much armour as possible to survive long enough to react, or stealth fit to make sure you are the one who shoots first. Which makes fitting, one of the draws of this game, a whole lot less interesting.
- Vehicle/Anti Vehicle (V/AV) is out of balance. While Forge guns are in an ok place, all the AV available to Medium and Light frame suits are under powered. This makes ordinary infantry feel helpless when there are many tanks on the field. Currently the only really effective counter to Tanks available to Medium Frame infantry is the Jehad Jeep which involves sacrificing your own clone in the process.
However, TTK and V/AV balance are just a matter of adjusting stats. While balance is difficult to achieve, trial and error alone would eventually get them somewhere close. 1.8 promises improvements to TTK, and some minor adjustments to V/AV balance. While I expect with so many changes in 1.8 that there will be some new problems, I am expecting that overall the game will be less frustrating and more enjoyable.
Racial Parity: 1.8 also brings the completion of the base suit sets, to finally achieve full racial parity in dropsuits. I think that having suit parity is important due to how much the suit effects the play style and how many points you need to fully invest in a suit. (This is why I support a Dropsuit Command Respec on this occasion.) I would expect CCP to continue to work on weapon parity, and introduce more weapons as they go, but the skill point investment to use a weapon is much less, and having some weapon diversity is a good thing, so I donGÇÖt think any respec will be needed when the last of the Heavy Weapons are introduced. (In a tight urban map you will want to use an HMG rather than the Laser Cannon anyway, unless you are a complete Amarr purist.)
When Amarr and Minmitar vehicles and turrets (Laser & Projectile) are introduced I can see their being an argument for a respec on the Vehicle & Turret trees again. I think that should be the last respect. Hopefully after that, CCP will introduce full racial sets when they introduce a new class of something. Granted they may add specialty items to just a single race in an existing class, such as the Plasma Cannon. I donGÇÖt have a problem with that, and donGÇÖt think such would be grounds for a respec, as long as the class of item already has at least one for each race.
MMO vs FPS: When we suggest that CCP needs to start focussing more on the MMO aspects of DUST we are not saying that they should stop working on bug fixes and balance effecting the FPS aspect of the game. We are saying that once the FPS aspect gets to acceptable levels, that the developers who were taken off of working on MMO content to help fix the FPS problems DUST had in 1.0, should be put back on developing MMO content such as PVE, open market, and social interfaces. There will always be some developers dedicated exclusively to the FPS aspect of the game and while I think it will be a long time before DUST is as refined as COD or BF, I expect we will soon be getting close enough not to scare off FPS vets.
The draw of DUST over other FPS games is its complexity. You still get the player skill based FPS combat, but with the complexity of an MMO where character development (Skill point allocation) and equipment effect the outcome of a fight as well. It also has the connection to EVE and all the politics and intrigue that brings. Granted, dust is still fairly simple, and the link to EVE is still very tenuous, but these are things that will build over time with each iteration. The MMO supporters are simply saying, lets start working on those aspects. Get the clunky 1.0 versions of open market an PVE into the game, and iterate on existing aspects such as PC (with PC 2.0) to get things moving and to give players more to do.
NPE: I will say though that there will always need to be a fairly uncomplicated first step in DUST. The pre-made Starter fits are an example of what I am talking about. An FPS vet will wont to be able to jump right in and start shooting stuff right away. Have the complexity build on the progression from that point. The new player experience will have to be worked on so that people can jump in and get a feel for the game without having to spend 5 hours reading first. The complexity of the game is something they should be able to discover as they start thinking about how to progress. It would help greatly if they were not dumped into the deep end to sink or swim after just two or three academy matches.
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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TEXA5 HiTM4N
ROGUE SPADES
446
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Posted - 2014.02.24 20:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:TEXA5 HiTM4N wrote:i still say CCP should have released all weapons around two updates ago and stat tweak every 4 days or so. then when that is done release all suits then take around a month to stat tweak them. This would have saved a lot of time and not to mention some of the player base. It seems like you missed Heinrich's post, or didn't understand it. CCP has been working on these things for a long time. They aren't releasing these suits in 1.8 because they decided to work on them between 1.7 and 1.8. These suits have likely been in the works since 1.0 in some shape or form, and are just now ready for release. CCP cannot simply pick a feature to work on, and have it ready next month. Monthly release cycles do NOT mean that each patch includes work that was done in the previous month.
I know. i am saying that when they release new content they have a guy or small team to number tweak based on our feedback. This would be much better than leaving stuff broke for 2-3 months and not even address the issue until the damage is done
Everything I say or do has the utmost importance.
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