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Berserker007
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
406
   |
Posted - 2014.02.14 21:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Now, before the flame train or any sort of that occurs, read through everything with an open mind if you never used one and just think of how gameplay can/would/is impacted... that said, on with the show
As ive have stated in most of my recent posts, I haven't really played since 1.5 (the good days), but I still watch quite a few videos that people post on here, and the RND PC matches as I'm sub'd to their uploaders from my MAG days with the group. When 1.7 hit I jumped onto dust to try the game out again for the new weapons (as I will prob w/ 1.8 as well), but was terribly disappointed with how the game felt through and through (could be b/c for last 5 months back to PC gaming, and playing Planetside 2).
One thing I noticed right away besides the massive fotm w/ Gal logi's and such, were the use of these remote scanners. After watching several groups PC games, and all in general, it got me thinking on the use of remote scanners and the function and in my belief hindrance to gameplay flow. Now I know w/ 1.8 it was said by the devs that RS will be "limited" in use to stop this 360 spin scan, which is a start; however I believe the full removal of the RS would be more effective.
Before the bashing begins, the way I see it, RS's are essentially and See-to-Win tool, ie a WALL HACK. Granted, some games have added this feature to a unique and favorable extent (Blacklight Retribution), because it is an ability that everyone can use from the start up and cannot be mitigated (I believe ... yes I know everyone can skill into it). However, here in Dust, the RS is the essence of a wall hack. It allows the user and anyone within range to get pinpoint whereabouts of the enemy without them shooting, being seen, spotted, etc. The only way to counter this is have dampers skilled into, and on your dropsuits. This tool (RS), it a massive gameplay hindrance, as it allows the rich to stay richer. Parts of the community have been asking for more balance (in all aspects), one with regards to what people use. This leads into the newcomers. Right out of the academy, with your minimal amount of SP, to get suits, survivability and weaponry, you lack the tool to counter these measures (hell with me at 28M I prob cant counter it unless my setups greatly suffer).
To me though, the most significant reduction of "skill" in the use of the RS, is that is creates a "lack" of map (both visual, and mini) awareness to what is around you. Prior to the introduction of RS's, squad/teammates relied on their communication and spotting/shooting-marking targets. Now, all you need is a simple flick of a trigger and the enemy team is marked and spotted. This greatly takes about from a intense scenario, of what is behind this wall or corner. It takes away the thrill of what could happen.
I realize that RS's have become a corner stone to the game, one I believe has hindered the gameplay in giving easy awareness and lack of "strategy" to counter such issues. With 1.8 on the horizon, I feel this may even worsen with scouts. The benefit of having the scan radius, dampeners, etc should be passive abilities.
To aid in the stealth game that it seems RS's wish to counter (and the scouts new passive), I'd look to CCP to add silencers/flashhiders/compensators that would alter your muzzle signature (of AR/smg/pistol type weapons), and make greater use of the scanning abilities skills, rather then taking away player awareness less into account with the use of RS's negating that possible advantage. As some of the greatest moment I've had in dust when I played was when I would be rounding a corner and having that " Ohhhh SH*T" moment that makes me sweat and shake with excitement and nervousness in what would happen next.
So yeah, insuring argument/flame/discussion occur (yes reposted from differ area) |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Renegade Alliance
213
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 21:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Everyone "hates" them now. Wait until they're nerfed and less people on your team have them and see how fast people will be begging for the good old scanners to comeback. |
Piercing Serenity
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
564
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 21:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Berserker007 wrote:Now, before the flame train or any sort of that occurs, read through everything with an open mind if you never used one and just think of how gameplay can/would/is impacted... that said, on with the show
As ive have stated in most of my recent posts, I haven't really played since 1.5 (the good days), but I still watch quite a few videos that people post on here, and the RND PC matches as I'm sub'd to their uploaders from my MAG days with the group. When 1.7 hit I jumped onto dust to try the game out again for the new weapons (as I will prob w/ 1.8 as well), but was terribly disappointed with how the game felt through and through (could be b/c for last 5 months back to PC gaming, and playing Planetside 2).
One thing I noticed right away besides the massive fotm w/ Gal logi's and such, were the use of these remote scanners. After watching several groups PC games, and all in general, it got me thinking on the use of remote scanners and the function and in my belief hindrance to gameplay flow. Now I know w/ 1.8 it was said by the devs that RS will be "limited" in use to stop this 360 spin scan, which is a start; however I believe the full removal of the RS would be more effective.
Before the bashing begins, the way I see it, RS's are essentially and See-to-Win tool, ie a WALL HACK. Granted, some games have added this feature to a unique and favorable extent (Blacklight Retribution), because it is an ability that everyone can use from the start up and cannot be mitigated (I believe ... yes I know everyone can skill into it). However, here in Dust, the RS is the essence of a wall hack. It allows the user and anyone within range to get pinpoint whereabouts of the enemy without them shooting, being seen, spotted, etc. The only way to counter this is have dampers skilled into, and on your dropsuits. This tool (RS), it a massive gameplay hindrance, as it allows the rich to stay richer. Parts of the community have been asking for more balance (in all aspects), one with regards to what people use. This leads into the newcomers. Right out of the academy, with your minimal amount of SP, to get suits, survivability and weaponry, you lack the tool to counter these measures (hell with me at 28M I prob cant counter it unless my setups greatly suffer).
To me though, the most significant reduction of "skill" in the use of the RS, is that is creates a "lack" of map (both visual, and mini) awareness to what is around you. Prior to the introduction of RS's, squad/teammates relied on their communication and spotting/shooting-marking targets. Now, all you need is a simple flick of a trigger and the enemy team is marked and spotted. This greatly takes about from a intense scenario, of what is behind this wall or corner. It takes away the thrill of what could happen.
I realize that RS's have become a corner stone to the game, one I believe has hindered the gameplay in giving easy awareness and lack of "strategy" to counter such issues. With 1.8 on the horizon, I feel this may even worsen with scouts. The benefit of having the scan radius, dampeners, etc should be passive abilities.
To aid in the stealth game that it seems RS's wish to counter (and the scouts new passive), I'd look to CCP to add silencers/flashhiders/compensators that would alter your muzzle signature (of AR/smg/pistol type weapons), and make greater use of the scanning abilities skills, rather then taking away player awareness less into account with the use of RS's negating that possible advantage. As some of the greatest moment I've had in dust when I played was when I would be rounding a corner and having that " Ohhhh SH*T" moment that makes me sweat and shake with excitement and nervousness in what would happen next.
So yeah, insuring argument/flame/discussion occur (yes reposted from differ area)
So, not only do I appreciate the post, but I more or less agree with you. Here are the arguments you're most likely to hear:
"The game used to be even less balanced!"
- Active scanners were a step in the right direction, from a time where everyone could see everyone else on the minimap, as long as they were in someone's LOS. While I do think that removing that feature was a good thing, scanners should be very restrictive for the massive info bonus they give.
"This is just another form of tanking you have to adapt to, Stealth Tanking!"
- True, but as you mentioned, the degree to which another player has to sacrifice on their fitting is disproportionate to what a logi (and to a much lesser extent an assault) has to sacrifice.
"You run a med-frame and expect to be able to do everything well!"
- Possibly true. I don't know about you, but I run a med-suit. I can live with being able to beat scanners if I give up two low slots. That seems fair to me.
"If it's so useful, just skill into it!"
- Poor balance argument
"It is balanced! Whenever my scanner is out, I can't shoot. Therefore there is less DPS/Pressure/etc"
- Poor argument. There might be an initial DPS dip while the scanner isn't shooting, but it is more than made up for when a whole squad of people focuses fire on one or two targets that they can see before they round the corner
I'll write some more here If I can think of any,
DUST 514 BETA VET
16.2M Lifetime SP
SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
|
Berserker007
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
406
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 21:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
well, not sure I will fall in that group; as during my time of playing, I never had RS's to use and the gameplay seems much more fun/intense/interesting. Maybe the new breed of dusters will want them back b/c they have become so reliant on them.
Who knows though |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
826
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 21:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't think I've ever seen people refer to them as "remote scanners". For a minute I thought you were arguing for scanners that could detect remote explosives o.o
Anyway, active scanning is going to get hit hard when 1.8 comes and I think people who complain about not being able to flank will have no problem doing so in 1.8, even if they don't run dampeners.
If it all goes according to my plan, scanning will be nerfed so hard (via new scan mechanics) that most people won't bother with dampening at all, which means I will be able to passively detect all mediums/heavies on my scout without any additional precision enhancers... mwuahaha... |
Berserker007
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
406
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 21:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
[quote=Piercing Serenity
So, not only do I appreciate the post, but I more or less agree with you. Here are the arguments you're most likely to hear:
"The game used to be even less balanced!"
- Active scanners were a step in the right direction, from a time where everyone could see everyone else on the minimap, as long as they were in someone's LOS. While I do think that removing that feature was a good thing, scanners should be very restrictive for the massive info bonus they give.
"This is just another form of tanking you have to adapt to, Stealth Tanking!"
- True, but as you mentioned, the degree to which another player has to sacrifice on their fitting is disproportionate to what a logi (and to a much lesser extent an assault) has to sacrifice.
"You run a med-frame and expect to be able to do everything well!"
- Possibly true. I don't know about you, but I run a med-suit. I can live with being able to beat scanners if I give up two low slots. That seems fair to me.
"If it's so useful, just skill into it!"
- Poor balance argument
"It is balanced! Whenever my scanner is out, I can't shoot. Therefore there is less DPS/Pressure/etc"
- Poor argument. There might be an initial DPS dip while the scanner isn't shooting, but it is more than made up for when a whole squad of people focuses fire on one or two targets that they can see before they round the corner
I'll write some more here If I can think of any, [/quote]
will say, I am highly surprised at someone agreeing and understanding where I was trying to do with this; as your point were exactly what I was trying to hit on and what I'd of went more in-depth on pending on how other reacted.
In what your points, I agree full heartedly as well. As in all situations you/I have given both sides of the argument and more or less knocked them out.
One thing I think that would help the idea of spotting/marking besides LOS (which is just ehh), but have a spotting button like in BF, that would work off of your scan skills (and be scan/spot), as instead of oo area to post, the sklling into those abilities would increase your spotting/scan range etc
And, let the discussion from the community continue .... |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
592
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 21:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
i think they will be a balanced tool come 1.8. No 360 scans, and a longer cool down. They will only be able to be used for a short period of time, and will give scouts more of a role versus other frames. it makes the choice of being a scout over a med frame for stealth a good idea
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
|
Berserker007
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
406
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 21:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:I don't think I've ever seen people refer to them as "remote scanners". For a minute I thought you were arguing for scanners that could detect remote explosives o.o
Anyway, active scanning is going to get hit hard when 1.8 comes and I think people who complain about not being able to flank will have no problem doing so in 1.8, even if they don't run dampeners.
If it all goes according to my plan, scanning will be nerfed so hard (via new scan mechanics) that most people won't bother with dampening at all, which means I will be able to passively detect all mediums/heavies on my scout without any additional precision enhancers... mwuahaha...
and I think that is a benefit to running a scout. You lose hp but get the passive benefit to infiltrate (Planetside 2 talk here) into enemy territory and get the glimpse of what is going on and take out threats or just provide up close recon w/o putting yourself in danger. At the same time it isn't instawin of using a RS (ima keep with the RS) and if other medium/heavy suits skill into dampeners (even if don't run them on their suit), it will mitigate how far you can be before you are either spotted, or before you can "see" them on radar
My main idea is to make the ability to see/be seen a pure passive ability with skilling, and makes players have to be more map aware instead of use of relying on a imbalanced tool. As like it was mentioned, having to prep suits to counter the scans is detrimental to the suits classes, as it takes away from survivability in both hp and damage, in order to keep yourself unseen.
Granted I also think CCP will mess up cloaks so badly that it will break the game too; but that a differ discussion |
boba's fetta
Dead Man's Game
282
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 21:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
get in a squad scanners are good for team play. stop asking for nerfs and actully stop running solo all the time. they are already going to be a gall logi only thing at the current level.
electronic warfare should stay and be expanded upon.
my name is boba and im a hoarder.
|
Berserker007
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
406
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 21:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
boba's fetta wrote:get in a squad scanners are good for team play. stop asking for nerfs and actully stop running solo all the time. they are already going to be a gall logi only thing at the current level.
electronic warfare should stay and be expanded upon.
Ahhh, if took time to read what myself and other said, it isn't about whether you are playing in a group or solo; it is the nature of what the item does itself. If anything, atm funning in squads w/ all logi (as they are), it makes things even worse.
The whole concept is that the active scanners are intawin walls hacks; w/ the only ability to counter if running dampeners which may not even work; thusly it reduces your suits abilities whereas there is no cost for the player using the scanner, as id bet 99/100 times they aren't taking fire, so no cost except suit CPU/PG which isn't a "real cost" |
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