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Awry Barux
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
494
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Posted - 2014.02.11 20:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Vengeful Dead wrote:As with all combat related games Dust has a lot of players who call for balancing and nerfing any equipment, weapon, dropsuit, or vehicle that they think beats them too quick. Is that really what everyone wants though? Making all of those things balanced and equal would destroy the diversity and detail in a lot of the battle strategy and tactics that true Dust junkies love so much. Every item in the Dust Universe is unique being that it has its own benefits and weaknesses, and its that diversity that sparks the need for tactics in combat, it fuels an exciting battle of technology and strategy.
INCORRECT.
Take Starcraft 1 as an example- the races, while each absolutely unique and diverse, were absolutely gorgeously well-balanced against each other. Balance and sameness are not at all the same concept, and you're treating them as though they were. Balancing through sameness is the territory of bad and lazy game designers. |
Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
511
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Posted - 2014.02.12 05:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
hgghyujh wrote:and yet the perfect imbalance video gets linked again, it is true that "perfect balance" is boring and that that is what too many people are pushing for, actually the OPs argument is null and void because half of this games history is a "perfect balance" with powerful nich weapons being roughly equal to the jack of all trades, which means the JOAT aka the AR(untill this build) has been the most used most effective weapon, with little to no diversity suit set up, so yes we need to stop looking at a such a drab sense of balance because it makes for a boring game, on the other hand straight imbalance is not the answer either IE the massive gap between new players and vets,(30milSP player here). so watch the vid below and try to think of balance in that way, also try to understand the underlying game mechanics, IE when you have a gun that cant miss if the target is anywhere in the reticule you can't use fire rate to balance that weapon despite that being the better option then using DPS. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDQQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3De31OSVZF77w&ei=hOb6UpLGMIWS1AGZioGQCg&usg=AFQjCNHI6XExdHeP-gHsdd0qxT_OsLAuLw&sig2=vL6HIHfdHEcpPF7FplymQQ
I can't be bothered to spend 6 minutes listening to some youtube video, so I'm just going to comment on your actual post.
I think we have two different definitions of perfect balance...to me, "perfect balance" does not mean that powerful niche weapons are equal to the jack of all trades weapon within their niche. In fact, it means precisely the opposite... a well-balanced game should have the JOAT win outside the opponent's niche, while the niche weapon wins if the opponent can successfully manipulate the game flow enough to use their niche weapon at optimal efficiency.
Balance to me should mean that different playstyles (i.e. heavy vs scout) have an equal chance of killing each other, with the winner being decided by which player, squad, or team can force their opponent(s) into a situation where their chosen playstyle is at a disadvantage.
HMG heavy versus a JOAT rifle is a good example- the heavy wants to bait the rifle user in to close quarters, where the HMG's superior DPS can shred them, while the rifler wants to catch the heavy off guard at range and pick them off. This is where tactics and teamwork come in, and where the game really gets fun. |
Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
540
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Posted - 2014.02.13 18:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vengeful Dead wrote:General12912 wrote:Vengeful Dead wrote:Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Vengeful Dead wrote:As with all combat related games Dust has a lot of players who call for balancing and nerfing any equipment, weapon, dropsuit, or vehicle that they think beats them too quick. Is that really what everyone wants though? Making all of those things balanced and equal would destroy the diversity and detail in a lot of the battle strategy and tactics that true Dust junkies love so much. Every item in the Dust Universe is unique being that it has its own benefits and weaknesses, and its that diversity that sparks the need for tactics in combat, it fuels an exciting battle of technology and strategy. Okay. Nah seriously it's a joke ? "Diversity" is TankStomp ? Weakness of RR is ? Before trying to protect your OP weapons just THINKS how fun the game is when the whole game is fuckd up. It's not FUN. Maybe it is for you to push a button to win and kill everything. But we're not an AI, be killed or kill people in a single button without any difficulty IS BORING. I don't use very advanced equipment, in fact 90% of what I use is basic. I'm not protecting Op weapons for me to use them, I'm protecting the enjoyment from playing against people who do use them, as well as trying to maintain a large amount of diversity in the tools we use in this game, giving everybody more options to choose from as far as how to set their fittings and playstyles accordingly it wont work in diversity's favor. if there is a weapon, and its OP, everybody will use it. not much of anything else will be used. look at how many people are running around wit the rail rifle/combat rifle right now in 1.7 because its OP. making one weapon more powerful than another does not balance playstyles. it favors the playstyle(s) of the powerful weapon(s). Dont have time rite now to write a nice lengthy reply for you, but Fizzer94's post, # 19, does a great job of explaining why I believe your theory isn't accurate
Uuuuuugh. I posted this in reply to Fizzer's copy-pasting of his post to another thread, and I'll post it here too.
While I agree conceptually with every single word Fizzer said, this semantics game is pissing me off- what you're describing is perfect balance, not imbalance. The balancing of niche vs JOAT is like levers- a big weight (strong advantage) close to the fulcrum (having less versatility) is perfectly balanced against a lighter weight (minimal advantage) further from the fulcrum (more versatile). The weights are different (what you're calling imbalance), but system as a whole is balanced.
The reason this is irritating me is that now we have people shooting down calls for proper game balance by using this semantic straw-man of balance meaning sameness and imbalance being desirable. This is incredibly dumb. We all want the same thing- for every weapon and suit to be viable, providing it is used properly. |
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