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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
738
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Posted - 2014.02.11 03:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
To the CPM and CPM 1 candidates,
I'm requesting your comment on this thread reference the CCP proposed assault suit bonuses.
According to CCP Saberwing he and CCP Remnant have read and acknowledged the significant amount of feedback reference the proposed Caldari Assault suit bonus needing to be re-worked and apparently have decided that we will like the reload bonus better despite the very consistent response to the contrary.
Questions to the CPM and Candidates...will you go on record as to your positions on this topic and your reactions to CCP Remnant's response?
If possible can you dual post into the thread linked above to give the community greater exposure to your response.
Thank you for your time.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
738
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Posted - 2014.02.11 04:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Link broken, one to many http's
Fixed. Thanks for the notification.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
738
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Posted - 2014.02.11 05:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:I'm more concerned about them changing the minmatar explosive weapon bonus. The reload bonus sounds alright, cuts down on the extra sp sink in RR for each weapon.
There is no indication that they have removed the reload speed skill for any of the Caldari weapons. In theory you can bring the total reload down by, what...50% if you max the skill and suit bonus. Doesn't really contribute to the long range flanker style.
Additionally, you can achieve the same effect with the Commando and get the additional dmg bonus based on the proposed suit stats.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
739
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Posted - 2014.02.11 16:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:While I think too many partons have undersold the value of the rapid reload (which is excessively powerful bonus and thousands of more dps per minute but thats just a terrible scenario) far too many have made the argument on how lame the bonus was without any clear intentions of either providing a better bonus nor clearly defining the issue at hand that the rail rifle itself among one of four weapons to potentially benefit is what one would call a 'perfect' weapon.
Thus appropriately any % x bonus to the rail rifle would and should be meet with nearly equal amounts of wtf or lame.
I am afraid that for the caldari rail rifle and magsec to be better harmonized with an assault suit skill worthy for the assault would be to significantly raise their charge times to the point it becomes an inconvenience to most operators; make it a very uncomfortable weapon to use in cqc, or even in its extended range but not make it too high of a charge that one cannot get the first shot out before he dies to a threat he prepared against first.
Gallente bonus is another bag of beams I am afraid.
IWS for the record I said haven't said that 25% addition to reload is insignificant. My point to CCP Saberwing is that there are significantly more useful perks to explore that highlight the Caldari playstyle or directly mitigate the primary short coming of a given racial weapons suit (I.e. Minmatar and Amarr).
My other concern is that the bonus is mimicked in the Commando class and you can select a SP sink option in all weapons rapid reload already. The reload time of a shield tank hit-n-run race that focuses on long range striking power isn't a major deficit.
A quick search of the relevant threads indicate several viable options for useful perks that aren't OP or unrealistic.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
739
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Posted - 2014.02.11 16:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote: I would say that that those that claim that reload means nothing should reevaluate their playstyle with that suit as find a another that suits their style better. Your not playing to the strengths of the suit, you want the suit to play to yours. And when too many are doing that, then balancing become almost impossible.
Kevall,
You are making some fairly strong statements in reference play style options...the disconnect is the perception of playstyles.
Based on the high DPS, stand and trade in CQC style of the Gallente I can make a much more relevant case for the Gal to have the proposed Caldari reload bonus.
Again, no one is saying the bonus isn't substantive but when taken into account against the relative playstyle of the Caldari the bonus is devalued for the Assault specialist. Consider these factors: rail weapons are low ROF giving longer trigger time, they are optimized for longer range fights where engagements can be less frenetic, and the Caldari shield tank is based on strike / withdraw / strike tactics. All of these factors devalue the reload bonus to the Caldari but doesn't mean it's not a solid bonus to perhaps other suits.
So, to your point of playing with the strengths of the suit - how does the reload bonus play to the strengths of the Caldari Assault?
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
739
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Posted - 2014.02.11 22:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:So, to your point of playing with the strengths of the suit - how does the reload bonus play to the strengths of the Caldari Assault?
You already answered that. The Caldari are a long/range hit and fade playstyle. Play to that playstyle, staying at range, kiting the enemy from there then rapid reload becomes very important. It enables a constant level of DPS from range. If your rushing into cqc using a rail gun, when it's designed to be best used at range then that is not playing to it playing style and part of the reason the RR is considered OP at the moment. Because it can work well at both range and cqc is why it's replaced the AR as the go to light weapon choice. The hip fire and dispersion bonus for the Gallante Assault is perfect for how the AR should operate, short to midrange, within the cities. Rapid reload is perfect for the longer range RR as it minimises the time an enemy has to rush you so they can bring their weapons to its optimal range. Particularly when the rail weapons have smaller ammo clips to burn through.
I think well have to agree to disagree on this one. We are simply seeing different perspectives of the Caldari playstyle. I have been shield tank pure / CalAssault from day one and actually try to play it that way and at least in my experiences I don't have the same overwhelming need for more a reload bonus than I can already get via the weapon skill tree SP sink.
Thoughts on double tapping the reload bonus with the Caldari Commando class or that it already has the aforementioned weapon SP sink option? This was a key issue for me...have multiple options to offset reload speed if I wanted, I didn't need another.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
739
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Posted - 2014.02.12 15:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:With a longer TTK the Shield suit play style of ducking behind cover for a moment to allow your shields to regenerate will be a lot more viable, and the bonus will also allow you to reload every time you do so without as much fear of getting caught out in the middle of a reload cycle by an enemy flanking you.
You need to look at all the changes together.
Essentially a Caldari Assault suit with a Rail Rifle, played the way the Caldari Assault suit was designed to be played, will always have ammo in the magazine.
I think some of us are looking at the changes holistically. Like i said, reload bonus isn't a throwaway...it is less useful to the Caldari than the bonuses the other races are getting (save perhaps Gallente).
I can already short up my reload speed via a weapon skill and while playing the mid to long range style we both agree is Caldari in nature I've rarely been flanked in the way you describe. I've been rolled up plenty of time but usually because I didn't see them coming...certainly not due to reload speed.
If you want the long range suppression role (steady rate of fire and minimal reload breaks) the Caldari Commando seems tailor made for that. I can get the EXACT same reload bonus + weapon reload SP sink AND get a damage bonus to rail rifles.
So what is giving the CalAssault a distinct flavor or highlights their playstyle? Are they just meant to be a speedier version of the CalCommando?
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
741
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Posted - 2014.02.12 20:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:With Caldari Assault to 5 and Reload to 5:
The Bolt Pistol will reload in 1.35 seconds. That is only about 3 times the normal delay between shots (ROF is 0.4) Damage per shot ranges from 135 to 148.5.
Not to mention what it will do to the Tactical Sniper Rifle.
The Magsec SMG will reload in 1.6 seconds, which is not half bad either.
Again...the reload time reduction is significant but I can get the exact same stats plus damage buff with the CalCommando.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
742
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Posted - 2014.02.14 01:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Again...the reload time reduction is significant but I can get the exact same stats plus damage buff with the CalCommando. Can you think of a bonus that could be applied to Rail weapons that would be equivalent to the other bonuses other than reload speed? I mean without changed all the bonuses to something completely different?
Good question...i've seen several possible solutions and here are a few: 1) decreased spool time for rail tech weapons. Roughly, I think CCP will probably increase spool time by X % and my proposal would be to have rail tech (light and sidearm) have a reduction of spool time per level so that it's roughly, perhaps a sliver more, than it is now.
This is very much inline with the Amarr and Minmatar bonuses that are proposed and spool reduction is the only weapon drawback i'm aware of that currently doesn't have an SP sink to offset it somewhere.
2) 5% Reduction in recoil per level would be a pretty solid bonus. Even if the bonus was only applied in ADS that would still be fairly solid.
3) I think some of the defensive perks suggested to lowering recharge delay are workable but I'm not in favor of those for the assault suits as the bonuses probably need to be a bit more offensive in nature I think.
4) One slightly different approach would be a mild increase in range and ADS zoom paired together. Say a 2% increase in Optimal and effective range per level and 3% ADS zoom per level.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
743
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Posted - 2014.02.14 15:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Again...the reload time reduction is significant but I can get the exact same stats plus damage buff with the CalCommando. Can you think of a bonus that could be applied to Rail weapons that would be equivalent to the other bonuses other than reload speed? I mean without changed all the bonuses to something completely different? Good question...i've seen several possible solutions and here are a few: 1) decreased spool time for rail tech weapons. Roughly, I think CCP will probably increase spool time by X % and my proposal would be to have rail tech (light and sidearm) have a reduction of spool time per level so that it's roughly, perhaps a sliver more, than it is now. This is very much inline with the Amarr and Minmatar bonuses that are proposed and spool reduction is the only weapon drawback i'm aware of that currently doesn't have an SP sink to offset it somewhere. I like this solution, if the charge time on the Rail Rifle is increased slightly. The bonus would make it so that Caldari Assault could use the Rail Rifle effectively in CQC, but other suits would have to pair it with a CQC sidearm. I assume this bonus would effect the Charged Sniper Rifle as well.
That's generality the idea.
I've thought for a long time the Amarr Assault bonus was the model to use when looking at how role / racial bonuses can add depth to the game. I was a long time SCR user prior to the RR coming out and I could be effective with the weapon but there was a small and distinct advantage the Amarr Assaulters had when using the laser weapons that I didn't have access to.
Basically, the overall concept would be to highlight the synergy between using Racial Suits and Racial Weapons while making sure it doesn't pigeon hole you into certain combos.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
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