DUST Search - Suggestion- Modules for weapons and Dropsuits separated

KA24DERT wrote:

A few issues:

1) The lack of variety in fittings in the game is due to the incredibly high BASE output of the rifles in the game. Aside from specialized fits like hack suits, it makes no sense to fit anything but Gank or Tank, and even then the milliseconds of survivability that plates and shields get you are pitiful. Lower the base rifle output and you'll see more variety in fittings.

2) It has been very difficult to balance the existing weapons in the game without the extra variables that weapon attachment will introduce.

3) The limited dropsuit slot layout is a part of balancing fittings. You have to make choices while making a fit. Do I want more Health? More Damage? More Speed? More Range? Less Dispersion? More Zoom? If you split these off into a separate weapon fitting, you don't have to make hard choices any more, you can do it all, and that's bad.

4) It will decrease the scenario advantage of one weapon over the other. This is why I also disagree with the rifle variants(Tac-Ar, assault rail rifle?). Niches are important to the metagame, and being able to modify one weapon to emulate another is bad for that meta.

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Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 170	Posted - 2014.02.10 03:38:00 - [1] - Quote Now many of us know that weapons will have attachables at some time in the future of Dust as was announced in Fanfest 2013. I noticed a lot of good points people placed out about modules for damage and defensive means. Things like precision enhancement and range amplification are truly neglected from the majority of the players due to the simple truth of how damage modules are so much more appreciated as well as shield extenders and armor plates. The other modules like melee damage increase, dampening, and all forms of other defensive modules and some offensive modules are overlooked because of how the current module system is designed. My Suggestion: I suggestion when weapon attachments for Dust comes into play, the weapons themselves have PG/CPU and module slots similar to that of the suits. By doing this we will see an increase in player variety in customization and give players more a reason to use other modules other than damage modules and health increase. Essentially turning weapons into its own Loadout system similar to that of the Drop Suit Customization. Weapon Modules- modules for weapons should consist of attachment that improve the weapons effectiveness in battle. Such things would be clip size increase, rate of fire increase, shield damage focus at the expense of base damage decrease, armour damage focus at the expense of base damage decrease, increase blast radius, scopes (4x, red dot sight, 8x, 12x, holograph, ect.) and all sorts of other things. Essentially the weapon modules are attachments themselves which would be governed by your same system for drop suits on the CPU/PG and modules slots for weapon balance. This would give players a reason to choose between getting a scope for one fitting or getting a weapon with more damage output. By doing this player will have another layer to customization and tactical fittings. Ideally the best way to keep some weapons from overwhelming everything else in customizations is have a drawback to every module like base damage decrease, longer reload time, or larger dispersion. (that last part is my opinion, up for debate) Dropsuit Modules- basically remains the exact same with the exception of no longer having damage based modules this will allow players to create more defensive options for their suits and with weapons getting their own modules, the dropsuit increase in modules availability will still be a balanced and tactical system. Think about it, with weapons having more means to enhance their damage output and effectiveness in battle the dropsuits getting those additional slots no longer used by the damage mods will free up additional defense making the whole system more accessible for freely customizing whatever fits they feel fit their play style. This is my idea of Fittings in Dust If you like this idea like it, if you disagree post and let me know what your thoughts are and why you disagree.
Travis Stanush GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 3	Posted - 2014.02.10 04:14:00 - [2] - Quote seems legit +1
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 170	Posted - 2014.02.10 17:53:00 - [3] - Quote Bumping back up to the list
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 482	Posted - 2014.02.10 20:50:00 - [4] - Quote A few issues: 1) The lack of variety in fittings in the game is due to the incredibly high BASE output of the rifles in the game. Aside from specialized fits like hack suits, it makes no sense to fit anything but Gank or Tank, and even then the milliseconds of survivability that plates and shields get you are pitiful. Lower the base rifle output and you'll see more variety in fittings. 2) It has been very difficult to balance the existing weapons in the game without the extra variables that weapon attachment will introduce. 3) The limited dropsuit slot layout is a part of balancing fittings. You have to make choices while making a fit. Do I want more Health? More Damage? More Speed? More Range? Less Dispersion? More Zoom? If you split these off into a separate weapon fitting, you don't have to make hard choices any more, you can do it all, and that's bad. 4) It will decrease the scenario advantage of one weapon over the other. This is why I also disagree with the rifle variants(Tac-Ar, assault rail rifle?). Niches are important to the metagame, and being able to modify one weapon to emulate another is bad for that meta.
NoxMort3m D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 398	Posted - 2014.02.10 21:21:00 - [5] - Quote I agree, have a thread thats similar suggesting weapon mods go into a new weapon mod slot and i mention a few ideas fo additional weapon mods to fill said slot Director:Diplomat Search DL514 to apply
NoxMort3m D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 398	Posted - 2014.02.10 21:24:00 - [6] - Quote Linkage. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1750853#post1750853 Director:Diplomat Search DL514 to apply
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 267	Posted - 2014.02.10 21:30:00 - [7] - Quote Weapons will have rig slots: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rigs I'm here since may 2012, my EVE alter ego is Nosum Hseebnrido.
TunRa D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 474	Posted - 2014.02.10 23:47:00 - [8] - Quote +1 for diversity. Thanks CCP Foxfour
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 175	Posted - 2014.02.11 05:00:00 - [9] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: A few issues: 1) The lack of variety in fittings in the game is due to the incredibly high BASE output of the rifles in the game. Aside from specialized fits like hack suits, it makes no sense to fit anything but Gank or Tank, and even then the milliseconds of survivability that plates and shields get you are pitiful. Lower the base rifle output and you'll see more variety in fittings. 2) It has been very difficult to balance the existing weapons in the game without the extra variables that weapon attachment will introduce. 3) The limited dropsuit slot layout is a part of balancing fittings. You have to make choices while making a fit. Do I want more Health? More Damage? More Speed? More Range? Less Dispersion? More Zoom? If you split these off into a separate weapon fitting, you don't have to make hard choices any more, you can do it all, and that's bad. 4) It will decrease the scenario advantage of one weapon over the other. This is why I also disagree with the rifle variants(Tac-Ar, assault rail rifle?). Niches are important to the metagame, and being able to modify one weapon to emulate another is bad for that meta. Thanks for putting your input. I do have a counter argument but I will post it in a reply next time. I am currently time crunching.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 178	Posted - 2014.02.20 01:43:00 - [10] - Quote bumping for more feedback

Terry Webber Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 414	Posted - 2014.02.20 06:07:00 - [11] - Quote Great ideas, Minor! Join Turalyon 514 today! Click here for more info.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 183	Posted - 2014.02.22 09:53:00 - [12] - Quote Terry Webber wrote: Great ideas, Minor! thanks bud.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 220	Posted - 2014.02.22 16:38:00 - [13] - Quote We already variants. Customization only makes sense if you remove those variants. Otherwise it will be pointless miniscule adjustments that amount to a game of "write a script for effectiveness maximization" that is restarted with every balance adjustment.
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 392	Posted - 2014.02.22 16:57:00 - [14] - Quote I could support something like a DUST version of the Jury Rigging skill to jury rig our weapons. I thin ka full blown module system for weapons would be a bit over the top. Weapon variants as they are currently are nothing more than a headache. If you want a fully auto weapon, the Combat Rifle isn't for you. Oh wait, there's a variant that completely goes against the essence of the Combat Rifle. Weapon variants need to be rethought and weapon rigging could fill a valuable role. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 184	Posted - 2014.02.23 20:49:00 - [15] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: We already variants. Customization only makes sense if you remove those variants. Otherwise it will be pointless miniscule adjustments that amount to a game of "write a script for effectiveness maximization" that is restarted with every balance adjustment. I do agree with that. By removing variants we would have more balance for the customization in the game. But third tier cuztomization is coming to the game at some point in time as was announced in fanfest, So what I am proposing is a way to balance customization for these weapons in the game. Lets face it, Most variants for the weapons in Dust have little use outside of assault variant especially the rifles. By adding customization instead of variants would maximize effectiveness in battle since the player would get to determine how to manage the weapons output in effectiveness.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 184	Posted - 2014.02.23 20:53:00 - [16] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: I could support something like a DUST version of the Jury Rigging skill to jury rig our weapons. I thin ka full blown module system for weapons would be a bit over the top. Weapon variants as they are currently are nothing more than a headache. If you want a fully auto weapon, the Combat Rifle isn't for you. Oh wait, there's a variant that completely goes against the essence of the Combat Rifle. Weapon variants need to be rethought and weapon rigging could fill a valuable role. Perhaps a whole module system for the weapons could be a bit much, But Dust 514 is a game about "outside of the box" ideas. Dust is a game where instead of a simple battlefield we are taking districts and planets from other players as a persistent world. So why not make customization just as persistent and has just as much growth.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 184	Posted - 2014.02.23 21:03:00 - [17] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: A few issues: 1) The lack of variety in fittings in the game is due to the incredibly high BASE output of the rifles in the game. Aside from specialized fits like hack suits, it makes no sense to fit anything but Gank or Tank, and even then the milliseconds of survivability that plates and shields get you are pitiful. Lower the base rifle output and you'll see more variety in fittings. 2) It has been very difficult to balance the existing weapons in the game without the extra variables that weapon attachment will introduce. 3) The limited dropsuit slot layout is a part of balancing fittings. You have to make choices while making a fit. Do I want more Health? More Damage? More Speed? More Range? Less Dispersion? More Zoom? If you split these off into a separate weapon fitting, you don't have to make hard choices any more, you can do it all, and that's bad. 4) It will decrease the scenario advantage of one weapon over the other. This is why I also disagree with the rifle variants(Tac-Ar, assault rail rifle?). Niches are important to the metagame, and being able to modify one weapon to emulate another is bad for that meta. First off, I want to say that customization is not my idea. What my suggestion in dust is to balance customization when its introduced by means of a module system we currently use. CCP has already plan to add customization in dust, here is the proof. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKYglEoJyNc#t=693
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 184	Posted - 2014.02.27 00:57:00 - [18] - Quote bumping back up
Magpie Raven ZionTCD 337	Posted - 2014.02.27 05:06:00 - [19] - Quote Yes! Ive mentioned something like this several times but you've managed to say it much more clearly than I have. Im all in favor of you idea her. I would only make a couple changes. First of all I think CCP should do away with weapons increases damage as they go up tiers. It makes everything very unbalanced and not fair to new players. Instead let the weapons become more and more customizable over all creating guns that are more powerful and effective in some ways but not outright better than anything below it. The way I think of it is Internal and External Modifications. Internal Mods- Affects the weapons actual functioning. Increase damage, range, RoF, Spread, recoil and so on. External Mods- Includes things like sights, magazine types, ammo types, silencers, barrels, flash hider etc To balance it all is that each weapon, as you go up tiers, gain slots and PG/CPU to alter how the weapon works. Internals boost performance in one area while causing a smaller penalty in another. Some external mods will grant a smaller bonus with no penalties to it in some way counteract some of the penalties of Internals. Ex. sight increases accuracy, special barrels that decrease spread or muzzle climb There would be different tiers that increase the bonus and penalty. I think penalties should vary depending on weapon type though. Say increase damage on a projectile would increase kick while on a laser weapon it would cause it to over heat faster. This way the player can change their weapons stats and customize it to enhance what they want and still have some control over the penalties. This way the player could pack their weapon full of fancy Internals and have a weapon that is very effective or spend most of the PG/CPU on External things like sights, lasers, quick reload mags, and barrels making a very functional tactical type weapon. Or they could go the middle of the road and use lower grade mods to make a weapon that is over all better than other weapons in lower teirs.
Morrison Brown Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 0	Posted - 2014.02.27 06:47:00 - [20] - Quote I like the idea of the internal and external mods. I do think that guns should increase effectiveness with tier increases, however. Leveled matchmaking in public would fix this, and let FW be open season.



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