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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1240
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Posted - 2014.02.09 23:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
This was one of the features frequently mentioned early in dusts beta. What ever happened to it?
Wouldn't starting procedural landscape generation make for more interesting/varied combat environs with little work from CCP? Hell, if Dwarf Fortress can make procedurally generated terrain work why can't Dust?
Fun > Realism
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dullrust
Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION
43
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Posted - 2014.02.10 03:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
yep need some random maps already. I been saying this on the forums for a while. I mean really everyone knows the lay of the land and the interior of the buildings before they even spawn in. Besides the FACT that it's boring. This also hands vets another advantage over newer players. It also leads to the exact same tactics run over and over again.
Is every planet made up of the exact same features? Are they also located in exactly the same places? Is every mining operation set up in exactly the same way? Is every research facility set up exactly the same? The answer is no. But it seems dust (and by connection eve) just deals in carbon copies of everything. If ccp really wanted to be different. Then this would be, no should be, high on the list.
Every game has the same maps run over and over. Nobody does random maps. The others get away because these maps are mostly from story/single player mode. Or from actual RL history. That don't work here ccp. You want people to belive they are fighting somewhere else? Then you better make it look and feel like somewhere else.
Ccp has more than enough to build HUNDREDS of maps. This is just with what they have now. But they are held up trying to balance everything. They will be stuck doing this over and over. Why? Because it the same everything all the way down to the tactics. Seriously sit back and watch the battles. There are only minor changes to how it plays out. That side does this. this side does that. It's all decided by which tactics are run first. It's like some kind of live action chess with limited pieces on the same board.
Okay I gotta stop. I'll stop ranting now. you can have your thread back sir with a +1.
HAVE A NICE DAY!!!
I am nobody.
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SOMBRA del MUERTE
The Exemplars Top Men.
28
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Posted - 2014.02.10 04:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
If they make it more openworld, they could make the more stable procedures get more permanent as they are tested while the sandbox expands. |
General12912
Gallente Marine Corps
58
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Posted - 2014.02.10 11:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
it could certainly add a virtual 'fog of war effect' neither side would be so familiar with the environment. that would result in even more iffy tactics made by each team.
however, keep in mind that procedurally generated land is relatively new to games, and so the tech for it sometimes allows for buggy landscape. it might even make cetain objectives unreachable. how would you feel if you needed one more cannon to get in the lead, but objective 'B' is buried in sand? |
X7 lion
Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives
109
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Posted - 2014.02.10 11:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
the problem lies dear fellow in the capability of the machine (ps3) it cant handle it, even if they turrain was generated server side it would need to either be streamed or downloaded to the ps3 (streaming the generation info being the more likely) on top of every thing els would hinder performance, alot of the good features dust can have just cant happen on such old hardware.
I am death incarnate, you will not see me or hear me.
You shall only feel the strike of my blade.
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Corbina Ninja
Maphia Clan Corporation
609
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Posted - 2014.02.10 12:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
procedurally generated terrain in Dust is impossible but they should change the sockets on some maps that are the same always and add micro socket on all maps which rocks, trees, debris, abandoned vehicles, containers or nothing. so as to change the shape and the number covers
> Test Signature Please Ignore
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1250
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Posted - 2014.02.10 13:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
If the issue with procedural generation of terrain is that the PS3 would be bogged down trying to constantly stream new map info that is more understandable than other concerns. As far as server side generation goes it would seem to be very doable. Perhaps we will have to wait for a PS4 version so that we can have the 1000+ battlefield variants we have all dreamed about.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1250
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Posted - 2014.02.10 13:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
General12912 wrote:it could certainly add a virtual 'fog of war effect' neither side would be so familiar with the environment. that would result in even more iffy tactics made by each team.
however, keep in mind that procedurally generated land is relatively new to games, and so the tech for it sometimes allows for buggy landscape. it might even make cetain objectives unreachable. how would you feel if you needed one more cannon to get in the lead, but objective 'B' is buried in sand?
I think this could be handled by implementing rules for the procedural terrain generation that followed simple common sense. For example that the terrain needs to have flat spaces large enough for 1 - 4 small sockets and 0-1 large sockets. The terrain around these sockets cannot exceed a y delta of what ever we can walk up and that the maps need to auto smooth areas so that while we will get some extreme terrain it will be, for the most part, composed of rolling hills.
Failing to implement rules about y deltas around sockets could result in some really neat maps tactically though. Imagine maps where each socket is on top of a "Devil's Tower" like piece of terrain. We would all end up using dropships for our assaults which would be fun and hair raising once the forges started flying.
Fun > Realism
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1882
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Posted - 2014.02.10 13:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Almost everything that CCP announced for the PS3 will never happen. Why? Because the PS3 is outdated, it was outdated years ago and that won't change today or tomorrow. CCP needs to begin looking into the future and forget this "there are x amounts of PS3's out there" ideology and realize 90% of them are in pawn shops or being scrapped.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1666
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Posted - 2014.02.10 13:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
The plan wasn't to generate planet surfaces on the fly. Initially the plan was to use the textures of the planets in Eve to generate a surface that kind of matched it, which would then be adjusted (by hand) to remove problem areas. The problem with this method is that it would take an astounding amount of disk space.
That's why they went with the terrain + socket + mood combo thing. Once there are a certain number of terrains and sockets you'll basically never play on the same map twice in one night. I think the biggest thing they could do to improve this though is to design the playable areas of each terrain to be much larger than they are and then make the redline shape another variable. If you're playing line harvest again it won't feel like line harvest if what we now know as the northern part of the map was in the southern end. By shifting the playable area around you could make a wildly different experience. Hardware limitations might make this impossible but it's an idea. |
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1252
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Posted - 2014.02.10 13:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:The plan wasn't to generate planet surfaces on the fly. Initially the plan was to use the textures of the planets in Eve to generate a surface that kind of matched it, which would then be adjusted (by hand) to remove problem areas. The problem with this method is that it would take an astounding amount of disk space.
That's why they went with the terrain + socket + mood combo thing. Once there are a certain number of terrains and sockets you'll basically never play on the same map twice in one night. I think the biggest thing they could do to improve this though is to design the playable areas of each terrain to be much larger than they are and then make the redline shape another variable. If you're playing line harvest again it won't feel like line harvest if what we now know as the northern part of the map was in the southern end. By shifting the playable area around you could make a wildly different experience. Hardware limitations might make this impossible but it's an idea.
How would hardware be a limitation here? Our PS3's already have the whole terrain map stored so simply randomizing where the sockets are placed and setting the redline to surround those sockets shouldn't be a huge change it its workload (it also is pretty limited info to stream).
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4575
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Posted - 2014.02.10 13:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:This was one of the features frequently mentioned early in dusts beta. What ever happened to it?
Wouldn't starting procedural landscape generation make for more interesting/varied combat environs with little work from CCP? Hell, if Dwarf Fortress can make procedurally generated terrain work why can't Dust? A friend of mine works in the map design department of Sony Online Entertainment.
All the maps in Planetside 2 are procedurally generated.
His team then spends the next three months getting the map into a playable state, as the generation process leaves it full of broken textures, stuck spots, and sometimes crash-causing errors.
Everyone remember the planets in Mass Effect, that were all designed using a fractal generator? Remember how much fun those were to traverse?
The idea sounds fancy and like it could promise thousands of maps with little work, but the reality is far removed from that.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1666
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Posted - 2014.02.10 14:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
The problem in my idea is that the existing maps would need a high level of detail over a much larger area. Like right now if you run up to the redline and look off into the distance you can see that the terrain looks normal for a short distance and then turns into a blurred mess. If the redline was gone and you ran out there it would look just as blurred when you got close. That's to cut down on memory requirements when you're loading into a match. If they raise the level of detail it increases the amount of data they need to load.
Unless they figure out a way to make the terrain LOD dynamic, based on the redline location, without having to store multiple copies of the terrain on the disk. |
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