DUST Search - I got the six-kin combat rifle...

Korvin Lomont wrote:

Charlotte O'Dell wrote:

Honestly, it is not OP by itself, but like with anything that is decent by itself, damage mods make it evil.

However, having used it, and knowing it has a lower DPS than the Duvolle AR, I wonder if it would seem more balanced if shield tanking were more prevelant.

I have similar feelings about the rail rifle- would it seem more balanced if armor tanking were not the most common form of tanking?

I don't think a nerf was necessary (at least, to DPS). At long ranges, it did what it was intended to do, but in CQC, it dominated far too well. What SHOUDL'VE happened was a tightening of the hipfire to just less than a laser and a huge increase in kick when not ADSing.

Still, the damage mod nerf was more a better solution than other things.

However, with the RR nerf, and the CR probably next in line, I can see light weapons starting to become balanced. I'd rather the good weapons get nerfed than the bad weapons get buffed because a low TTK is no good for nerds.

The Six kin has what 4 DPS less than a duvolle? But more range so its more usefull at range while having the same effectiveness in CQC (maybe even more thanks to high ROF) so whats the advanatge of the CQC king over the ACR? Right the ACR is simply overall better and there is litte reason to use the AR over the ACR.

The only reason I can see is the higher damage per clip wich allows to eiher engage multiple targets at once or to be less accurate when firing (as you have more reserve).

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Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1889	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:36:00 - [1] - Quote Honestly, it is not OP by itself, but like with anything that is decent by itself, damage mods make it evil. However, having used it, and knowing it has a lower DPS than the Duvolle AR, I wonder if it would seem more balanced if shield tanking were more prevelant. I have similar feelings about the rail rifle- would it seem more balanced if armor tanking were not the most common form of tanking? I don't think a nerf was necessary (at least, to DPS). At long ranges, it did what it was intended to do, but in CQC, it dominated far too well. What SHOUDL'VE happened was a tightening of the hipfire to just less than a laser and a huge increase in kick when not ADSing. Still, the damage mod nerf was more a better solution than other things. However, with the RR nerf, and the CR probably next in line, I can see light weapons starting to become balanced. I'd rather the good weapons get nerfed than the bad weapons get buffed because a low TTK is no good for nerds. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 537	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:42:00 - [2] - Quote I am fairly certain that the Six Kin CR does not have less DPS than the Duvolle AR. Also, at "long ranges" what it should have done was "not do so hot," as it's the 2nd shortest ranged weapon (of the rifles) in the game. Your post doesn't seem to indicate that it suffered at long ranges. I contribute nothing.
DISGRUNTLEDev 329	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:42:00 - [3] - Quote Why is tightening of the hipfire bad again?
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1889	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:44:00 - [4] - Quote DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: Why is tightening of the hipfire bad again? Remember the HMG pre-1.7? It was a cqc laser. It was perfectly accurate, and therefore, useless in cqc. Make the RR the same and watch. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4084	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:45:00 - [5] - Quote The Six kin is garbage compared to the Boundless. GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 4 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4531	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:46:00 - [6] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Honestly, it is not OP by itself, but like with anything that is decent by itself, damage mods make it evil. However, having used it, and knowing it has a lower DPS than the Duvolle AR, I wonder if it would seem more balanced if shield tanking were more prevelant. I have similar feelings about the rail rifle- would it seem more balanced if armor tanking were not the most common form of tanking? I don't think a nerf was necessary (at least, to DPS). At long ranges, it did what it was intended to do, but in CQC, it dominated far too well. What SHOUDL'VE happened was a tightening of the hipfire to just less than a laser and a huge increase in kick when not ADSing. Still, the damage mod nerf was more a better solution than other things. However, with the RR nerf, and the CR probably next in line, I can see light weapons starting to become balanced. I'd rather the good weapons get nerfed than the bad weapons get buffed because a low TTK is no good for nerds. You cannot NERF a weapon based on Damage Mods being Broken. Thats like people like myself who dont use Damage Mod get F* over with our weapons. So now if you want to kill you need a damage mod as a requirement,because Charlotte and CCP ''balanced'' these weapons surrounding these modules? F* that. Sorry i sounded rude, im not mad or anything, just saying what i must... Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
DISGRUNTLEDev 329	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:47:00 - [7] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: Why is tightening of the hipfire bad again? Remember the HMG pre-1.7? It was a cqc laser. It was perfectly accurate, and therefore, useless in cqc. Make the RR the same and watch. Wasn't that a product of turn speed? I would love tighter hipfire with my CR, I use it as a shotgun anyways.
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1889	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:47:00 - [8] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Honestly, it is not OP by itself, but like with anything that is decent by itself, damage mods make it evil. However, having used it, and knowing it has a lower DPS than the Duvolle AR, I wonder if it would seem more balanced if shield tanking were more prevelant. I have similar feelings about the rail rifle- would it seem more balanced if armor tanking were not the most common form of tanking? I don't think a nerf was necessary (at least, to DPS). At long ranges, it did what it was intended to do, but in CQC, it dominated far too well. What SHOUDL'VE happened was a tightening of the hipfire to just less than a laser and a huge increase in kick when not ADSing. Still, the damage mod nerf was more a better solution than other things. However, with the RR nerf, and the CR probably next in line, I can see light weapons starting to become balanced. I'd rather the good weapons get nerfed than the bad weapons get buffed because a low TTK is no good for nerds. You cannot NERF a weapon based on Damage Mods being Broken. Thats like people like myself who dont use Damage Mod get F* over with our weapons. So now if you want to kill you need a damage mod as a requirement,because Charlotte and CCP ''balanced'' these weapons surrounding these modules? F* that. Sorry i sounded rude, im not mad or anything, just saying what i must... You totally didn't read at all. I'm not explaining myself to an idiot. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1861	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:49:00 - [9] - Quote Six kin and duvolle have matched numerical DPS, but the Six kin has 5% higher DPS if you account for the damage profile. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 902	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:52:00 - [10] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: Why is tightening of the hipfire bad again? Remember the HMG pre-1.7? It was a cqc laser. It was perfectly accurate, and therefore, useless in cqc. Make the RR the same and watch. Uh, I used to use the damn thing to drill heads at point blank thanks to well, sheer armor tank. Yeah, my gun is super accurate and only works at really close range, so I just jam it into your chin while I fire. Best was other heavies who thought it was a cone weapon, they would spray and sweep, and I'd just center the thing on their faceplate and pop 'em like an overripe melon. and why should a close range weapon that's based on landing a lot of shots quickly instead of a few powerful ones have massive kick per bullet? If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.

Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 433	Posted - 2014.02.09 04:42:00 - [11] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Six kin and duvolle have matched numerical DPS, but the Six kin has 5% higher DPS if you account for the damage profile. THis the CR -5% to shields and +5% to armor makes it great against armor, and really not bad Vs shields, Need to be _15 to shields and +15 to armor in my opinion, because based off eve lore projectile weapons do the worst against shields right under explosives.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2180	Posted - 2014.02.09 05:13:00 - [12] - Quote We honestly won't know how weapons work till dmg mods are changed or just plain dropped. After that, we can truly judge weapons. My prediction? The CR and ScR will we be OP. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2813	Posted - 2014.02.09 05:16:00 - [13] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: I am fairly certain that the Six Kin CR does not have less DPS than the Duvolle AR. Also, at "long ranges" what it should have done was "not do so hot," as it's the 2nd shortest ranged weapon (of the rifles) in the game. Your post doesn't seem to indicate that it suffered at long ranges. ACR is hard to use past 60m. It takes so many shots to kill, most targets will have time to get to cover before you can do too much real damage. It's great at 40-60m though. Absolutely fantastic. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4541	Posted - 2014.02.09 05:25:00 - [14] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Sorry i sounded rude, im not mad or anything, just saying what i must... You totally didn't read at all. I'm not explaining myself to an idiot.[/quote] I was just referring to the damage mod part not to the whole post. Thanks for the insult, totally uncalled for. Then again i dont care..... Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 540	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:19:00 - [15] - Quote In regards to my previous comment, I made a mistake. I was thinking of the regular variant, which is the Boundless, not the Six Kin. The Boundless has too high a DPS and too long a range. Short optimal (not too much longer than blasters, actually) and a nice long falloff curve is the hallmark of projectile weapons. Beck Weathers wrote: THis the CR -5% to shields and +5% to armor makes it great against armor, and really not bad Vs shields. If only. It's actually -5% against shields and +10% to armor, giving it the best profile in the game. Every other profile evens out to 100%, but the projectile profile evens out to 105%. I contribute nothing.
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1529	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:32:00 - [16] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: In regards to my previous comment, I made a mistake. I was thinking of the regular variant, which is the Boundless, not the Six Kin. The Boundless has too high a DPS and too long a range. Short optimal (not too much longer than blasters, actually) and a nice long falloff curve is the hallmark of projectile weapons. Beck Weathers wrote: THis the CR -5% to shields and +5% to armor makes it great against armor, and really not bad Vs shields. If only. It's actually -5% against shields and +10% to armor, giving it the best profile in the game. Every other profile evens out to 100%, but the projectile profile evens out to 105%. thats because prjectile weaposn have the highest fall off, dispersion and recoil in the game. i dnt understand why everyone looks at the advantages of the CR, SMG and HMG and just complete ******* forget about the disadvantages, and then nerf it into oblivion. so now the only advantage it has will be completely ruined and then it will be perfectly broke. galente AR will be OP again. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1529	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:34:00 - [17] - Quote galente AR will be OP again. because now in 1.7 it has the lowest DPS of the ARs but has 0 draw backs other than range (but it has the best damage fall off) in 1.8 the galente AR un nerfed will have the highest DPS amog the ARs (except the Scr) and have no draw backs. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1867	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:35:00 - [18] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: galente AR will be OP again. because now in 1.7 it has the lowest DPS of the ARs but has 0 draw backs other than range (but it has the best damage fall off) in 1.8 the galente AR un nerfed will have the highest DPS amog the ARs (except the Scr) and have no draw backs. How do you know it will have such dps? Armor and Shields are not the same!
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6302	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:36:00 - [19] - Quote It's DPS is lower, but it seems to be easier to handle. Don't know what it is, but it just feels like more bullets hit. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Shadow Archeus OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 272	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:41:00 - [20] - Quote I've been saying remove damage mods all together for ages........how are we supposed to balance the base weapon if stacking damage mods is the norm... Its just boring If anything change damage mods to reflect the weapon you're using Example: instead of heavy light and sidearm mods how about plasma, projectile and missile, rail, laser Each one could increase the damage output in different ways Plasma could increase raw damage by a small margin for plasma weapons only Rail would increase ROF by a small margin for rail weapons only Projectile and explosive would get an increased magazine size for explosive weapons and projectile weapons Laser would decrease the heat buildup by a small margin for laser weapons only Thoughts? Real heavies use lasers

Repe Susi Rautaleijona Top Men. 1012	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:45:00 - [21] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: The Six kin is garbage compared to the Boundless. Full auto and semi auto have different profiles and both have their fans. I have been used to full auto rifles because they're easier to use but now I've started to use burst and find it better in most situations. But nothing beats six kin in certain situatiosn. Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. ~ Isaac Asimov
Kierkegaard Soren Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 212	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:51:00 - [22] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: D legendary hero wrote: galente AR will be OP again. because now in 1.7 it has the lowest DPS of the ARs but has 0 draw backs other than range (but it has the best damage fall off) in 1.8 the galente AR un nerfed will have the highest DPS amog the ARs (except the Scr) and have no draw backs. How do you know it will have such dps? How good the gal ar ends up being in 1.8 will depend largely upon how CCP decide to tackle damage mods, proffs and damage profiles. They've hinted thus far that weapons that woke well against shields will have the proff skill boost this but not its armour penetration, essentially turning proff into a specialisation skill. Thing is, hybrids have equal damage profiles against both defense types, so will the proff skill reflect this? My hunch is that other weapons will gain a +3% per rank increase to its favoured damage type! whilst hybrids will only gain +2% per rank! keeping them relatively balanced (I think). If this is the case then the gal ar will become the cqc king once more, owing to its damage profile versatility. But we shall see. CCP are close to patch note finalisation, and they know we really want to hear about this. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6307	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:52:00 - [23] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: Why is tightening of the hipfire bad again? Remember the HMG pre-1.7? It was a cqc laser. It was perfectly accurate, and therefore, useless in cqc. Make the RR the same and watch. On the contrary, it would make it even more OP. It was just the nature of the HMG that made it worse with that accuracy. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 598	Posted - 2014.02.09 14:29:00 - [24] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Honestly, it is not OP by itself, but like with anything that is decent by itself, damage mods make it evil. However, having used it, and knowing it has a lower DPS than the Duvolle AR, I wonder if it would seem more balanced if shield tanking were more prevelant. I have similar feelings about the rail rifle- would it seem more balanced if armor tanking were not the most common form of tanking? I don't think a nerf was necessary (at least, to DPS). At long ranges, it did what it was intended to do, but in CQC, it dominated far too well. What SHOUDL'VE happened was a tightening of the hipfire to just less than a laser and a huge increase in kick when not ADSing. Still, the damage mod nerf was more a better solution than other things. However, with the RR nerf, and the CR probably next in line, I can see light weapons starting to become balanced. I'd rather the good weapons get nerfed than the bad weapons get buffed because a low TTK is no good for nerds. The Six kin has what 4 DPS less than a duvolle? But more range so its more usefull at range while having the same effectiveness in CQC (maybe even more thanks to high ROF) so whats the advanatge of the CQC king over the ACR? Right the ACR is simply overall better and there is litte reason to use the AR over the ACR. The only reason I can see is the higher damage per clip wich allows to eiher engage multiple targets at once or to be less accurate when firing (as you have more reserve).
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 259	Posted - 2014.02.09 14:51:00 - [25] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: We honestly won't know how weapons work till dmg mods are changed or just plain dropped. After that, we can truly judge weapons. My prediction? The CR and ScR will we be OP. You CANNOT compare the ScR to the CR...there are far less shield tankers out there and with 80% to armor and an overheat mechanic, how it it "OP" again? Scr and commando enthusiast. ARC Commander "A closed mouth gathers no foot"
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1531	Posted - 2014.02.09 18:26:00 - [26] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: It's DPS is lower, but it seems to be easier to handle. Don't know what it is, but it just feels like more bullets hit. it is easier to handle because it has no recoil, almost no damage fall off, and is fully automatic hit scans. its got the lowest dps by 7% (yes app. 7% less dps than the other rifles averaged out), but has the fewest down sides. the CR on the other hand has the most draw backs and the second highest DPS. the highest being a tie between the Scr and the RR. RR for obvious reasons the Scr only if the person has a turbo controller. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1531	Posted - 2014.02.09 18:27:00 - [27] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: We honestly won't know how weapons work till dmg mods are changed or just plain dropped. After that, we can truly judge weapons. My prediction? The CR and ScR will we be OP. You CANNOT compare the ScR to the CR...there are far less shield tankers out there and with 80% to armor and an overheat mechanic, how it it "OP" again? Scr is OP because at proficiency 3 you do 100+ damage in one uncharged shot to armor. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1531	Posted - 2014.02.09 18:33:00 - [28] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Honestly, it is not OP by itself, but like with anything that is decent by itself, damage mods make it evil. However, having used it, and knowing it has a lower DPS than the Duvolle AR, I wonder if it would seem more balanced if shield tanking were more prevelant. I have similar feelings about the rail rifle- would it seem more balanced if armor tanking were not the most common form of tanking? I don't think a nerf was necessary (at least, to DPS). At long ranges, it did what it was intended to do, but in CQC, it dominated far too well. What SHOUDL'VE happened was a tightening of the hipfire to just less than a laser and a huge increase in kick when not ADSing. Still, the damage mod nerf was more a better solution than other things. However, with the RR nerf, and the CR probably next in line, I can see light weapons starting to become balanced. I'd rather the good weapons get nerfed than the bad weapons get buffed because a low TTK is no good for nerds. The Six kin has what 4 DPS less than a duvolle? But more range so its more usefull at range while having the same effectiveness in CQC (maybe even more thanks to high ROF) so whats the advanatge of the CQC king over the ACR? Right the ACR is simply overall better and there is litte reason to use the AR over the ACR. The only reason I can see is the higher damage per clip wich allows to eiher engage multiple targets at once or to be less accurate when firing (as you have more reserve). your forgeting something. the six kin has 4 DPS less than a duvole but the duvole has almost twice the range and efficacy at range. Duvole has no recoil, dispersion and negligible damage fall off. six kin has rediculous recoil, the most dispersion of the ARs and massive amounts of damage fall off. so at about 35-45m a six kin needs almost 2-3 bullets ot be worth one from a duvole. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
iOwn AE Glitchers Kinsho Swords Caldari State 70	Posted - 2014.02.09 18:35:00 - [29] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: The Six kin is garbage compared to the Boundless. Yeah good luck getting max DPS in PC where frame lag makes it impossible to constantly shoot. GG was VERY easy I slay for the Empress AE is my punching bag
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 264	Posted - 2014.02.09 18:47:00 - [30] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: We honestly won't know how weapons work till dmg mods are changed or just plain dropped. After that, we can truly judge weapons. My prediction? The CR and ScR will we be OP. You CANNOT compare the ScR to the CR...there are far less shield tankers out there and with 80% to armor and an overheat mechanic, how it it "OP" again? Scr is OP because at proficiency 3 you do 100+ damage in one uncharged shot to armor. armor got buffed unless yo haven't noticed and even with the bonus to damage verse armor the shear volumn of armor being stacked reduces TTK significantly. A militia galente suit can have 600 ehp with 3 miliia armor plates. So your saying 9% damage increase gives over 30 damage to armor in an uncharged shot? You sir need a better education.... Scr and commando enthusiast. ARC Commander "A closed mouth gathers no foot"



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