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Twelve Guage
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
60
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Posted - 2014.02.08 19:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I've been in a lot of threads in the last week that touched on the ideal of reducing equipment spam. Most of those threads were really just people wanting a nerf to the logistics class and did not provided any real solutions to helping with equipment spam. So I thought why not let's give this a shot.
Anyway the ideal I came up with was to make an active scanner (Mind you not with the ones we have now that would be over powered and completely deny anyone the ability to help their teammates.) that only destroys or disrupt equipment. Now could you imagine the absolute that horror would cause some people. Like lets say that assault who's bowstring his armor on triage nano hives. Now you can pull out a scanner form cover to take out his hivs first to then have somewhat of a real chance at taking him out. Maybe you have seen a support logistics behind a heavy with a rep tool so far up his butt you could swear he's pooping out gold turds. Now you have the option to disrupt that logi's equipment giving your teammates a chance to take out that heavy.
The active scanner equipment destroyer should act like a regular active scanner but with the ability to only pick up and destroy equipment within a certain area. The active scanner equipment destroyer or ASED would effect uplinks, nano hives, remote and proximity explosives and whatever other equipment that can be placed on the ground.
Active scanner disruptor would work somewhat like the swarm launcher as in you have to lock on to your target to disrupt their equipment. Once you have locked onto your target it will put all of your target equipment on a a cool down. They can then wait for the cool down to rest or switch their suit at a supply depot. This scanner cannot see through wall and you will need to have line of site of your target before you can disrupt thier equipment. This scanner will be over powered otherwise. The active scanner disruptor or the ASD would effect nanite injecter, repair tools, active scanner, active scanner equipment destroyers, active scanners disruptor and whatever other equipment that must be in your hands to use. I'm not actually sure how long the cool down should last on the active scanner disruptor so if anyone has any suggestions as to what they think the cooldown should be on that please post it. I don't actually run active scanner so I'm not super familiar with them.
And course to I would definitely like to see other varieties of both of these scammers out there. Like with the ASED may be something that will scan 250 feet in the air so that you can take out uplinks on top of buildings and for the ASD I would like to see one that could lock on to multiple target but with maybe a slimmer success rate. I would also like to add that if the scanners are added in that I would also like to see a new skill add to our skill tree. What the skill would do is give you a passive resistance against the ASD and lower your equipment profile dampening so that it cannot be picked by regular scanner or ASED.
Now whit that being said I would also like to point out that I am a support logistics and is no fool. I know many other support logistics are not going to support this thread because let's be honest here most of the things that I have suggested in here are mainly aimed at locking down the logistics class. However the aim of this thread is not to nurf the logistics class so much as it is to force the Logistics class to be more tactical with their equipment. Ask yourself this seriously my logistics brothers and sisters. When you're at an objective why do you throw out every piece of equipment you have? The answer is simple. Its because you can. After all there are no real counters to stopping you short of someone putting a bullet in your face or going on a suicide run with flux nades to take out a your mountain of equipment. Because there are no real counters to equipment spam we throw out all of our equipment knowing that the enemy will in most cases never be able to take it out.
I'm sure I got a few typo in here somewhere did this on my phone will fix thread in a bit.
Death Firm recruiter and sandwiches maker.
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Trey Hardin
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
65
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Posted - 2014.02.08 19:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Wow the first equipment spam thread i have found that i agree with but maybe the ASD could have a place-able variants. This could create a tactical choke point that needs to be fluxed or disabled in one way or another.
I live and die by The Logi Code
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Ku Shala
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
836
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Posted - 2014.02.08 19:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
how can it scan and take out uplinks ontop of a building if it cannot go through walls?
interesting idea but I can see many flaws. It may work better if the "disruptor" disabled equipment temporarily over a certain range like 60m @ 180-¦ for 10 seconds with a 45 second cooldown. this would give you enough time to engage and clear an area.
For what is right. For what is ours, Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Join us today!
The States Necromancer
For The State!
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Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
344
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Posted - 2014.02.08 19:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
what about a jammer u can throw down and it disrupts the scan within a certain radius?
make it work within a 50m radius unless its destroyed. let it also disrupt the tier below it so 4 example u need a protolevel jammer to disrupt the advanced scanner. |
Texs Red
DUST University Ivy League
170
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Posted - 2014.02.08 19:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
+1 I like the idea of an equipment designed to take out other pieces of equipment. However the equipment spam could easily be solved by making the uplink/nanohive limit tied to the person instead of the specific equipment. |
Trey Hardin
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
66
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Posted - 2014.02.08 19:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:+1 I like the idea of an equipment designed to take out other pieces of equipment. However the equipment spam could easily be solved by making the uplink/nanohive limit tied to the person instead of the specific equipment. that would work but this idea is cool.
I live and die by The Logi Code
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Twelve Guage
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
61
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Posted - 2014.02.08 19:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Trey Hardin wrote:Wow the first equipment spam thread i have found that i agree with but maybe the ASD could have a place-able variants. This could create a tactical choke point that needs to be fluxed or disabled in one way or another. FYI i am also a support logi If it can be placed like a RE then I could see that making up links and stealth attacks more useful.
Death Firm recruiter and sandwiches maker.
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Trey Hardin
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
66
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Posted - 2014.02.08 19:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ku Shala wrote:how can it scan and take out uplinks ontop of a building if it cannot go through walls?
interesting idea but I can see many flaws. It may work better if the "disruptor" disabled equipment temporarily over a certain range like 60m @ 180-¦ for 10 seconds with a 45 second cooldown. this would give you enough time to engage and clear an area. it was the disruptor that targets a person and couldnt go through walls but the destroyer could
I live and die by The Logi Code
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Trey Hardin
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
66
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Posted - 2014.02.08 19:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Twelve Guage wrote:Trey Hardin wrote:Wow the first equipment spam thread i have found that i agree with but maybe the ASD could have a place-able variants. This could create a tactical choke point that needs to be fluxed or disabled in one way or another. FYI i am also a support logi If it can be placed like a RE then I could see that making up links and stealth attacks more useful. thats my point to put more tactics in the game and less who has the better gun
I live and die by The Logi Code
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Twelve Guage
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
61
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Posted - 2014.02.08 19:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ku Shala wrote:how can it scan and take out uplinks ontop of a building if it cannot go through walls?
interesting idea but I can see many flaws. It may work better if the "disruptor" disabled equipment temporarily over a certain range like 60m @ 180-¦ for 10 seconds with a 45 second cooldown. this would give you enough time to engage and clear an area.
The ASED can see through walls it just can't pick up people. It disables equipment that can be placed on the ground The ASD disables hand held equipment.
Death Firm recruiter and sandwiches maker.
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Twelve Guage
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
62
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Posted - 2014.02.08 20:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:+1 I like the idea of an equipment designed to take out other pieces of equipment. However the equipment spam could easily be solved by making the uplink/nanohive limit tied to the person instead of the specific equipment.
The real problem with this ideal is that I can still spam this stuff and just hide afterwards or switch into a suit that going to help them live as long as possible. Also if the hive or uplink is now tie to how long I live does that mean fully that my equipment is really tied to me (by fully tie to me I mean if I don't die my equipment doesn't die to case I didn't) I'm going to be honest here it got to be worth it to me if we're trading of stat's. Another thing I want to ask is what happens to the unlink if I go down not die just down. Will it just disappear. Will it reappear refreshed if I get picked up? What happens?
Death Firm recruiter and sandwiches maker.
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Twelve Guage
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
62
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Posted - 2014.02.08 20:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Trey Hardin wrote:Twelve Guage wrote:Trey Hardin wrote:Wow the first equipment spam thread i have found that i agree with but maybe the ASD could have a place-able variants. This could create a tactical choke point that needs to be fluxed or disabled in one way or another. FYI i am also a support logi If it can be placed like a RE then I could see that making up links and stealth attacks more useful. thats my point to put more tactics in the game and less who has the better gun Yep liking this right here.
Death Firm recruiter and sandwiches maker.
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Texs Red
DUST University Ivy League
170
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Posted - 2014.02.08 21:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Twelve Guage wrote:Texs Red wrote:+1 I like the idea of an equipment designed to take out other pieces of equipment. However the equipment spam could easily be solved by making the uplink/nanohive limit tied to the person instead of the specific equipment. The real problem with this ideal is that I can still spam this stuff and just hide afterwards or switch into a suit that going to help them live as long as possible. Also if the hive or uplink is now tie to how long I live does that mean fully that my equipment is really tied to me (by fully tie to me I mean if I don't die my equipment doesn't die to case I didn't) I'm going to be honest here it got to be worth it to me if we're trading of stat's. Another thing I want to ask is what happens to the unlink if I go down not die just down. Will it just disappear. Will it reappear refreshed if I get picked up? What happens?
What I am saying is that it is based on you rather than your equipment. So if I have a regular uplink, a hacked uplink, and a R-9 uplink then the maximum I can put down is two R-9s. Since the maximum allowed from a regular or hacked uplink is 1 then you can only have 1 uplink down at a time, however if you put down a regular and an R-9 they will stay because the R-9 can coexist with 1 other uplink or another R-9.
By that method the maximum amount of uplinks possible per person is 3 instead of the current 14, the same would apply to nanohives. |
Twelve Guage
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
62
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Posted - 2014.02.08 23:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:
What I am saying is that it is based on you rather than your equipment. So if I have a regular uplink, a hacked uplink, and a R-9 uplink then the maximum I can put down is two R-9s. Since the maximum allowed from a regular or hacked uplink is 1 then you can only have 1 uplink down at a time, however if you put down a regular and an R-9 they will stay because the R-9 can coexist with 1 other uplink or another R-9.
By that method the maximum amount of uplinks possible per person is 3 instead of the current 14, the same would apply to nanohives.
Could you imagine how angry a lot of vehicle users would be if this same logic was applied to them. l'm not just talking about people that call in just tanks or just drop ships I'm talking about every vehicle user out. Now lets lump all vehicles together because this is what you have done with all variants of uplinks. I'm using vehicle because they pretty much do the same thing we do with our equipment only with their vehicles and yet I don't think I've ever seen anything about people restricting the amount vehicles a person can call in per a match.
Death Firm recruiter and sandwiches maker.
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ladwar
Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising
1990
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Posted - 2014.02.08 23:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
his idea sound like it would just mean even more equipment spam to ensure yours works.
Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet.
I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth
doing reviews in free time, want 1?
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Twelve Guage
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
62
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Posted - 2014.02.09 00:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
ladwar wrote:his idea sound like it would just mean even more equipment spam to ensure yours works. Could you maybe going to a little bit more details about how this would make more equipment spam?
Death Firm recruiter and sandwiches maker.
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
2270
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Posted - 2014.02.09 00:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Twelve Guage wrote:ladwar wrote:his idea sound like it would just mean even more equipment spam to ensure yours works. Could you maybe going to a little bit more details about how this would make more equipment spam? then I'd place these ASED's and MY equipment to screw you from placing your equipment...
Listen
I'll change the song every week
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Twelve Guage
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
64
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Posted - 2014.02.09 00:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Twelve Guage wrote:ladwar wrote:his idea sound like it would just mean even more equipment spam to ensure yours works. Could you maybe going to a little bit more details about how this would make more equipment spam? then I'd place these ASED's and MY equipment to screw you from placing your equipment... First I'm going to have to correct you because it doesn't actually stopped me from placing my equipement. All the ASED does is give you the ability to destroy my equipment form a distance.
Death Firm recruiter and sandwiches maker.
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Twelve Guage
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
73
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Posted - 2014.02.12 06:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bump wanting to hear more people thoughts on this.
Death Firm recruiter and sandwiches maker.
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Twelve Guage
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
73
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Posted - 2014.02.12 16:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bump
Death Firm recruiter and sandwiches maker.
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
1953
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Posted - 2014.02.12 17:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
The scanner mechanic sounds a bit OP. A better idea (imo) has been suggested before several times. Sadly, with no dev tags.
It was mentioned briefly above. Basically, it's an equipment jammer. Either specific to uplinks (but not nanohives) or not. Basically you place it down and in a certain radius if any equipment gets deployed, it 'pops' and does not get active.
Now, this also has high abuse potential, but as a static, one-time deploy piece of equipment (as opposed to a mobile disintegrator ray like in the OP) it would be a little easier to control. For example:
1) Only 1 can be carried at STD/ADV, 2 at proto. So you can't litter an entire city with them and lock it down.
2) There is an absolute and team radius. Meaning: While it jams enemy equipment for say, whatever, 25m at STD, 50 at proto or something (pick your own random number), it also jams ALL equipment from either team (including other jammers) in a smaller radius, maybe 10m. This way you also can't blanket a large area because you won't be able to place any of your own equipment down either.
3) Big fitting cost so you either have to be a logi or totally gimp your suit to carry them, and it would be unrealistic to carry 2 kinds on the same suit.
Some other things might need to happen, like a timer on it, or some kind of warning that a jammer is active in the area when you select equipment from the wheel or whatever, but the limits above would probably keep it in line.
Note: I am a support logi and known mass user of equipment. Hell, I wrote the guide to using drop uplinks. I like this idea because it adds another strategic layer and gives me another new toy to play with.
Honestly I dont think that many (good) support logi's would be dead-set against this kind of thing. Most of us actually hate equipment "spam" because it gives us a bad name, litters the map with useless crap, and takes away WP from us (because it's invariably some non-logi trying to mindlessly farm WP with no thought to tactics).
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Forum Warrior lv.1
Amarr victor!
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Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day
519
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Posted - 2014.02.12 17:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:The scanner mechanic sounds a bit OP. A better idea (imo) has been suggested before several times. Sadly, with no dev tags. It was mentioned briefly above. Basically, it's an equipment jammer. Either specific to uplinks (but not nanohives) or not. Basically you place it down and in a certain radius if any equipment gets deployed, it 'pops' and does not get active. Now, this also has high abuse potential, but as a static, one-time deploy piece of equipment (as opposed to a mobile disintegrator ray like in the OP) it would be a little easier to control. For example: 1) Only 1 can be carried at STD/ADV, 2 at proto. So you can't litter an entire city with them and lock it down. 2) There is an absolute and team radius. Meaning: While it jams enemy equipment for say, whatever, 25m at STD, 50 at proto or something (pick your own random number), it also jams ALL equipment (including other jammers) in a smaller radius, maybe 10m. This way you also can't blanket a large area because you won't be able to place any of your own equipment down either. 3) Big fitting cost so you either have to be a logi or totally gimp your suit to carry them, and it would be unrealistic to carry 2 kinds on the same suit. Some other things might need to happen, like a timer on it, or some kind of warning that a jammer is active in the area when you select equipment from the wheel or whatever, but the things above would probably keep it in line. Note: I am a support logi and known mass user of equipment. Hell, I wrote the guide to using drop uplinks. I like this idea because it adds another strategic layer and gives me another new toy to play with. Honestly I dont think that many ( good) support logi's would be dead-set against this kind of thing. Most of us actually hate equipment "spam" because it gives us a bad name, litters the map with useless crap, and takes away WP from us (because it's invariably some non-logi trying to mindlessly farm WP with no thought to tactics).
This one. I like this idea. Being able to carry such a tool around in scanner form seems ripe for abuse, but deployable seems much more reasonable. +1
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Krom Ganesh
Nos Nothi
1410
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Posted - 2014.02.12 17:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:2) There is an absolute and team radius. Meaning: While it jams enemy equipment for say, whatever, 25m at STD, 50 at proto or something (pick your own random number), it also jams ALL equipment from either team (including other jammers) in a smaller radius, maybe 10m. This way you also can't blanket a large area because you won't be able to place any of your own equipment down either.
I like this. However, I feel it should jam both team's equipment over the jammer's full range so you have to be careful when you try to use it. E.G. wait until a large portion of your team has gathered before you breach. This would decrease the viability of a straight up zerg rush while the enemy is jammed.
Also, If it only blocked the enemy's equipment after a short distance then they could easily be used to lock down objectives with supply depots. I.E. Place one just far enough away from your own spawn hub but still within your defendable area, then replace as necessary using the supply depot.
Also, would it jam CRUs and mCRUs? |
SteelheadPep
SAM-MIK
35
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Posted - 2014.02.12 20:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Rep tools already have a cool down timer for points, many support logis will still rep to help their team.You are insinuating that logis spam equipment, when other suits can also carry the same. As a support logi I do place uplinks in areas that are beneficial to my team but I do not spam my equipment. The problem with equip. spam can be resolved by allowing a merc to only place a certain number of any one type of equip. down. If they try to put more or different variants of that type then the last one they put down will deactivate. Nice and simple, if you move to another location and have a better location then the last equip. place would deactivate and the new equip would be the latest location. Why would a support logi make suggestions that will further hamstring logis from doing their job? The witch hunt is over you have succeeded in making the support logi disappear. Do you want to pick our bones clean to! |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
1956
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Posted - 2014.02.12 21:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:2) There is an absolute and team radius. Meaning: While it jams enemy equipment for say, whatever, 25m at STD, 50 at proto or something (pick your own random number), it also jams ALL equipment from either team (including other jammers) in a smaller radius, maybe 10m. This way you also can't blanket a large area because you won't be able to place any of your own equipment down either. I like this. However, I feel it should jam both team's equipment over the jammer's full range so you have to be careful when you try to use it. E.G. wait until a large portion of your team has gathered before you breach. This would decrease the viability of a straight up zerg rush while the enemy is jammed. Also, If it only blocked the enemy's equipment after a short distance then they could easily be used to lock down objectives with supply depots. I.E. Place one just far enough away from your own spawn hub but still within your defendable area, then replace as necessary using the supply depot. Also, would it jam CRUs and mCRUs?
Maybe mCRU's but not CRU's, those are hackable hard points so that wouldn't make much sense. I guess you could make them jam all equipment, that might make them underutilized but maybe not.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Forum Warrior lv.1
Amarr victor!
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