Just came out of a battle where the opposing team had 3 to 4 tanks stomping around with turbo boosters not giving my team a fair chance at a match. There definately needs 2 b limits on the number of tanks allowed at any given moment per team. I have spent alot of time and real money in this game, and I am starting to feel cheated when I cant enjoy a decent fair match.

What was the gap of time between those tank kills? Back to back matches? The same match? A day? 3 days? A week? A few isolated situations that don't happen multiple times a day doesn't invalidate an argument. We very rarely come up against coordinated AV, so that invalidates your argument.

In pub matches you cant find 2 AV players to work together

Limit suits then

2 assault/2 logi/ 2 heavy
5 scouts/5 commandos

I saw Swarms just the other night and so I decided to pull out my own. I didn't know the bluedot who had them and I got myself a Madrugar kill with an un-modded CBR-7.

Last night, I killed a gunnlogi with some Wiyrkomi AV grenades, with help from friendly anonymous bluedot swarms.

^^This invalidates the beginning of your argument.

Secondly, I would appreciate if you ceased fearmongering regarding the pilot suit. You seem to have based your entire argument on a dropsuit that is as of yet non-existent in game. When it is in game, we can cross that bridge, not before.

What follows is all speculation, though so is nearly 100% of your argument against Crew Service.

Lastly, you also seem to be under the impression that the different pilot suits would have effects on the same HAVs, when we get them, IDK that that is how it will work. Look at how CCP is attempting to give racial fidelity to dropsuits and weapons, do you really think that they wouldn't do the same with dropsuits and vehicles?

Beyond that, you seem to also be under the impression that all of the dropsuits in the HAV would stack bonuses, I would imagine that, if CCP included Crew Service, they would tie the pilot suit (if it turns out to be more than vaporware) bonuses to seats (i.e. driver would only get bonuses if the suit was bonused for driving type things, gunners would only get bonuses if the suit was bonused for gunner type things). I seriously doubt that they would give the pilot suits blanket stacking bonuses to the vehicle. TBH, I doubt that more than one pilot per HAV would have any point (likely only applying if the pilot is the driver of the HAV).

Can you just admit that you're against Crew Service since you don't want to have to share your dropsuit security blanket with 3 others?

I remember back in the beta when 1 tank could stomp everyone in a match with ease. I don't they're all too bad right now. They just need to find the thin line that makes them useful yet destructible.

I, too, have spent a lot of time and money on this game, and I'll be damned if I have to limit my tanking playstyle to accommodate your infantry playstyle.

hey you wont have to when they nerf you to the ground in 1.8. Tanks are ruining this game. I they made a mode of game with no tanks in it, everybody would play that and tanks wouldnt exist.

I know that you have legit statements but the state of tanks IS ruining the game right now

Wasnt co-ordinated, just blind dumb luck with no mics and you happened to pull out swarms at the right time and only in 2 games? 1 on each day? thats pathetic

In my average games of using a tank half the AV i come up against are not co-ordinated, they fire a round at me then change target and hit spkr or someone else

You really think you can get 4 AV players to work together with no mics?

Pilot suit will arrive, pilot suit to be used in a vehicle, is a gunner in a vehicle? yes, does the pilot suit work in a vehicle? yes, maybe its just for pilots but maybe its not, a vehicle suit for vehicle players and that includes gunners

As for crew service is a hack idea, i mean you want 3 other players to help operate something that they have 0 SP in and i cant even lock the doors, its like getting 4 players to operate your logi suit, 2 in the legs and 1 for the gun problem is if the legs dont work together which they wont because no locks or mic and you end up on your arse

But il humor you since you are infantry and have no idea on vehicles whatsoever I'll thank you to not ad hom me, it makes you look desperate. Besides, you have no clue what I have or haven't done on this char or alts

I mean do all 4 players have to skill up vehicles? IMHO, anyone that wants to use anything Vehicle related should be required to have the skills in it. Want to pilot an HAV, train for it. Want to use a Small Blaster Turret, train for it. etcetcetc
If all 4 skill up do our skills stack? If it were up to me, no, you would only apply your own personal skills to the facet you were controlling (see above)
Is it just the pilot? Is what just the pilot?
Will i ever get to lock my vehicle to keep idiots out? I still do not understand why vehicles do not have hatch locks
Who pays for it? Whoever chooses to?
Who operates what? Decide amongst yourselves?
etcetcetc

The general idea is pretty stupid and complicated but il still humor the idea and il give you a current list of what me a pilot would want written in stone if this idea ever did become reality and CCP with bad ideas do happen quite a bit but against a solid 4 man HAV crew infantry would be shitting blood Can you give me one, solid, coherent unbiased explanation of how it is "pretty stupid"? Until then, I'll translate that as you attempting to smear the idea.

1. This isnt enforced on all tanks and vehicles - If this is to exist which really it shouldnt then it needs to be a completely new speciality vehicle which is optional if you want to train it, that means that it will also have skills added to it which will have 1 skill for the driver and a secondary skill for the gunner Again, it is merely your opinion that it shouldn't. I would imagine that this would apply to ADS, DS and HAVs (MAVs too if/when we get them), LAVs or other "personal vehicles" would remain untouched.
2. Vehicle locks - I want to lock my vehicle for my squad only, this means its only for my squad I've already stated that I agree with this idea.
3. Better PG/CPU/HP and slot layout - If this is taking at least 2 players to operate it then it needs an increase in base stats and slots since its a highly specalised vehicle, im not paying more to have a gimped tank which will be the same as a normal basic tank but requires more ppl to operate it No, all the Crew Serviced vehicles should be on par with current standards.
4. Driver keeps 3rd person camera - This is to ensure the safety of the vehicle, he is the driver for a reason, his sole purpose is to drive, he has no gun he needs no gun for he is the driver Vehicles in Eve are 3rd person, ok
5. No gun for the driver, not even a ****** small turret - Driver doesnt need it and will hinder the driver in operating the vehicle Fine
6. 2players operate, minimum 2players to destroy it - TBH you can barely find 2ppl to work together now to kill a tank so needing 2+ is going to impossible for most players but infantry wants this vehicle more than vehicle pilots I would imagine that it would be 2-4 to operate, average of 3 to destroy, dependant on comparative level of AV v V (PRO AV should require less to kill lesser V, PRO V should require more to be killed by lesser AV)
7. The driver operates the majority of the mods - Hardeners/speed mods/boosters etc Fine
8. Gunner operates DMG mods - He needs the gun so he needs the mods Fine
9. Driver has the ability to kick out all gunners from his vehicle - if the gunner jumps out to hack a point and a bluedot jumps in the driver can boot him out Unneeded with hatch locks.
10. More skills added in the skill tree - Mainly for the driver, increase in turning speed and speed itself etc Fine

Keep being picky but you know im right, its rare you find AV players work together until its an act of desperation and the entire team eventually pulls out AV which tends to be militia, infantry are complaining now about vehicles, finding 4 with proto AV will be impossible unless you group up

I doubt very much you tank

So you want all 4 players to skill up for the vehicle then or each part of it, problem is it is next to impossible to do, the pilot has to skill up everything just to fit it but what happens if they dont? how does the gunner help put on a turret which the driver hasnt skilled into? he cant help, if the pilot cannot use it he cannot fit it, you end up with the invalid fit and it cant be called in - So that falls apart

Im pilot, my vehicle has turrets on it, i have ammo cap which raises the amount of ammo i can hold, gunner also has same skill so why dont they stack? same for all other mods and skills

Who ever chooses to - Thats not an answer, the ISK will only ever come out of 1 persons pocket consistantly and i really dont see bluedots giving out donations

Decide amongst yourselfs - Again not an answer, you cannot divide up the mods to various people because there is no way a gunner would have any of the driving mods, plus im not trusting bluedots with anything

4man HAV is a stupid idea because it comes from infantry, its next to impossible to implement unless you completely change how vehicles are operated and are able to include the different skills of the crew so someone could actually fit it without it being invalid, not too mention 16v16 current mods and infantry already cry about ppl in vehicles now and not enough ppl to shoot at let alone actually having to use teamwork to take out a vehicle which they currently cant do now and they only need 2 good competant players

1. If its going to take 4ppl to use a basic vehicle its not going to take off, now if this 4man HAV was made into a specalized vehicle then only the hardcore may have a crack at it but it seems you want it for Dropships which is very lolworthy because it means the flying APC is no longer an APC when half of the slots are taken up for just operating it and same for the MAVs while the ADS was made so the pilot had a gun in the 1st place if he wants someone else to shoot it they would just use the standard dropship they get and save themselves some SP and ISK, you are just asking to nerf all vehicles

3. I highly specalized vehicle which requires 4 to operate and move the thing will not have the same stats of a basic vehicle, plus its only 16v16 so if it takes a quater of a team to move it it will take at least a quater of the enemy team to kill it and just asking for it shows you want a blanket nerf to all vehicles

6. 4 to operate 4 to kill it minimum also with proto AV - If i have a 4 man vehicle with 4 pilot suits all proto mods/suits and turrets you can be damn sure it will take the equivelent which would be 4 proto suits/mods/AV weapons to kill it, kicker is you can barely find that in pub matches and only in PC will it be seen but with 16v16 and quarter of each team to use the vehicle/kill it i see infantry crying harder than ever

9. Needed anyway, if you think im letting bluedots into my multimillion ISK HAV which requires 4 competant players to move it
think again

With your responses you just want to nerf vehicles and yea you cant use em as it is, its like you want COD in space tbh