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Eddie Rio
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
84
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Posted - 2014.02.05 13:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
yes of course the community matters, they should have a say in the development of the product they play with...
but, from a marketing point of view and for the sake of growth, shouldn't we also be asking the people who don't play this game we love, why they don't play....
the majority of people who know about this games existence are eve players, so I asked a load of them and the result was obvious,,, 'its on PS3'. most eve players still have a sour taste in there mouth from funding a game on a console they don't own. but if this game was to release on PC that sour taste would soon wash away as hundreds and thousands of eve players would try this free game out, and many more who dont play eve...
is it worth bringing this argument back to ccp, I ask in here as cpm members and those of you who want to be cpm members could bring this idea forward or at least keep raising to ccp over and over again till it happens lol...
I dunno guys, i never speak on the forums if but to post a vid, but i just feel that ps3 isnt the way forward and im fed up with no real road map or direction for this game... or at least that they are willing to tell us.....
if there is something obv im missing as to why it still is, and will continue to be on ps3 please let me know...
I personally would just love to at least know for certain where they plan to take this game hardware wise..
peace n love
Ed
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Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1125
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Posted - 2014.02.05 14:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
To my knowledge, there has yet to be a successful cross-platform game that combines PC and Console users on the same battlefield. While I do not have access to the internal workings of CCP, this might be the big cause for concern. By being both on console (Dust) and PC (EVE), New Eden appeals to two separate markets for CCP and there is some exclusivity among the members of those markets. The game in its current state would seem extremely crude on a PC.
Even CPM members would not be able to disclose any reason to the public unless authorized to do so by CCP due to the NDA. The CPM is an advisory board to give the perspective of the current players to CCP. It is CCPs marketing department that is responsible for getting new players involved in the game and the CPM becomes their voice once they join.
Im sure that other candidates will chime in on their own time.
Canari Elphus for CPM1
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SILENTSAM 69
SONS of LEGION
RISE of LEGION
642
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
A big problem with PC gaming is modding and cheating. It is far easier to mod and cheat on your own machine than it is on a console.
Keyboard and mouse themselves have never been the big divider as some think. It is mouse and keyboard with a dpi switch and a keyboard with macro's that cause things to go bad. |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1336
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Canari, while the CPM cannot violate the NDA, I do want to put out there one of my primary goals is to convince CCP that they need to be more transparent with the community about their long-term plans.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
942
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Put simply, you'd HAVE to put console players and PC players on different servers. Sony are doing so with Planetside 2 because they couldn't get the two control systems balanced. The moment this happens, One Universe/One war goes for a burton.
And while some might say that why can't the console players buy a mouse and keyboard (which most PC players would have no problem with) the vast majority of consoles are under someone's TV in the front room. Making them buy a M&KB isn't going to engender your game to them.
And I have to say as a 5 year player of Eve who subscribes with real money, that I don't agree with the 'We funded it' argument what so ever. Once that money leaves my account and becomes CCP's, any claim I might think I have over how CCP choose to spent it would be considered as ludicrous by an outside observer. How is a company expected to grow if all it does is one thing? It's like saying Sony arn't allowed to spent profits from their film and music division on PS4 development if they wanted.
And as SilentSam has already mentioned, the number of hacks and bots availble to PC players is just going to make more work for CCP. There are exploits on consoles, but they're harder to pull off and once fixed, tend to stay fixed.
And the corporate shift for CCP is that their Main IP isn't Eve Online anymore, it's New Eden itself. And they want to open that world to as many formats as possible. It why we've got the comics coming up, the tv series in development. All of it is to raise awareness of New Eden and the diverse ways you can enter it.
Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot
CEO of DUST University
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Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1126
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Posted - 2014.02.05 17:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Canari, while the CPM cannot violate the NDA, I do want to put out there one of my primary goals is to convince CCP that they need to be more transparent with the community about their long-term plans.
I do agree that some insight is needed. However, a mission statement is better than exposing long term plans because those plans are always changing to meet with the times. They can let us know where they would like to lead but they get massive backlash from the community when they try to be specific.
Canari Elphus for CPM1
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1341
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Posted - 2014.02.05 18:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kevall, I disagree. Since DUST already operates KB/M and DS3 on the same servers now, adding PC would not require separate servers. And of course, as I'm sure you understand, CCP cannot possibly deliver on the New Eden experience with different servers. While pub matches can be roughly segregated, FacWar on PC cannot.
Regarding buying separate controls, I agree in pubs that it's unreasonable. However, in the serious top end gameplay, anyone at the top is going to buy the best hardware for the job, if that's a third party controller or a keyboard. Think about the professional gamers playing LoL professionally. Are they using a $10 headset and the mouse that came in the box with their Acer PC? No.
The "we funded it" argument is dumb. I think we can all agree with that. CCP definitely has to expand outward, and using one product to finance another is known as "business".
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1126
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Posted - 2014.02.05 19:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Kevall, I disagree. Since DUST already operates KB/M and DS3 on the same servers now, adding PC would not require separate servers. And of course, as I'm sure you understand, CCP cannot possibly deliver on the New Eden experience with different servers. While pub matches can be roughly segregated, FacWar on PC cannot.
Regarding buying separate controls, I agree in pubs that it's unreasonable. However, in the serious top end gameplay, anyone at the top is going to buy the best hardware for the job, if that's a third party controller or a keyboard. Think about the professional gamers playing LoL professionally. Are they using a $10 headset and the mouse that came in the box with their Acer PC? No.
The "we funded it" argument is dumb. I think we can all agree with that. CCP definitely has to expand outward, and using one product to finance another is known as "business".
Soraya,
Yes, but the PC has the ability to create macros with keyboard and mouse that the PS3 cannot. There would need to be massive safeguards in place to ensure that there is a level playing field between console and PC users. Not only would this take time to introduce but it would also require a massive amount of resources from CCP. Resources that could be used to further develop Dust on the PS3. It would be a great accomplishment if they were able to pull it off but it would mean the death of the game were they to fail.
Canari Elphus for CPM1
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1341
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Posted - 2014.02.05 19:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Oh, most definitely. I don't think a PC port should even be on the table at this time. But at any time it eventually became on, which someday may indeed be possible or even likely, it would operate on the same servers.
I would far rather their next platform be the PS4.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
943
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Posted - 2014.02.05 20:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Kevall, I disagree. Since DUST already operates KB/M and DS3 on the same servers now, adding PC would not require separate servers. And of course, as I'm sure you understand, CCP cannot possibly deliver on the New Eden experience with different servers. While pub matches can be roughly segregated, FacWar on PC cannot.
Regarding buying separate controls, I agree in pubs that it's unreasonable. However, in the serious top end gameplay, anyone at the top is going to buy the best hardware for the job, if that's a third party controller or a keyboard. Think about the professional gamers playing LoL professionally. Are they using a $10 headset and the mouse that came in the box with their Acer PC? No.
The "we funded it" argument is dumb. I think we can all agree with that. CCP definitely has to expand outward, and using one product to finance another is known as "business".
Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot
CEO of DUST University
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
944
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Posted - 2014.02.05 20:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Kevall, I disagree. Since DUST already operates KB/M and DS3 on the same servers now, adding PC would not require separate servers. And of course, as I'm sure you understand, CCP cannot possibly deliver on the New Eden experience with different servers. While pub matches can be roughly segregated, FacWar on PC cannot.
Regarding buying separate controls, I agree in pubs that it's unreasonable. However, in the serious top end gameplay, anyone at the top is going to buy the best hardware for the job, if that's a third party controller or a keyboard. Think about the professional gamers playing LoL professionally. Are they using a $10 headset and the mouse that came in the box with their Acer PC? No.
The "we funded it" argument is dumb. I think we can all agree with that. CCP definitely has to expand outward, and using one product to finance another is known as "business".
I'm sorry Soraya, but buying any extra hardware just to play at the 'top level' while common in PC gaming is simply not the case in console gaming. It just isn't. And its a common phrase in console gaming that third party controllers are rarely, if ever, better than the original that came in the box with the console. These players will want to compete at the highest level with the controllers they're used to and comfortable using for all their other games.
If CCP tell these players, 'Hey, there's this really good game that's free to play, but you have to cough up the same price as you paid for your console, on a gaming standard m&kb that you'll never use on any other game', they'll rightly tell them to get lost. It's not just unreasonable for pub matches, its unreasonable full stop.
I would like to know what percentage of players actually use the m&kb in the game, if it's less than the 10 to 15% I think it is, then I'm sorry, CCP's development priority for controller balancing is clear and m&kb should be secondary to the DS3. Once that is as good as CCP can possibly get it, they can return to getting the M&kb as good as it can be but without becoming superior to the DS3.
If your average user feel like they're getting stomped in in free game because someone has better equipment, they won't buy the equipment, they'll just go to another free game that uses the controller in the box, ie Planetside 2 on the PS4.
If the correct decision had been made by CCP two years ago when they went console, to stick with a 'what comes in the box' mentality, then we wouldn't need the auto aim in the first place.
Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot
CEO of DUST University
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Zyrus Amalomyn
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
287
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Posted - 2014.02.06 09:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:A big problem with PC gaming is modding and cheating. It is far easier to mod and cheat on your own machine than it is on a console.
Keyboard and mouse themselves have never been the big divider as some think. It is mouse and keyboard with a dpi switch and a keyboard with macro's that cause things to go bad.
Yeah, that's why we get all the whining about keyboard/mouse users dominating, because 'it's not a big divide'.
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Eddie Rio
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
84
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Posted - 2014.02.06 09:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
The argument for macro's or cheating of any sorts is invalid to me, if someone wanted to they could cheat for an advantage on PS3 as well as PC, its up to developers to try and cut this down to a minimum. CCP already run a PC MMO that is filled with macro players cheating at the game, they are used to this and deal with it as best they can...
matchmaking for pc and PS3 might have to be separated somehow, but my main argument here, and the point im trying to stress is why the exclusivity, why not open the doors and try and make it bigger and available to all your loyal EvE fans and everyone with a PC....
if its a case of software and developing issues, you give that to a team of devs to work out. If the executive producer or a dev was to at least announce the next 2 years was going to be on PS3 the we plan to move to X or Y i would be happy, at least I have an answer...
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Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
903
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Posted - 2014.02.06 10:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Eddie Rio wrote:The argument for macro's or cheating of any sorts is invalid to me, if someone wanted to they could cheat for an advantage on PS3 as well as PC, its up to developers to try and cut this down to a minimum. CCP already run a PC MMO that is filled with macro players cheating at the game, they are used to this and deal with it as best they can...
matchmaking for pc and PS3 might have to be separated somehow, but my main argument here, and the point im trying to stress is why the exclusivity, why not open the doors and try and make it bigger and available to all your loyal EvE fans and everyone with a PC....
if its a case of software and developing issues, you give that to a team of devs to work out. If the executive producer or a dev was to at least announce the next 2 years was going to be on PS3 the we plan to move to X or Y i would be happy, at least I have an answer...
I'm pretty sure one of the main points behind dust was to get it out to a new demographic, not the current eve players. (Well... that and making use of the money they have tied up in china [this is only speculation - it would also mean eve players outside of china didn't help pay for jack squat].
Join the Channel - CPM1 Candidates - Get to know who's running.
Delt for CPM1
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John McLeish
Aussie Galactic Special Force
2
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Posted - 2014.02.06 10:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm predominantly a console gamer and DUST on PS3 is fantastic for me because my PC sucks.
CCP wanting to expand beyond PC gaming is unsurprising. There is a whole market of people like me with wallets full of money that don't really play PC games because of the cost involved in maintaining a high end (or even mid range) gaming machine. Porting the game to the PC or even the Xbox while not impossible would be a poor decision given the current state of the game. CCP should get it working first before tackling issues like porting to a whole different software and hardware infrastructure.
As far as targeting EVE players to play DUST, while a good idea in theory (You like EVE? Play our other game!) marketing a console game to PC players rarely works (I say rarely because I can't think of an example of when it did work but I don't deny that it has worked, once, somewhere sometime). Not to mention marketing an FPS to MMO players is like selling oranges to apple eaters. As a non EVE player I started playing because for a while I was hearing about it and suddenly it disappeared and I wanted to know what happened to the game for the Developers to suddenly stop talking about it to the media. I keep playing because the game has piqued my interest in the EVE universe and the forums are pretty cool. I think if you want more players to stay in the game (yes there are a ton of game play issues but beyond that) I think a good place to start is showing people the EVE universe. Also you could go the other way and not mention EVE online at all and let players discover it on their own, just market it as a sci-fi first person shooter.
I like the idea that players have the option to use a mouse and keyboard if they wish or can stick with the controller. I prefer to use a controller because all the buttons are close to each other and it's comfortable in my hands. Make all the arguments you like for the superiority of a mouse and keyboard and I'll continue to use a controller. It won't get you anywhere and neither will arguing the reverse. Having the option of both is a good idea, weather it worked or not I'll leave for others to decide. |
Eddie Rio
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
84
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Eddie Rio wrote:The argument for macro's or cheating of any sorts is invalid to me, if someone wanted to they could cheat for an advantage on PS3 as well as PC, its up to developers to try and cut this down to a minimum. CCP already run a PC MMO that is filled with macro players cheating at the game, they are used to this and deal with it as best they can...
matchmaking for pc and PS3 might have to be separated somehow, but my main argument here, and the point im trying to stress is why the exclusivity, why not open the doors and try and make it bigger and available to all your loyal EvE fans and everyone with a PC....
if its a case of software and developing issues, you give that to a team of devs to work out. If the executive producer or a dev was to at least announce the next 2 years was going to be on PS3 the we plan to move to X or Y i would be happy, at least I have an answer...
I'm pretty sure one of the main points behind dust was to get it out to a new demographic, not the current eve players. (Well... that and making use of the money they have tied up in china [this is only speculation - it would also mean eve players outside of china didn't help pay for jack squat].
this game should be on xbox one, ps4 and pc.... i was gunna buy a ps4 recently, but what if they then decided to go with xbox one, id be bummed... just be nice to know at this stage...
I know im being silly and getting in a huff about it, but i like this game and i try to follow its progression, like i do with other games i like... dust 514 info is like pulling blood from a stone at the moment, i don't understand why its all so secretive. |
Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1131
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Posted - 2014.02.06 15:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Eddie Rio wrote:Mossellia Delt wrote:Eddie Rio wrote:The argument for macro's or cheating of any sorts is invalid to me, if someone wanted to they could cheat for an advantage on PS3 as well as PC, its up to developers to try and cut this down to a minimum. CCP already run a PC MMO that is filled with macro players cheating at the game, they are used to this and deal with it as best they can...
matchmaking for pc and PS3 might have to be separated somehow, but my main argument here, and the point im trying to stress is why the exclusivity, why not open the doors and try and make it bigger and available to all your loyal EvE fans and everyone with a PC....
if its a case of software and developing issues, you give that to a team of devs to work out. If the executive producer or a dev was to at least announce the next 2 years was going to be on PS3 the we plan to move to X or Y i would be happy, at least I have an answer...
I'm pretty sure one of the main points behind dust was to get it out to a new demographic, not the current eve players. (Well... that and making use of the money they have tied up in china [this is only speculation - it would also mean eve players outside of china didn't help pay for jack squat]. this game should be on xbox one, ps4 and pc.... i was gunna buy a ps4 recently, but what if they then decided to go with xbox one, id be bummed... just be nice to know at this stage... I know im being silly and getting in a huff about it, but i like this game and i try to follow its progression, like i do with other games i like... dust 514 info is like pulling blood from a stone at the moment, i don't understand why its all so secretive.
Some of it has to do with CCPs competition from other gaming companies. Them releasing their plans too early would let their competition know and plan for it. CCP might not have the clout of an EA or Square but they are still competition.
Canari Elphus for CPM1
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2422
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Posted - 2014.02.06 15:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
John McLeish wrote:Also you could go the other way and not mention EVE online at all and let players discover it on their own, just market it as a sci-fi first person shooter.
I love seeing the reaction of players who know nothing about EVE when they first discover that DUST is connected to a Space based MMO played on a Computer.
It often starts off with them asking GÇ£hay, why is your portrait different?GÇ¥ And then I just blow their mind. 
Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
946
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Posted - 2014.02.06 16:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP are after a different demographic than the Eve players they already have.
Part of the reason I never really got into the PC gaming scene was the whole my GPU is better than yours bollocks. A consoles specs are a known quantity and the programmers work to get the most out if it.
Besides, I've always suspected that PC developers, when they hit a brick coding wall, simply say oh well, just increase the minimum spec of the machine needed.
Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot
CEO of DUST University
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