DUST Search - Discusion: Remove Weapon Proficiency Skills

BL4CKST4R wrote:

Denn Maell wrote:

A passive skill that merely boosts weapon damage output by a percentage rate isn't very exciting, and quite frankly helps some weapons more than others. There are other buffs to weapons that could improve weapon performance and at the same time be evenly spread.

In their comments about TTK the Dev's mentioned they were thinking to rework the proficiency skills so that each weapon would instead only get a bonus to their damage profiles instead of a universal buff. This would be okay for RR's, CR's, and other weapons that punch through armor (as shields don't usually stand up well to anything), but would be quite devastating for weapons whose damage profile would be naturally more damaging to shields and less effective agains armor.

Remember, Armor tanking, shield tanking, and even Dual tanking may be separate (even competing) defensive strategies but we all have some of both. Additional damage against shields is one thing but armor is the last line of defense.

So instead, I was thinking of proposing an alternative to what I feel is an unbalancing choice: remove weapon proficiency skills (as they exist as a percentage boost to damage) altogether.

Umm... no infact this bonus would be more devastating to armor than shields. Currently there are only three weapons, all of which are very unused, that are effective at killing shields, the AR, SCR, and the scrambler pistol, but there is the RR, CR, SR, SMG, hmg, and the magsec, and bolt pistol.

Changing the skill to make weapons do more damage to armor, and shields, is a terrible idea. But saying the skill is bad because it would gimp shields is just misinformation. Keep in mind that when damage mods are not FOTM shields will become superior yet again.

Regardless the weapon damage boosting skill should be removed and replaced with something that matches the weapon.

For example the AR could get a rof increase, RR a reduced kick while in ADS etc

The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.


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Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 145	Posted - 2014.02.05 06:16:00 - [1] - Quote A passive skill that merely boosts weapon damage output by a percentage rate isn't very exciting, and quite frankly helps some weapons more than others. There are other buffs to weapons that could improve weapon performance and at the same time be evenly spread. In their comments about TTK the Dev's mentioned they were thinking to rework the proficiency skills so that each weapon would instead only get a bonus to their damage profiles instead of a universal buff. This would be okay for RR's, CR's, and other weapons that punch through armor (as shields don't usually stand up well to anything), but would be quite devastating for weapons whose damage profile would be naturally more damaging to shields and less effective agains armor. Remember, Armor tanking, shield tanking, and even Dual tanking may be separate (even competing) defensive strategies but we all have some of both. Additional damage against shields is one thing but armor is the last line of defense. So instead, I was thinking of proposing an alternative to what I feel is an unbalancing choice: remove weapon proficiency skills (as they exist as a percentage boost to damage) altogether. The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 145	Posted - 2014.02.05 06:18:00 - [2] - Quote This is a discussion thread, not a request (yet), to gather some information on both benefits and negative repercussions. The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 150	Posted - 2014.02.05 14:53:00 - [3] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Denn Maell wrote: A passive skill that merely boosts weapon damage output by a percentage rate isn't very exciting, and quite frankly helps some weapons more than others. There are other buffs to weapons that could improve weapon performance and at the same time be evenly spread. In their comments about TTK the Dev's mentioned they were thinking to rework the proficiency skills so that each weapon would instead only get a bonus to their damage profiles instead of a universal buff. This would be okay for RR's, CR's, and other weapons that punch through armor (as shields don't usually stand up well to anything), but would be quite devastating for weapons whose damage profile would be naturally more damaging to shields and less effective agains armor. Remember, Armor tanking, shield tanking, and even Dual tanking may be separate (even competing) defensive strategies but we all have some of both. Additional damage against shields is one thing but armor is the last line of defense. So instead, I was thinking of proposing an alternative to what I feel is an unbalancing choice: remove weapon proficiency skills (as they exist as a percentage boost to damage) altogether. Umm... no infact this bonus would be more devastating to armor than shields. Currently there are only three weapons, all of which are very unused, that are effective at killing shields, the AR, SCR, and the scrambler pistol, but there is the RR, CR, SR, SMG, hmg, and the magsec, and bolt pistol. Changing the skill to make weapons do more damage to armor, and shields, is a terrible idea. But saying the skill is bad because it would gimp shields is just misinformation. Keep in mind that when damage mods are not FOTM shields will become superior yet again. Regardless the weapon damage boosting skill should be removed and replaced with something that matches the weapon. For example the AR could get a rof increase, RR a reduced kick while in ADS etc That's what I meant (in regards to shields and armor) the proposed change to Weapon Prof. Skills would effectively 'gimp' shield-damaging weapons by not providing additional damage to armor, but as rails/crs exist now a non damage boosted Rail can already punch through shields like paper anyway, making resistance for armor piercing weapons negligible. This might not affect the weapon vs. armor/shield balance (overly much) but it would make scramblers, ARs, and LRs, less of a good choice when it comes to picking weapons. I'm all for changing the skill to something that isn't a general blanket percentage bonus, intact that could actually save many of the 'neglected' weapons and make them competitive again. The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 150	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:23:00 - [4] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Komodo Jones wrote: Apparently the shotgun proficiency skill increases rate of fire, I wouldn't mind having a skill that actually affected a gun's shortcomings instead of just increase in damage, which is always useful but as a long term strategy for the game's survival it probably shouldn't last. When you have a prototype gun, you're starting off at 10% damage above basic weapons, with proficiency at level 5, which affect's the gun's base damage, you get 26.5% damage above basic, regardless of whether or not the damage modifiers act on base damage or on THIS multiplier, you put on 3 complex damage modifiers and suddenly it increases to at least 50% above basic. How do they expect people not to get frustrated when new players fight people with at least 3, sometimes 4 or 5 times their own health, and can deal the same amount of damage in 2 bullets to their 3? Then these proto stompers run in packs of people who all have good gear and good aim...when does this become fair? lol problem with having proficiency changed to ver come short comings is that at max level all weapons of the same category would end up being the same... galente AR proficiency that increases damage versus armor? RR proficiency that reduces hip fire spread? Scr proficiency that reduces/eliminates overheat? CR proficiency that reduces delays between bursts? these could potentially become broke, but even if theyarent broke, if over done they will become the same gun with different names and skins. specialty weapons like the shotgun since it couldnt possibly do more damage has higher fire rate. this is good. MD could use a decrease in shot delays and increased projectile speed at proficiency HMG could use increase in range, accuracy and damage verse shields at proficiency Lazer needs the blanket damage increase... Agree with you there, I seriously want all weapons to perform well in very different/unique ways. My objection to a blanket damage buff is that it favors certain weapons that already have high damage per shot, while being comparatively useless to weapons that are high rate of fire and low damage per shot. The same argument goes hand in hand with blanket 'reload speed' skills, but that is outside the topic of this thread. As someone said earlier in this thread, a Proficiency Skill should benefit all variations of that weapon type rather than some. I was hesitant to say 'I request to remove this content' but I honestly see this as the best option until a more appropriate passive performance boost could come along. The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 150	Posted - 2014.02.05 18:36:00 - [5] - Quote So far, I'm hearing much agreement with the notion that a blanket percentage increase to damage needs to go (in favor of a more specifically tailored performance buff for each individual weapon type). This is about where I stood at the beginning. Are there any more thoughts on this subject especially concerning possible out comes of keeping or getting rid of the things? The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.