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Toby Flenderson
research lab
236
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Posted - 2014.02.04 00:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
A full squad of Factional Warfare Army successfully depleted 100+ of our team's clones yesterday in a FW match. We almost managed to clone the enemy before our teammates lost the game for us but unfortunately killing proto suits is harder than detonating REs at your own feet. My phone was dead so I do not have a screen shot for those who are sure to post "pics or it didn't happen", but I'm sure this wasn't the first time a random squad thought this was funny.
My question to CCP: Are changes in penalties for sabotage (team killing/suidice/etc.) being considered for FW?
I suggest that the same penalty for harming other teammates are applied to every individual without any "forgive/punish" option. If you kill yourself 4 times, you're out. If you cause yourself 5,000 (or whatever the figure is) damage, you're out.
Thoughts? |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
238
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:These tears are delightful
Does it really sound like I'm sour about it? I'm asking for a response from CCP as well as feedback from the rest of you about my suggestion. I can't imagine how I could be less QQ about this, but if you think that anyone voicing a concern about an issue they've discovered while laying this game is QQ then yes, I'm balling my eyes out. |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
238
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:How about just do away with FF since it solves nothing but allowing idiots to grief others that enjoy something other than their preferred play style. Just one more reason to let this game burn.
Are you honestly claiming that my experience would've been better if they were able to kill me without penalty instead of just themselves? |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
238
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ironyimation Inception wrote:Been doing this before 1.7 with one three man squad and doing it successfully, please more QQ
You'll find no tears here, but if you want need reinforcement that wasting 15 minutes of your own time can agitate another player I'll give you this: I would guess that I would've had more fun in that match if it didn't end as early as it did because of clones.
That's the extent of my frustration.
Now that I've allowed the troll to suckle from the tit of self gratification, would anyone else like to suggest a solution to this problem or criticize my suggestion? |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
238
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Wasn't there a topic about this yesterday? I'll paraphrase myself from that thread:
"Welcome to New Eden. Believe it or not, this is working as intended."
The fact that CCP developed a penalty for friendly fire and destruction to your own vehicles implies that sabotage is not an intended mechanic. I understand the whole "welcome to New Eden" cop out, but I think that CCP has clearly went against this ideology over and over again in DUST 514. How many sandbox features are left in this game really? PC isn't even safe as CCP is claiming to fix the mechanic that allows it to be used as an ISK farm.
If this game wasn't what it was, I'd humor the "welcome to New Eden" response but unfortunately CCP doesn't even believe in it so why should I? |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
241
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Posted - 2014.02.05 03:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Toby Flenderson wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Wasn't there a topic about this yesterday? I'll paraphrase myself from that thread:
"Welcome to New Eden. Believe it or not, this is working as intended." The fact that CCP developed a penalty for friendly fire and destruction to your own vehicles implies that sabotage is not an intended mechanic. I understand the whole "welcome to New Eden" cop out, but I think that CCP has clearly went against this ideology over and over again in DUST 514. How many sandbox features are left in this game really? PC isn't even safe as CCP is claiming to fix the mechanic that allows it to be used as an ISK farm. If this game wasn't what it was, I'd humor the "welcome to New Eden" response but unfortunately CCP doesn't even believe in it so why should I? Yeah, um, I'll just go ahead and directly quote the devs on that one: "a certain amount of griefing is healthy." Do you even CCP, bro?What they don't want is so much griefing that the game becomes unplayable. Short of that, have at it.
You can find a quote form CCP stating "Toby Flenderson is wrong, we don't intervene at all" and it wouldn't change the fact that what I'm saying is true. Besides, that quote doesn't exactly scream "**** the community, they knew what they were getting into when they signed up for Sandbox 514". Without context, it's virtually worthless, so if you'd like to include a link to where it was said, it might mean something. This is all besides the point...
Are you going to argue that they haven't changed bonuses to suits, nerfed/buffed OP/UP weapons, and removed abused mechanics? This game is simply not a sandbox type game with all of the changes they make to it because of QQ in forums. This game is never unplayable. It can always be played no matter how unbalanced it is. Wording aside, the point is that they've gone far beyond the point of keeping the game "playable" and stumbled into the territory of catering to the communities requests. Given, it takes a while, but it does happen.
PS: "Do you even CCP, bro?" <<< Coming from someone who underlines "directly quote" while not including a link to the quote for context. This just sounds stupid, just saying. |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
241
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Posted - 2014.02.05 03:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Toby Flenderson wrote:A full squad of Factional Warfare Army successfully depleted 100+ of our team's clones yesterday in a FW match. We almost managed to clone the enemy before our teammates lost the game for us but unfortunately killing proto suits is harder than detonating REs at your own feet. My phone was dead so I do not have a screen shot for those who are sure to post "pics or it didn't happen", but I'm sure this wasn't the first time a random squad thought this was funny.
My question to CCP: Are changes in penalties for sabotage (team killing/suidice/etc.) being considered for FW?
I suggest that the same penalty for harming other teammates are applied to every individual without any "forgive/punish" option. If you kill yourself 4 times, you're out. If you cause yourself 5,000 (or whatever the figure is) damage, you're out.
Thoughts? If they were detonating REs they're not doing it right. That process would be brutally slow compared to more effective suicide techniques. Just saying. I must admit that I do not know for sure the method by which they did this. It could've been another way. I'm curious, what is the faster method that you're referring to? I've heard of something with spawning into a tank and dying instantly but I'm not entirely sure how accurate that claim is. |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
241
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Posted - 2014.02.05 03:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hoover Damn wrote:Ironyimation Inception wrote:Been doing this before 1.7 with one three man squad and doing it successfully, please more QQ You've been doing something that involves zero risk and requires no skill whatsoever? Do you want a cookie? Because you're a ******* infant.
"I've been suiciding in video games for hours to mildly agitate the few players I encounter BEFORE it was cool" |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
241
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Posted - 2014.02.05 03:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Toby Flenderson wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Toby Flenderson wrote:A full squad of Factional Warfare Army successfully depleted 100+ of our team's clones yesterday in a FW match. We almost managed to clone the enemy before our teammates lost the game for us but unfortunately killing proto suits is harder than detonating REs at your own feet. My phone was dead so I do not have a screen shot for those who are sure to post "pics or it didn't happen", but I'm sure this wasn't the first time a random squad thought this was funny.
My question to CCP: Are changes in penalties for sabotage (team killing/suidice/etc.) being considered for FW?
I suggest that the same penalty for harming other teammates are applied to every individual without any "forgive/punish" option. If you kill yourself 4 times, you're out. If you cause yourself 5,000 (or whatever the figure is) damage, you're out.
Thoughts? If they were detonating REs they're not doing it right. That process would be brutally slow compared to more effective suicide techniques. Just saying. I must admit that I do not know for sure the method by which they did this. It could've been another way. I'm curious, what is the faster method that you're referring to? I've heard of something with spawning into a tank and dying instantly but I'm not entirely sure how accurate that claim is. Yes. That works. There are also sockets on the map that act as kill hazards if you jump into them. Setting up a spawn uplink near those regions allow a player to jump in while the transition screen is still black. During the time the display is rendering players often immediately gain movement control and this in turn allows players to jump--into those convenient hazards. I guess the response to this would be to buff the fence height.
If that slows it down then I'd be all for it. I forgot about the environments themselves completely. Maybe even making the respawn from a death like this much longer than a normal respawn would help. |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
241
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Posted - 2014.02.05 03:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Punish people via isk for TK's.
Punish people via isk for suicides.
If you do not have a certain amount of isk, you cannot enter FW.
I like this suggestion a lot. Could you clarify exactly how to do this? When I first read this I thought that maybe you meant something like along with the -50 wp there would be a -X ISK. I'm thinking now that maybe taking it out of the ISK earned might be good too. |
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Toby Flenderson
research lab
241
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Posted - 2014.02.05 03:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:Toby Flenderson wrote:Hoover Damn wrote:Ironyimation Inception wrote:Been doing this before 1.7 with one three man squad and doing it successfully, please more QQ You've been doing something that involves zero risk and requires no skill whatsoever? Do you want a cookie? Because you're a ******* infant. "I've been suiciding in video games for hours to mildly agitate the few players I encounter BEFORE it was cool" Mildly agitate? You've obviously never done this. The pure, unbridled rage that appears in your inbox when you do it is pure gold.
No, I've never logged on to Dust to kill myself just to see what people say to me in hate mail. I sent a message to one of the players that did this but it said something like "accidentally killed a red berry, huh?" because they somehow got a kill in the process. Anyone who sends real hate mail should probably just relax and realize this is just a game. Anyone who gets off to hate mail should probably just stick to blogs. |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
243
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Posted - 2014.02.05 20:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
toasterwaffles wrote:Did you know that if you stand on top of the null cannon, it will blow you off the top when it fires, killing you instantly. You could then punish it for friendly fire. Would it be possible to get a null cannon kicked from Faction Warfare? Only if it's in your squad. |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
243
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Posted - 2014.02.05 21:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Toby Flenderson wrote:A full squad of Factional Warfare Army successfully depleted 100+ of our team's clones yesterday in a FW match. We almost managed to clone the enemy before our teammates lost the game for us but unfortunately killing proto suits is harder than detonating REs at your own feet. My phone was dead so I do not have a screen shot for those who are sure to post "pics or it didn't happen", but I'm sure this wasn't the first time a random squad thought this was funny.
My question to CCP: Are changes in penalties for sabotage (team killing/suidice/etc.) being considered for FW?
I suggest that the same penalty for harming other teammates are applied to every individual without any "forgive/punish" option. If you kill yourself 4 times, you're out. If you cause yourself 5,000 (or whatever the figure is) damage, you're out.
Thoughts? This is a good point. From an immersion standpoint it does makes sense that our employers would want to limit suicides in the same way they limit TKs. I'd be tempted to ignore the damage limit and just count suicides. I guess you're right, self inflicted damage doesn't need to be considered as long as suicides are counted. |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
243
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Posted - 2014.02.05 21:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Toby Flenderson wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Punish people via isk for TK's.
Punish people via isk for suicides.
If you do not have a certain amount of isk, you cannot enter FW. I like this suggestion a lot. Could you clarify exactly how to do this? When I first read this I thought that maybe you meant something like along with the -50 wp there would be a -X ISK. I'm thinking now that maybe taking it out of the ISK earned might be good too. I mean a direct hit to someones wallet. Punishing someone on payout isnt going to stop someone who comes in purely to troll. But taking money away from them directly? Yes. I like this a lot. Would they just be kicked when they've lost all of their ISK or sooner? I'd be ok with an exponential ISK punishment restarting every match. |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
244
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Posted - 2014.02.06 04:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ichor Wrech wrote:Jakar Umbra wrote:Faction Warfare Army successfully did something?
On another note, the problem is that in New Eden, people get paid even for failing a contract as well, or for completely going against the contract in this case, so yeah...
At least Faction Warfare Army finally embraced the fact that they are only good at one thing: Dying. yeh then we kick'd ass after with 5 wins in a row
Good for you. You must be really good. If I paid you would you consider teaching me how to play like you? |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
244
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Posted - 2014.02.06 04:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Far Fall wrote:That whole "welcome to new eden" thing is always inappropriately used. Yes new eden allows griefing and backstabbing, but the point is to mimic the real world. You CAN commit insurance fraud, but you have to be aware of the potential consequences of your action.
All griefing in this game must have some form of consequence that makes sense within the context of that situation. Surely the Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar or Amarr would blacklist you from fighting for them if you caused them to consistently lose battles. This is a game though so that would be extreme, I think removing isk from a persons account is a good idea.
In battles where you are contracted by NPC organizations, there should be direct game mechanic enforced penalties for suiciding or teamkilling and intentionally causing loss. This would be in line with what would probably happen in the in game universe.
In battles where you are contracted by your corp, you can awox all you want because the consequences come directly from your corporation/other players. People will trust you less. (Though corporations should have measures to prevent awoxing as any big real life corporation would try and prevent corporate sabotage.)
Essentially I am saying that, negative actions should have consequences in game that make sense just like negative actions have consequences in real life. These consequences should make sense in the specific context that the griefing/backstabbing/negative action takes place.
"Welcome to New Eden" doesn't mean "lol I can do wahtevar I want without consequences"
Very well put. The LP was a good start in trying to make these battles seem more realistic, it would be nice if they kept up with this trend and implemented more consequences for actions.
It seems like the ISK removal idea would definitely be a punishment that would mirror real life penalties for misconduct. The 24 hour ban is good, but I think taking ISK away would mean more to someone who was intentionally trying to ruin the game. |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
244
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Posted - 2014.02.06 04:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Piraten Hovnoret wrote:Have sent pictures to CCP when they have done this before. I even posted the response here at the forums? Got a warning buy CCP for that.
So without saying what they did respond I give you this tip; if you c that corp having squads on both sides JUST LEVE
Now figure out the rest buy your self
Yeah I didn't think much would change from making this forum, I was just curious to see if CCP would respond with any sort of confirmation that the penalties were still being considered for future revision.
It's too bad that you got a warning for trying to point something out to them though. If I ever get into a game with them again I'll probably just play as I normally would. This game was within maybe 20 clones? I'm not sure exactly. The squad I joined earlier was organized and offset their suicides fairly well. It would make for a really goofy screenshot winning with a 100+ clone handicap. |
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