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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
266
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Posted - 2014.02.04 00:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:Everyone knows that the current FOTM are the Rail Rifle and Combat Rifles. Sure, these are the two newest weapons, and they may be slightly overtuned, but the real issue is that they are extremely effective at long ranges (intended), and still quite effective when in CQC (intended?). And with the published stats to the Magsec, Bolt and Ion pistols, there are seemingly no changes that are on the horizon to fix this.
Compare those two new rifles to our old faithful trusty companion, the Assault Rifle, and while it is extremely effective close range (doing the most damage, smallest spread), the detriment to using it at long ranges is fairly high: it stops functioning, it doesn't hit its target, or the damage is so incidental as to not matter. The problem is that the Rail and Combat rifles are more effective at close ranges than the Assault rifle is at long ranges; there's not the same degree of "reverse falloff" that afflicts the RR and CR at close ranges that the AR experiences when firing past effective range.
One solution would be to dramatically increase the dispersion of the RR and CR up close--this would make them very ineffective while hip firing (especially so for the assault versions (talking more spread than an unskilled SMG puts out)), but very well when aiming down scope. Another possibility would be to create a "minimum range" where those two offenders would have very little damage up close (akin to the AR's incidental damage at long ranges). There needs to be an incentive for a RR or CR user to swap to their sidearm in CQC, and the "burst" fire mode of the CR or spool up time on the RR are largely negated by the Assault variant of the CR and the fact that the dispersion while hip firing the RR is too good (the base burst firing mode of the CR is a fairly big drawback, requiring constant trigger pulls).
Without some major change to the close damage-dealing power of the "long range weapons," they'll continue to dominate over any short- to medium-range weapon due to the extreme detriment of using weapons with very short optimal and effective ranges vs weapons that perform great at long ranges and well at close ones.
as a mouse and keyboard user I can tell you the RR and to a lesser extent the CR(CR is broken and needs a ridiculous kick and dispersion at high fire rates to balance it) design are not the problem with their effectiveness in CQC.
The issue is bullet magnetism, landing shots in cqc with the RR is worse then the difference between the AR and the SMG, the AR is almost always gonna win against the RR.........unless bullet magnetism is their and then the rail rifle goes toe to toe or beats the AR in most fights.
the CR is a slightly different story as any fast trigger finger or turbo can out pace the ROF and DPS of an AR with the CR and with AA you can focus on your fire rate and not your aiming, and while with out bullet magnetism it wouldn't be as good in CQC, the CR NEEDS! a severe kick and dispersion increase at high fire rates. |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
266
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Posted - 2014.02.04 01:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
actually one thing I should mention here the CR and Assault CR are two very different guns, the assault CR is meant to compete with the AR in the same way the SG competes with the SMG, the ACR is a mid range burst DPS weapons with too few rounds in the clip for longer engagements(this weapon must be god mode withBM), at range how ever its as anemic as the AR as while it has longer range it needs those bullets to land for full damage to get kills with one clip.
the CR how ever stick a trubo on it and call it god mode you have a gun that can compete with the RR for range with a fire rate of the ACR, as little kick and dispersion as the AR the same damage per round as an AR with almost twice the fire rate of the AR, and while it has less rounds in the clip its still ~ 3 kills per clip.
of course adding kick and dispersion would do nothing to the weapon thanks to BM just requiring that your reticule be on the target for all you bullets to hit.
that said ARs have perfect accuracy thanks to turbos soooooooo, one day CCP will learn the importance of proper balancing with kick and dispersion AND balancing around turbos. and that BM is BS, seriously CCP get rid of that garbage. |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
266
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
ToRgUe77 wrote:the problem right now is that for some reason weapons meant for long range are jack of all trades. RR should be terrible in cqc while the ar being a cqc rifle should dominate. After ccp fixes this(hopefully) the next step will be making new urban maps. we have plenty of long range fighting maps but we need more cqc. I love playing as a heavy but since 75% of the maps are wide and open, Im forced to either stick to an objective inside a building or run assault.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves about CCPs map design, its tooo damn open and spread out. That said again why the RR and CR feel like jacks is due to bulletmag try and use them cqc with out AA and you will find they are horrible (unless you get an amazing triger finger or a turbo then the CR is broken as ****!) |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
266
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Posted - 2014.02.04 09:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dis Cord wrote:Balancing weapons on range was a terribly flawed idea from the start. Mercs aren't spaceships travelling at extreme speeds and dog fighting dozens of kilometers apart. What makes sense for Eve does not make sense for soldiers running around on the ground. Stop balancing on range, and improve the maps by adding cover for troops to move around without constantly being exposed in open terrain.
............. ******* speechless, go play some old FPSs and see that they did exactly that balanced for range, granted it wasn't typically through fall off but they did that as well, it works just fine and adds a lot to the game IF you don't break that balance with stupid OP AA like bullet magnetism. |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
266
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 09:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Waiyu Ren wrote:I had a 1v1 rifle duel with another player today. We were both running toward the same point from opposite directions, and spotted each other at about 80-90 meters apart. I opened fire first (AR) strafing erratically trying to get closer, he barely moved (CR), lined me up and... Guess who won. Yeah I know I was out of optimal range, but so was he.... He just stood there.... I really hope he had maxed proficiency, because otherwise that really sucks. Combat rifles: Is it true that timed fanning of the trigger defeats kick? (I don't know, i haven't used it enough, or like, at all....)
kick and dispersion at higher levels of the CR are non exsistant, the ACR has a little more but its manageable the CR well you can laserline people with that thing if you can pull the trigger fast enough, and the clip limitation really only applies to the ACR, you have ~3 kill in the CR if you have AA on and don't waste your shots.
oh and if you are using ads on your rifle you are a moron, the only reason to bother is if your target is hard to see, and you need some zoom. |
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