|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
563
   |
Posted - 2014.02.03 21:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Everyone knows that the current FOTM are the Rail Rifle and Combat Rifles. Sure, these are the two newest weapons, and they may be slightly overtuned, but the real issue is that they are extremely effective at long ranges (intended), and still quite effective when in CQC (intended?). And with the published stats to the Magsec, Bolt and Ion pistols, there are seemingly no changes that are on the horizon to fix this.
Compare those two new rifles to our old faithful trusty companion, the Assault Rifle, and while it is extremely effective close range (doing the most damage, smallest spread), the detriment to using it at long ranges is fairly high: it stops functioning, it doesn't hit its target, or the damage is so incidental as to not matter. The problem is that the Rail and Combat rifles are more effective at close ranges than the Assault rifle is at long ranges; there's not the same degree of "reverse falloff" that afflicts the RR and CR at close ranges that the AR experiences when firing past effective range.
One solution would be to dramatically increase the dispersion of the RR and CR up close--this would make them very ineffective while hip firing (especially so for the assault versions (talking more spread than an unskilled SMG puts out)), but very well when aiming down scope. Another possibility would be to create a "minimum range" where those two offenders would have very little damage up close (akin to the AR's incidental damage at long ranges). There needs to be an incentive for a RR or CR user to swap to their sidearm in CQC, and the "burst" fire mode of the CR or spool up time on the RR are largely negated by the Assault variant of the CR and the fact that the dispersion while hip firing the RR is too good (the base burst firing mode of the CR is a fairly big drawback, requiring constant trigger pulls).
Without some major change to the close damage-dealing power of the "long range weapons," they'll continue to dominate over any short- to medium-range weapon due to the extreme detriment of using weapons with very short optimal and effective ranges vs weapons that perform great at long ranges and well at close ones.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
|
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
564
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 22:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Master Smurf wrote:Maybe you should alter your op a bit - CR is supposed to be good close to mid.
Maybe it can be toned down a bit; delay between bursts increased or RoF decreased. The AR can also be given a slight damage increase and sharper fall off in damage but both weapons are supposed to do well in close range.
RR needs a bit of work, possibly spool time increase and hipfire accuracy lessened. True about the CR. I was more looking at the optimal and effective ranges from this post; I see that it slots in between the AR and SR, but its still 15 meters farther in its optimal range (close to 38% longer optimal) than an AR. I guess this range works out about right, given the burst nature of the rifle, and its assault variant is only 5 meters longer optimal than a comparable AR.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
|
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
564
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 23:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Havaru Fox wrote:why not just give the race suits a bonus for the race guns (while we need more guns for that)
assault gets bonus for mid close,mid and long (based on suit type if you want a fast med suit)
scout for sniper and close range weapons
heavy for close range and mid + heavy weapons
while i really have to say that i'm a bit bored of the "weapon x is op" stuff.
yes, if i know from where you're coming, then i can kill you with a long/mid range gun in a close up fight, is you stand in front of me... thats REAL! maybe they should rework the price, so a proto "lil machinegun" dosnt cost as much as a "T2" rifle, since close fight people die more anyway.
but i'm really, really bored if all this QQ here.
whats next week?
i came to a gunfight with a knife and he killed me.. guns'r OP?!?? You're missing the point. I'm not complaining about the variety of weapons. My complaint lies in the lack of downsides to using long range rifles at all ranges. If a rifle puts out respectable damage at the longest range, and then it can turn around and do that same respectable damage at close range, then where is the downside? Why would anyone (and we've seen that most people don't) use a close-to-midrange weapon that does marginally higher dps when there is a huge downside in that if your target runs away you lost tremendous killing potential on him? There just needs to be more downsides to using a long range weapon up close. Without that, there's no "balance."
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
|
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
566
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 04:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:I don't get the need this forum had for every gun to be balanced. It's ok for guns to be niche. The issue is that the long range rifles aren't niche. In order to be niche weapon, it would have to be really good at something, and terrible at something else. For example, the AR falls into this category. It's excellent at close range and terrible from farther away. The problem with the longer range rifles, the Rail Rifle for example, is that it excels at all things and isn't terrible at something. It's great long range (low dispersion, great scope, etc.) and it doesn't suffer at close range (high dispersion from the hip, low damage, etc.). So where, then, is the niche in that? If a weapon is good at everything, then you can hardly say its niche nor balanced.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
|
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
572
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 15:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Map design doesn't change the fact taht the CR is vastly superior to the AR and the RR/ARR provides the same stopping power in cqc with tighter hipfire spread.
I use the RR regulary in cqc and it performs so well tthat there is no reason to use the AR. BW the CR/ACR AND RR/ARR all have better accuracy compared to the AR...
With the new rifles CCP broke the rule longer range = lower dps and higher dps = shorter range.
As all Rifles have roughly the same DPS the only thing that matters is range and to some degree damage per clip. And in these fields the RR/ARR claerly outshine the other rifles, followed by the SCR/ASCR and CR/ACR, than comes a long time nothing followed by the AR...(don't get me started on the AR variants) This really is the crux of the problem. The CQC performance of the "long range" weapons is out of balance. They don't present any downsides that would incentivize using a close- to medium-range rifle, since the long range ones perform well at all ranges.
I'd love to know how these things were balanced. Surely, whoever did the balancing realized that there are no significant drawbacks to using a long range rifle, both at range and in CQC. The spool up time is really a gimmick when the rate of fire of the RR is so high (even higher than the Breach AR variant, which is based on a high-RoF Assault Rifle!). I thought "breach" weapons were slow-firing, high damage rounds at long ranges. It doesn't seem like that's what we got, at least for the Rail Rifle.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
|
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
572
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:Johnny Guilt wrote:1.add more assets into the existing open maps for players to unitize as cover(rocks,hills,terrain,container cans,boxes etc.
2.better cqc oriented module maps
3.lower the AR optimal range by 10meters and increase AR base damage by 6%-7% across all tiers Don't let RR/CR dominance fool you into believing the AR needs a damage buff, it does not. it does when it supposed to have noticeably higher damage and functionality compared to the other rifles in its optimal range(cqc) which it doesn't atm. which gun would you pick? Gun A) -425 dps -mid hipfire accuracy -low range -low recoil Gun B) -421 dps -high hipfire accuracy -long range -mid recoil EDIT:;if not damage than a ROF increase to the AR from 750 to 800(to get nearly the same DPS as if it had a 6-7% damage increase) with 10m less optimal range. That's the problem. There's just not enough downsides to the long range rifles. Again, if you try and use an AR at range, it produces largely irrelevant damage. The same can not be said for a RR at close range. The damage is still very high, and the dispersion is pretty good as well.
I'm not saying to add in a "minimum range," an "arming range," so to speak, where the gun would do incidental damage before getting into optimal (a "reverse falloff" sort of thing), but there really needs to be some adjustment to the long range weapons so they aren't so great at all ranges. There needs to be an incentive to swap to a sidearm--a reason to swap to my SMG when I'm using a RR. If a RR was useless at close range, but excellent at long range, well, there's my reason.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
|
|
|
| |
|