DUST Search - HAV vs AV balance, or, why it should take two AVers to kill a tank.

Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:

Joseph Ridgeson wrote:

It is a difficult scenario any way that it is put. The very concept of "I cannot possibly kill this person but he can kill me" is something that most people don't like in any game. It isn't a test of skill. An Infantryman, with load up meant to kill other Infantryman, will never kill even an empty module militia tank. This is something that most people find extremely annoying and I can understand that, even as the Tank pilot.

Specializing into Anti-Vehicle skills is only good in the case of the enemy pulling out their tanks, so it can be seen as a wasteful skill. If you pay for the precaution and a tank never comes out, you effectively have burned your SP. The vehicle user, from the point of view of the AV dude, is at least capable of deciding whether the AV-Tank battle happens. So "why would I waste points for a scenario that might never happen?" becomes a point of order. That is where most of the frustration comes from, just from my opinion.

But I digress. About your post:

Adding an additional vehicle meant solely for killing Infantry but be terrible with other vehicles (MAV's) adds a fairly huge SP dump for Tankers though. AV and Infantry for a Heavy is a single weapon switch. If the Swarm is made less embarrassing, swapping a weapon for Assaults, Scouts, Logistics, and Commandos suddenly turns them into an AV. If pilots would have to change to a completely different type of Vehicle to become targeted towards Infantry as well as training a new turret, it puts a larger burden of SP on Tankers. It seems more reasonable to suggest the blaster to be weaker against vehicles OR to make the HAV and MAV go off the same skill but only a HAV can use a rail and a MAV a blaster. Overall, I don't know how to feel about it. Good, bad, I am honestly clueless.

Very coherent and well thought post mate.

At the moment, there isn't any value in an MAV class vehicle; that's the worst part of the situation from my perspective. Perhaps if player counts (in match) were doubled, then we could branch out more. But I dislike the idea of an HAV being the be-all and end-all of slaying.

Also thanks :)


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Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 426	Posted - 2014.02.03 12:52:00 - [1] - Quote It is a difficult scenario any way that it is put. The very concept of "I cannot possibly kill this person but he can kill me" is something that most people don't like in any game. It isn't a test of skill. An Infantryman, with load up meant to kill other Infantryman, will never kill even an empty module militia tank. This is something that most people find extremely annoying and I can understand that, even as the Tank pilot. Specializing into Anti-Vehicle skills is only good in the case of the enemy pulling out their tanks, so it can be seen as a wasteful skill. If you pay for the precaution and a tank never comes out, you effectively have burned your SP. The vehicle user, from the point of view of the AV dude, is at least capable of deciding whether the AV-Tank battle happens. So "why would I waste points for a scenario that might never happen?" becomes a point of order. That is where most of the frustration comes from, just from my opinion. But I digress. About your post: Adding an additional vehicle meant solely for killing Infantry but be terrible with other vehicles (MAV's) adds a fairly huge SP dump for Tankers though. AV and Infantry for a Heavy is a single weapon switch. If the Swarm is made less embarrassing, swapping a weapon for Assaults, Scouts, Logistics, and Commandos suddenly turns them into an AV. If pilots would have to change to a completely different type of Vehicle to become targeted towards Infantry as well as training a new turret, it puts a larger burden of SP on Tankers. It seems more reasonable to suggest the blaster to be weaker against vehicles OR to make the HAV and MAV go off the same skill but only a HAV can use a rail and a MAV a blaster. Overall, I don't know how to feel about it. Good, bad, I am honestly clueless. Very coherent and well thought post mate.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 433	Posted - 2014.02.04 06:05:00 - [2] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: It is a difficult scenario any way that it is put. The very concept of "I cannot possibly kill this person but he can kill me" is something that most people don't like in any game. It isn't a test of skill. An Infantryman, with load up meant to kill other Infantryman, will never kill even an empty module militia tank. This is something that most people find extremely annoying and I can understand that, even as the Tank pilot. Specializing into Anti-Vehicle skills is only good in the case of the enemy pulling out their tanks, so it can be seen as a wasteful skill. If you pay for the precaution and a tank never comes out, you effectively have burned your SP. The vehicle user, from the point of view of the AV dude, is at least capable of deciding whether the AV-Tank battle happens. So "why would I waste points for a scenario that might never happen?" becomes a point of order. That is where most of the frustration comes from, just from my opinion. But I digress. About your post: Adding an additional vehicle meant solely for killing Infantry but be terrible with other vehicles (MAV's) adds a fairly huge SP dump for Tankers though. AV and Infantry for a Heavy is a single weapon switch. If the Swarm is made less embarrassing, swapping a weapon for Assaults, Scouts, Logistics, and Commandos suddenly turns them into an AV. If pilots would have to change to a completely different type of Vehicle to become targeted towards Infantry as well as training a new turret, it puts a larger burden of SP on Tankers. It seems more reasonable to suggest the blaster to be weaker against vehicles OR to make the HAV and MAV go off the same skill but only a HAV can use a rail and a MAV a blaster. Overall, I don't know how to feel about it. Good, bad, I am honestly clueless. Very coherent and well thought post mate. At the moment, there isn't any value in an MAV class vehicle; that's the worst part of the situation from my perspective. Perhaps if player counts (in match) were doubled, then we could branch out more. But I dislike the idea of an HAV being the be-all and end-all of slaying. Also thanks :) I was giving you an option on how to change the HAV Blaster Infantry killer that is still decent against other vehicles. Make HAV and MAV the same skill but only an HAV can fit a Rail and only a MAV can fit a Blaster. MAV would be much easier to kill with AV and would have a Blaster. It is meant to kill Infantry. The HAV would be far, far harder to kill and only really meant for killing other HAV's and MAV's. So it would go: MAV kills Infantryman AV either kills MAV or makes it go away. Infantryman kills AV, so the MAV can come back. HAV kills MAV easily. Coordinated AV kills HAV. HAV vs. HAV is a skill fight (who gets the drop, who lands more hits, etc) I don't know if I like the idea or agree with it but I like the idea better than having an Infantryman be able to be AV with a weapon switch but Tank users have to swap turrets (weapons) and vehicles (dropsuits). No matter what, the Swarm Launcher needs to be looked at... Be well.