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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
218
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Posted - 2014.02.03 03:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
The fact that people whine about Heavies/Sentinels using Light Weapons as if it's some kind of problem in and of itself shows that they have no idea what the hell is going on. The sickness, the underlying problem, is the fact that there are only two heavy weapons in the game. The root of the issue is that CCP hasn't gotten us racial heavy weaponry.
With the pending release of racial Heavy suits in 1.8, the priority in 1.9 should be heavy weapons. You will see the symptom of heavies/sentinels using light weapons intensify as more heavy suit options are added to the game while the amount of heavy weapons remains at two.
Racial heavy weaponry would include a short and long range option for each race and all the variants CCP deems fit to muddle the game with. That would be, at bare minimum, 2 options for each races, bringing the available types of Heavy Weapons to 8. Whether those weapons are anti-vehicle or anti-infantry doesn't matter, there just needs to be two per race. Anything besides those two bare minimum basic entries would be 'new content.'
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
8766
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Posted - 2014.02.03 03:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
There needs to medium range anti-infantry heavy weapon option. New heavy weapons need to be a priority after 1.8.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
349
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Posted - 2014.02.03 03:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
message from Godin: Now that Light and medium frames seems to be in a really good place at 1.8, Now's the time of fixing Heavies, and continuing work on vehicles. |
Sneaky Fletcher
Three-body Solution
61
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Posted - 2014.02.03 04:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:-snip-
hmmm
yes the prognosis for no more heavy weapons soon TM is a barrage of these new heavies using more than just HMG's/FG's.(inevitable)
but the sickness causing such symptoms I believe lies in something other than lack of ALL racial, or even some versatility with the existing weapons.
If heavies will be spammed with rail and combat rifles it is because their roles as heavies is not well defined, even more so that TTK is so low whereas back in the day it was a nightmare finding yourself toe to toe with a heavy.
right now the heavy CAN be a cheap way to gain more HP bypassing the grind for complex modules for medium frames just to make a few kills.
The sickness is most likely something as simple as TTK or lack of a supporting logi to encourage FULL FLEDGED "Heavy'ing"(?) |
Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
218
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 04:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
When I say short and long range I mean relative to that races style. In EVE the short/long would be Blaster/Rail (Hybrid), Pulse/Beam (Energy), Autocannon/Artillery (Projectile), and missiles don't follow any standard naming scheme, but it would be Rockets/Lights, etc.
A good example of this that's already in DUST is Amarr Light Weapons. They have the Scrambler/Laser combo filling their Short/Long pattern. That being said, the Scrambler is obviously not a 'short' range weapon compared to something like a Combat Rifle or Shotgun, but it's shorter than the Laser Rifle. (I'm not saying if those two weapons are balanced or not, just that they fit the pattern of EVE.)
My thought has ALWAYS been the absolute priority for CCP needs to be pushing out the basic racial gear that would follow the pattern of EVE. 1.8 is a great step in that direction, and I feel that racial Heavy Weapons would be the next logical step for 1.9 for the reason I described: You gave (will give) us more Heavy suit options, now give us more Heavy weapon options.
You've misunderstood my meaning when I say it's a symptom. It's not a bad thing at all. The fact that people talk about Heavies using Light Weapons as if it is the problem are missing the point that it is NOT the problem (and it's just using the freedom the fitting system gives us, like you say, which is a good thing), but the problem is lack of content, in this case lack of Heavy Weapons.
To that end, I believe the best way to quickly introduce Heavy Weapons to the game would be to give them to us in a way that follows what EVE has established. Each race gets a (relatively) short and long range weapon that fits their racial lore, i.e. what they have in EVE and currently in DUST.
For example, the Amarr have no Heavy Weaponry. Following EVE, I already know that they should have a shorter range weapon that has high DPS, low alpha, high RoF (a Pulse weapon), and a longer range weapon with higher alpha, lower RoF, etc. (a Beam weapon.) CCP doesn't need to brain storm new ideas for that. It's right there in what they've already established in EVE. They just need to add FPS mechanics to it to make it work in an FPS environment. the Heavy Beam could be a sustained fire weapon like the Laser Rifle. Heat build up would be an issue, etc.
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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
2796
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Posted - 2014.02.03 04:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lack of heavy weapon parity is also a symptom, actually.
The sickness is that this game is incomplete, and every balancing error in this game is a symptom of that sickness.
Shield Recommendations
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Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University
Ivy League
220
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Posted - 2014.02.03 04:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sneaky Fletcher wrote:some good observations about TTK
See, but TTK is another symptom, I believe. As basic racial content is finally put in game, (not things like new roles), meaningful balance progress can be made towards finding the sweet spot for TTK. How are we supposed to balance Light suits and Heavy suits, Sidearms, Heavy Weapons, HAVs and LAVs, etc, when half of them aren't even in game?
Put it all in game ASAP, let it play out, get the most crucial feedback points, and then start balancing.
As a couple of side notes, this is a prime case to illustrate our need for a test server Singularity-style.
Another thing is that I believe TTK should in general be just a tad higher. EVE (and by reasonable extension, DUST) is a game full of strategies and tactics, but they only work because you generally aren't dead in 2 seconds, giving you time to use those strategies and tactics. With a slightly higher TTK DUST can really let those different play styles shine through.
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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COVERT SUBTERFUGE
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
DARKSTAR ARMY
115
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Posted - 2014.02.03 04:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't have an issue with this. If someone wants to run a slow heavy frame suit with a rail rifle, have at it. The customisation and the ability to do unconventional things with fittings is what the game was marketed with for months and months. David Reid always talked about putting a sniper rifle on a heavy suit as an example of this back in the early days.
Subterfuge and terrorist GOD in the making
Proud Minmatar - Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL
Love the Art of War
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