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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
522
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Posted - 2014.02.02 15:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:2 mid 2 low low CPU low PG and to top it off the low cpu and pg means you cant run small guns on the thing with out cutting back on rep or def rely guys crying over MLT tanks is Lame EPIC LAME !!!!!
This coming from the tanker that's a big fan of redline railing. Which I suggest you stick with, rolling with the big boys isn't your thing
And zomg, you run guns on your tank from the redline.
EPIC FAIL
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
523
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Posted - 2014.02.02 15:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Atiim wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:demonkiller 12 wrote:ive gone through maybe 100 tanks since 1.7, NEVER lost any to AV infantry, only to railguns across the map, get rid of militia tanks, but normal tanks and little and give them a super high price Ummm No ! we when over this read back some taking out MLT tanks only hurts the game and players and price them hi only hurts the game more as well when you have only good tankers and player who could be good tankers not even skill into them do to the price of failing ! and like i said Pub battles dont count ! And let me guess, PC is all that does count? First off, only a very small part of the playerbase participates in PC, and only a small part of the playerbase could participate in Planetary Conquest if they wanted to. Furthermore, balance around the Planetary Conquest game-mode implies that everyone is running Prototype and Officer gear 24/7. If you are going to allow something to be balanced in one gamemode, but not another; then do not allow them to be in said gamemode (Basically, if you won't balance them around PUBs, then remove them from PUBs) I think these guys also covered that point in another thread: DUST Fiend wrote:PC is too small of a sample size, considering not only do so few play it, so few even CAN play it. You just wind up with a few set styles of play that generally stick, and you don't really get the bigger picture of overall balance.
Tanks themselves are fairly balanced, it's red line abuse and militia tank abuse that are causing issues in the general population, and I would not be remotely surprised to see dedicated red line rail tanks in PC matches that literally never ever leave their post.
I think a lot of PC players are putting too much value in their "status" and failing to see that it's the same game with more coordination. The mechanics don't change, it's just that you generally have an entire team working together and everyone just uses what's statistically strongest not because they're interested in the balance of the game, but because they're interested in winning that match.
Surt gods end wrote:You can't shape this game out of something as exclusive as PC. To many factors plays into why it is exclusive and great team corp is not one of em. or I should say only reason. CB has proven to be the better judgment of strong teams. Without the VIP treatment.
PC players are about 5% of this game's playerbase. Anyone saying that something should be balanced around what almost nobody plays clearly has no credibility in a balance discussion [/thread]
I liken PC to what endgame. Every single person is running every bit of proto they have. So yes, balancing from a PC perspective and not from a PUB perspective is a good idea. Teams are balanced in the sense of gear unlike PUBS, so please attim tell me, how is that not a balanced perspective.
Yes PC is exclusive, but it IS endgame.
To compare, Pubs are like PvP Battlegrounds in WoW. Sure you can try to balance things around everything below level 59, but the level 60's battlegrounds is the endgame of PVP. Everyone has the opportunity to use the BEST gear, and have the BEST and Max skills.
The problem with dust, NO ******* ENDGAME aside from PC that is mostly locked up all the time.
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
523
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tanks - A real balance thread
Tanks - Balancing turrets
Oh, and here are some REAL tank balancing threads. Read and learn.
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
523
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 17:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bethhy wrote: I Agree there has to be some shaping of the game around the casual gamer experience afterall even I am a casual gamer... and so is 95% of the community.
But PC is the "End game" as it is said and a lot of people are missing what that even means. You can name off a list of the big ol' FPS developers of all time with the big success stories, and everyone of them have one thing in common...they test and balance their overall game around the "end game" aspect... or the Competitive, highly skilled player pool. These players afterall will show you the flaw in your design before anything.
This is not to give to much "attention" on player status.. a lot of the players that hold good status in PC, held it long before PC even existed. Most of these skilled player's in this pool can make newly 500k SP characters and get results most players playing for 8 months struggle to get in the best of circumstances.
We want public contracts to be competitive and accessible for all, but if there is MASSIVE balance, performance, roles, racial, vehicle, equipment, dropship, map efficacy.... etc ... etc... issues in the most competitive aspect of the game. Like is pointed out by so many supposed "counter points" That are taken advantage of while huge aspects of the game are left useless....
Then yes... PC is a very relevant place to look at balance and implementation success... Because even anyone of the quoted players, can farm new players with a plasma cannon... but bring it to PC? Pfft. You can go down the line with racial parity in general, game performance, equipment use and abuse, maps... you name it... And what is a trend in PC fastly becomes one in pubs.
Meh...
It is always a pleasure to read your posts. Always straight forward and logical.
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
529
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Posted - 2014.02.03 13:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
MLT tanks are a pretty hot topic with tankers and non tankers alike. Do ambush, and you will know exactly what I'm talking about. I myself have been doing ambush rather exclusively, trying to just run the infantry game. More often than not, I'm forced to pull out a pro tank to clear the field of the somo's and sica's. Or any tank for that matter.
Let's break the problem down. It's about the strength of a milita tank, given the SP investment (0), the insanely low price of milita tanks (spammable), and the power of the rail gun.
So, you lose one slot, either a high slot or low slot, depending on the type.
A sica for example has 2 highs and 2 lows. Regardless of PG/CPU restrictions, a sica can overcome them with the low slots. Imagine a blaster, running duel hardeners against infantry. The only thing that changes on hardeners as they scale up is the CD period. So 24 seconds up time at 60% resistance times 2. Immune to pretty much all AV while hardeners are up. But after that 24 to 48 seconds, LONG COOLDOWN. That's cool, back up and call another in, or lose it and call another one in. After all, it only cost you 60k for that single tank.
How much is 60K? For me it's about 2 of my advanced dropsuits fitted up with a mix of ADV and Basic stuff. That is CHEAP. But the thing is, a MLT tank is nothing like a dropsuit. It's immune to small arms, and if fit for tank, immune to anything but a tank or forge gun. I think the biggest reason these are spammed so much is the incredibly low cost coupled with the incredible durability and power.
But think about it will you, what happens when one side spams 6 MLT tanks out. You act like it's SO easy to destroy one, but have you ever tried as infantry. A single forge gunner is not going to typically clear the field of these tanks. Even 2 will be struggling, but even then have you ever been hit by a MLT forge gun or anything less than PRO. It tickles. This is a MLT tank we are talking and you need PRO weapons to take it out?
And while you are focusing on the tanks with half your team because they are mowing you down, they are still running 10 dedicated infantry killers, and yr running around in AV. Do you not see how imbalanced this becomes?
And no, I don't want to hear, oh well wait for hardeners, because I KNOW this is easy to work around. Given the cost, losing one isn't a problem, nor is calling in a fresh one.
Yes, there are many ways AV can take out tanks, but do you expect every single person to spec into AV? Or that they can even use it against said tanks. Have you ever tried to AV down 6 blasters outside of your tank with AV?
And the worst part is, it takes NO SP to be proficient in a MLT. Yes, something does need to be done with MLT (IE raise the cost).
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
530
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Posted - 2014.02.04 12:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Let's be honest Bad Furry is right, mlt tanks aren't the problem Tanks in general are the problem. I'm willing to admit a few problems with tanks, but you're insane if you think that mlt prices and mods don't contribute heavily. The problems as I see them are : hardeners run for way too long in general making them always more useful than hp increasing modules (there is zero tactical use), railgun (and to a lesser extent missile) damage is absurd and is only further compounded by insane bonuses from damage mods (which should be cut down to 15-20%), tanks are very very fast (I think an operable speed would be about 23-25m/s before plates come in), hp increasing modules aren't worth fitting when they should really be the standard and hardeners the 'ohshit' button, dual repairer fits can be prettymuch invincible to light/less skilled av, tank costs are much too cheap (I understand that no one wants to go 6 battles to buy one toy but I think the costs of hulls & large turrets need to go up), tank versus tank right now falls into 'who saw who first', blaster RoF is high enough that it allows spray and pray vs infantry. I would like to see health increasing modules be worth fitting (remember this slows down armor tanks and puts them in stand and deliver while shield tanks are supposed to be hit and run, hardeners length reduced promoting tactical use, the amount of repair on armor modules go down somewhat (meaning that you can repair incidental damage if a threat is dealt with but if you get beat back its time to find a supply depot), railgun damage lowered by about 250 and damage mods reduced to about 20%, and finally I would like to see blasters get a RoF reduction (but moderate damage increase) as well as an overall increase to cost on tanks to make them comparable or slightly more than an assault dropship for isk value. Tanks are in many ways much better than some previous patches but in other ways they're much worse - I think that we can make tanks better still but also have them be balanced and fun. Ok i smell newbe ! no re priceing will not help you no nerf batting railsguns and blasters will not fix the game no health increasing modules buff will fix tank warfare it will just go back to the old land drake/ Domi mission runner fits no speed nerfs will not make tanks fair youll see the amror one never being used at all unless a noob calls one in shields will be the only tank and redline camping go,s up ! like ccp said be for tanks are fine now there's some stuff to poke at still like the blaster ammo and how meany tanks can be in battle but that's it there still adding alot to the game and rite now they rely only working on the drop suits as for tanks get used to it this is dust not BF not COD not MW the AR guy is not your hero of the day ! its the guy holding the spawn up links in the scout suit the guys with the rep tool and nano hives the TD blowing up the blaster tank befor he can kill them the HMG holding the point and the other baster tank shuting down the other teams push to the HMG the FC yelling at the top of his lungs at everyone for anything !!! the eve player in space droping the OB then bugging out be for the red locks him ! the AR guy is you doing this or this calling in the OB or hacking the point. Dust 514 = Team EDIT : O yeah forgot something els Armor tanks need to go Slower then shield tanks but turn faster Shield tanks need to be faster but turn slower armor tanks are the real hit and run tank with the speed it has shields with the 3 60% or 2 with a booster and turning speed is more of a stand and fight tank.
All I can say to you bad furry, enjoy it while it lasts. Just because YOU can't see anything wrong with tanks, doesn't mean problems don't exist. You simply won't acknowledge them.
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
530
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 12:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:2 mid 2 low low CPU low PG and to top it off the low cpu and pg means you cant run small guns on the thing with out cutting back on rep or def rely guys crying over MLT tanks is Lame EPIC LAME !!!!! This coming from the tanker that's a big fan of redline railing. Which I suggest you stick with, rolling with the big boys isn't your thing And zomg, you run guns on your tank from the redline. EPIC FAIL LOL omg you have braindamage or something ?? or did my tank not just roll over your teams tanks in 3 PC battles in a row ! then only way you stop us is to call A E and they o most lost with 2 Mcc ticks leth ! LOL heres the sad thing it was Your tank that camped the redline in all 3 games but yeah bro dont talk what you cant back up! most of the time i died i was on your side of the map with your guys in the redline ... BTW Stop calling your tanks out in the open infront of my tank/team unless your trying to give us free kills/points! and if thats the case just hand over all you Clay to us you dont look like you need it !
Hah, man you are such a scrub.
I send you GG back just to not be a ****, but after seeing your "post" here, I know I can safely ignore those messages for now. Perhaps you have forgotten the games I outright owned your tank. Or how about anytime you want to roll out of your redline, I'm always there to beat you down.
I found it very much funny, that when I ran into your redline, you actually backed up, WAY up. I was like seriously, you are going to hide back there. But it's ok man, I did that at one time. Back when I was learning to tank, I redlined sniped. Then I got good. Waiting on some more tank changes, so it can go back to being a skilled class, and not this easy I WIN button it has become.
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
530
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 14:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote: looks like it is braindamage ! LOL whats even more funnier about your post is you guys spam tanks and call them in the open on top of a hill in the open driving in mass is the only way you had a remote chance in hell of breaking out of your red line and saving your home point ! hell id talk to your tank FC he even said working with you and the other tankers that are Better then YOU ! is like training cats to swim ! Maybe its why you guys are lossing your PC,s you got ONE that,s ONE good Tanker and his your FC for tanks and that all
from Big Burns "it,s bad when your tank can get that far . I,m teaching them though . we,ll see if they LISTEN to my Advice."
I can GO ON WITH THE MAIL CHAT I HAD WITH HIM !!! but i got rep for burns as a WoT FC i know how hard it can be working with want to be tankers and yes if i i was your teams FC for tanks id keep you for pub battles at best !
but if you need to know why you got some kills on me its because as a FC im only sending in a tank to scout the other teams redline or for other tanks in the citys that is the most cheapish tank MINE ! and seeing how i am the FC for tanks ya ill call what i have eyes on for my Other tanks to kill if i cant not.. saving there tanks so the team still has tanks on the map all the time holding down points and killing other tanks and drop suits !
but here,s the funny thing if you add up all them tanks YOU and your team mates have jumped out off that we have blown up! ALOT more tanks then all you guys put together on avg are tankers have a 3 tank kills to a loss ! your guys is a 1 for 1 unless its Big burns then his is a 3 for 1 .
Ah yes, Big Burns, and no, he WAS NOT A TANK FC. He was a tanker, and yeah a good one at that. He had idea's on how to work that map, as we all do. And yr a "Tank FC", good to know. (though I can hardly believe it with such poor grammar and communication skills)
Burns, while a good tanker, wasn't big on the big picture nor taking orders he didn't agree with. He had one tactic and only one tactic that he expected everyone to do. I never once saw any versatility to it, and when things didn't pan out like he "expected" them to, he had nothing to fall back on, and blamed it on us. That's all I got to say on Burns.
But see furry, every dog has his days, and you had yours. I assure you, it is the last time that will ever happen. It's good to see that you have such a large ego. Learning a bit about your intelligence (or lack of), and your place on the battlefield will be of use I assure you. And GG on using the redline as protection, while saying it's because you are FC and need to see the whole battlefield. That would make sense, you know, if you had clear vis of the battlefield from the ground spawn on that map, but it's blocked rather well. So I take it as bullshit, lol.
Enjoy your "win" while it lasts, same with tanks you truly believe aren't OP. It tells me that you REALLY don't understand tanking. But hey, I'll give you this, you guys did win. **** happens, and I won't tell you what happened that night, but I can assure you it won't happen again.
Gl next time, you will NEED it.
Nuff Said
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