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trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
148
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Posted - 2014.01.30 16:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
And one last time, with GUSTO
Step 1. Increase the strength AND duration of STD hardners by 3%, ADV hardners by 5% & PRO hardners by 10%
Step 2. Stop hardner stacking.
Step 3. Make hardners have drawback effects. Armor hardners, when activated, should slow your movement speed by 80%. Shield hardners should cancel all shield regeneration until the hardner goes off.
Step 4. Slight damage buff to light AV and 'nades (around 10% for light AV, around 5% for AV grenades) to compensate for repair stacking fits (to ensure AV weapons are capable of keeping up with the rep cycle)
Results:
Tanks actually have waves of opportunity
Militia hardners are trash compared to good hardners
Hardners used intelligently are great but used poorly are worthless (hardner management becomes a "thing")
There are finally huge differences between shield and armor tanking besides just the fittings. Armor becomes "stand and deliver", shields become "hit and run".
4 changes, problem solved, crisis concluded. Tanks will be at around Chromosome levels of balance (Chromosome is considered "the golden age" of tank balance) with current Uprising price tags.
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
150
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Posted - 2014.01.30 16:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lucifalic wrote:I would add. While hardeners are active and in cooldown there is absolutely NO repairing of armor or shields (depending on which hardener was used). This would make tanks have to retreat for longer not drive around a building and come back at full strength. And absolutely no recalling when hardeners are in cooldown
I cannot agree to that, that's over doing it. I want tanks to be a force to be reckoned with, not an easy target. If they are fitted to be fast reppers, then let them fast rep. As long as they cannot out rep proto AV without finding cover, I'm fine with them repping up fast and coming back to the fight.
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
150
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Posted - 2014.01.30 16:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:Why would an active hardner slow your tank? How would you escape AV? -1
Stop hardener stacking? If you can fit it, you should be able to run it. Stop or severely penalize dual stacking armor&shield. +.5
Hardener drawback? How about its only good for ~1 min? then has a recharge. Working as intended. -1
Slight buff to AV nades +1, to compensate for dual hardeners.....(didn't you just say no dual hardeners?) -1
AV should take teamwork. Tanks are balanced in PC, pubs, who the **** cares. Git gud. Tanks are still ez mode with 1 forge gunner, or 2 swarm launchers.
You don't have to kill the tank, you just have to render it ineffective. The more time a tank spends recharging hardeners and retreating, the less time it spends wiping troops.
AV needs to stop thinking like they possess OHK weapons, and start to realize that you simply have area denial AV. (much like what the mass driver and laser rifle do to infantry currently)
I am in favor of turning swarms into a sidearm in their current form though.
PS - I have zero SP invested into tanks, I have alts who **** around with tanks, only so I understand the mechanics behind the role. I do have a PC forge gunner and IMO tanks are very close to balanced.
To your first remark: That's what boosters are for. Either activate it to compensate for your hardner's speed reduction, or use it to get the hell outta dodge once the hardner goes down.
To your "fitting" remark: If this were the case, then why can't tanks fit multiple nitro boosters? Oh... right.. for game balance....
To your "working as intended" remark: Except that we have hardner stacking, meaning the cooldown of one mod means nothing because another is activated immediately. Not working as intended, since "waves of opportunity and vulnerability" doesn't exist.
To your "AV deterrent" remark: AV is not a deterrent role as long as AV recieves no WP or ISK for partial damage. There is currently no incentive whatsoever to specc into light AV. You loose 12 suits trying to take out 2 tanks because your anti-infantry abilities are hampered by loosing your light weapon slot to an AV weapon, and your squad can't protect you properly from the infantry because the tank is hampering them. Light AV is still AV, and as such should be only slightly less effective than heavy AV. When used in conjunction with AV grenades, it should be just as effective if not moreso.
To your "render tanks ineffective" remark: And who the **** do you think finds it fun to spend millions of SP and ISK on AV just to "render a tank ineffective"?
To your "area denial" remark: MD's and lasers are better at what they do than light AV is at what it does. Also, no. If it WERE supposed to be area denial, it would have been area denial FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS. And it hasn't been.
To your last remark: They don't need to be sidearms, they need to work.
To your whole post: Your rating system means nothing to me, save your time and drop it. I don't even know who the **** you are, so why the **** would I care how well you rate my individual changes?
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
150
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Posted - 2014.01.30 17:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:80% speed reduction? Your even more stupid than CCP.
80% reduction to speed with bonuses to strength and duration across all tiers, plus since this is for armor tanks your highs are clear for a nitro boost to make up for the speed drop or to use as soon as the hardner goes down.
Of course, I explained all of this in already. Your lack of reading comprehension is not my fault.
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
150
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Posted - 2014.01.30 17:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:No repair lol, no speed lol with hardeners either
That makes them way way too easy to kill, 2 shots from my breach FG kills all and since no regen that hardener is useless and they cant move either
Infantry and bad ideas go hand in hand or rarther foot in mouth
Since you are you, you'd be running a proto one. It would have a 10% longer duration than the current ones and also have 10% higher damage resistance. Meaning you run in while nearly invincible, hit the enemy, then get gone if you see they are breaking through your shields or when your timer is almost up so you can repp in safety for the next run. You know, the whole "waves of opportunity and vulnerability" that CCP was striving for.
As for the no speed, read my previous responses.
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
150
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 17:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:I like how it is with hardeners now though, the new tankers have a chance against the experienced tankers, if anything, just increase the cooldown of MLT Hardeners, back before 1.7, it came down to which tanker had the better gear. At least newb HAVs stand a chance now.
These changes would in no way hamper the creation of militia tank fits that can take out high tiered tanks. If anything, it gives militia tanks a better chance if they can sneak up on it while it's hardners are down (currently they are almost NEVER down). Increasing the cooldown of militia hardners accomplishes nothing but making new tankers have a harder time, thus giving fully specced tankers an even bigger win button.
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
150
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Posted - 2014.01.30 17:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:trollface dot jpg wrote:Drapedup Drippedout wrote:Why would an active hardner slow your tank? How would you escape AV? -1
Stop hardener stacking? If you can fit it, you should be able to run it. Stop or severely penalize dual stacking armor&shield. +.5
Hardener drawback? How about its only good for ~1 min? then has a recharge. Working as intended. -1
Slight buff to AV nades +1, to compensate for dual hardeners.....(didn't you just say no dual hardeners?) -1
AV should take teamwork. Tanks are balanced in PC, pubs, who the **** cares. Git gud. Tanks are still ez mode with 1 forge gunner, or 2 swarm launchers.
You don't have to kill the tank, you just have to render it ineffective. The more time a tank spends recharging hardeners and retreating, the less time it spends wiping troops.
AV needs to stop thinking like they possess OHK weapons, and start to realize that you simply have area denial AV. (much like what the mass driver and laser rifle do to infantry currently)
I am in favor of turning swarms into a sidearm in their current form though.
PS - I have zero SP invested into tanks, I have alts who **** around with tanks, only so I understand the mechanics behind the role. I do have a PC forge gunner and IMO tanks are very close to balanced. To your first remark: That's what boosters are for. Either activate it to compensate for your hardner's speed reduction, or use it to get the hell outta dodge once the hardner goes down. To your "fitting" remark: If this were the case, then why can't tanks fit multiple nitro boosters? Oh... right.. for game balance.... To your "working as intended" remark: Except that we have hardner stacking, meaning the cooldown of one mod means nothing because another is activated immediately. Not working as intended, since "waves of opportunity and vulnerability" doesn't exist. To your "AV deterrent" remark: AV is not a deterrent role as long as AV recieves no WP or ISK for partial damage. There is currently no incentive whatsoever to specc into light AV. You loose 12 suits trying to take out 2 tanks because your anti-infantry abilities are hampered by loosing your light weapon slot to an AV weapon, and your squad can't protect you properly from the infantry because the tank is hampering them. Light AV is still AV, and as such should be only slightly less effective than heavy AV. When used in conjunction with AV grenades, it should be just as effective if not moreso. To your "render tanks ineffective" remark: And who the **** do you think finds it fun to spend millions of SP and ISK on AV just to "render a tank ineffective"? To your "area denial" remark: MD's and lasers are better at what they do than light AV is at what it does. Also, no. If it WERE supposed to be area denial, it would have been area denial FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS. And it hasn't been. To your last remark: They don't need to be sidearms, they need to work. To your whole post: Your rating system means nothing to me, save your time and drop it. I don't even know who the **** you are, so why the **** would I care how well you rate my individual changes? Because you are a whiney ****-ant scrublet who would rather ***** about how things used to be than actually try to adapt and git gud. They re-worked the ENTIRE vehicle skill tree, and as such the entire role of vehicles. You are clinging to an old ideal of what they 'used' to be, which is probably why you get ******* face-rolled every time.
Awww.... did I offend the poor tank scrub? Go stuff yourself. "Git gud"? What a cop out, why don't you "git gud" instead of relying on OP mechanics? Hmm? What's that? Oh, you need your FOTM safety blanket to keep you nice and warm and invulnerable to 99% of the weapons in the game and safe from all of the mean old infantry guys who touched you wrong?
Oh, ok. I understand.
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
150
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Posted - 2014.01.30 17:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:trollface dot jpg wrote:And one last time, with GUSTO Step 1. Increase the strength AND duration of STD hardners by 3%, ADV hardners by 5% & PRO hardners by 10% Step 2. Stop hardner stacking. Step 3. Make hardners have drawback effects. Armor hardners, when activated, should slow your movement speed by 80%. Shield hardners should cancel all shield regeneration until the hardner goes off. Step 4. Slight damage buff to light AV and 'nades (around 10% for light AV, around 5% for AV grenades) to compensate for repair stacking fits (to ensure AV weapons are capable of keeping up with the rep cycle) Results: Tanks actually have waves of opportunity Militia hardners are trash compared to good hardners Hardners used intelligently are great but used poorly are worthless (hardner management becomes a "thing") There are finally huge differences between shield and armor tanking besides just the fittings. Armor becomes "stand and deliver", shields become "hit and run". 4 changes, problem solved, crisis concluded. Tanks will be at around Chromosome levels of balance (Chromosome is considered "the golden age" of tank balance) with current Uprising price tags. 1-- really wouldn't do much of anything 2-- there are situations where the only way to survive is to double stack hardeners, such as against any competent team. If you use only one hardener and run into one you will be blown up in under 8 seconds. Conversely a horribly disorganized team has trouble vs a single hardener, and can't do anything vs a double hardener. 3-- this would literally make tanks useless- a swarm of cheap AV would catch up to the tank in no time once the hardener went up and would literally be a death sentence, not a defense of any kind. Imagine what would happen if this penalty was for an infantry module. You use a hardener, they just wait around the corner cause you can't catch up, someone runs all the way around the building and back up behind you, then shoots you in the head cause you can't turn to face them in time once the hardener wears off. 4-- because of the "Sitting Duck" mechanic higher damage would just be faster destruction RESULT: Useless tanks that can be easily tagged, flagged, and discarded regardless of driver skill or ability. AKA---- REDLINE RAILS ONLY
Went over ALL of this already, LTR.
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
151
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Posted - 2014.01.30 17:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:trollface dot jpg wrote:
Went over ALL of this already, LTR.
You really should learn to read the comment before mindlessly posting. I have highlighted a key point now so that even the nearly blind can find it in my prior post. You know... the only point you removed from your quote?...
I did read the comment, and every single point you made was either fully explained in the OP or referred to in another post. Also, I removed nothing. You may have edited it after I quoted you, but I removed nothing. Nice try though. Now let me spell it out, I'm about to have to sign off and I want to put this to bed before I go. I'll also respond to your edited-in part as well. In fact, I'll do that first:
Quote:as a response to the absolutely DAFT comment about the engine boosters, all they do is increase acceleration, not top speed.
I was unclear in the Op as I was hurriedly jotting it down (at work atm). As you well know, acceleration speed is a huge thing for tanks. If you cut it by 80%, the tank now has to be careful which paths it takes and which areas it decides to set up shop since it cannot take off like a bullet at the first sign of trouble. To be crystal clear on the issue, I was referring to acceleration speed cut, not a top speed cut. I just said "movement" speed because my mind was racing trying to get it down so I could get back to work. I will go back and fix the OP before I log off.
1 & 3 answered here:
trollface dot jpg wrote:
Since you are you, you'd be running a proto one. It would have a 10% longer duration than the current ones and also have 10% higher damage resistance. Meaning you run in while nearly invincible, hit the enemy, then get gone if you see they are breaking through your shields or when your timer is almost up so you can repp in safety for the next run. You know, the whole "waves of opportunity and vulnerability" that CCP was striving for.
4 is here:
trollface dot jpg wrote: Light AV is still AV, and as such should be only slightly less effective than heavy AV. When used in conjunction with AV grenades, it should be just as effective if not moreso.
^since this is not an EXACT response, let me be more clear. Light AV is pointless if it is not effective at killing tanks. Coupled with the increased duration and strength of hardners, this should be fine. Makes tanks more vulnerable in their cooldown period, but they are still less vulnerable during their hardened period than they are now and their hardned period lasts longer.
2 is answered elsewhere, but I can't quote any more this post, so I'll just re-answer it specifically tailored to how you phrased it: There are situations that tanks SHOULD NOT SURVIVE. Just like there are situations that everything else isn't supposed to survive, tanks are supposed to be the same. Just because you WANT your tank to live through everything doesn't mean it should.
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
151
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Posted - 2014.01.30 17:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:trollface dot jpg wrote:
Went over ALL of this already, LTR.
You really should learn to read the comment before mindlessly posting. Its just a crybaby posting about why he gets his **** pushed in by better players. Nothing more to see here folks...move along
Are you still here? Who are you and why are you stalking me? I swear, if I catch you in my dumpster, I'm calling the cops.
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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