DUST Search - Rail Rifle - what it should be

KGB Sleep wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

Dust 514, which is set in New Eden, the same universe as Eve, therefore it should follow New Eden rules, just as Eve does.

They're in the same universe but unfortunately different genres.

Besides, in the case of rail tech your desired effects are already represented in the Sniper rifle and Forge gun. The Devs did an excellent job in creating a frontline battle rifle that fits the tech yet is effective in an FPS. You can't possible think that they didn't consider the things you are suggesting when they spent months on the new weapons.

This is what they deemed best and it has plenty of drawbacks like maintaining fire at small targets in long range or slow RoF in a low TTK environment. To slow anything down further would also ruin the rifle's long range performance and allow people to get away too easily.

The new weapons are both perfect imo and a lot of other weapons are still UP. What you are going to accomplish with nerf / corrections threads are another rifle to join the broken heap of stuff people "fixed" that no one wants to use like the Flaylock, the Laser (making a comeback i know), the TAC, the Gallente Breach, and the AR according to some players.

I don't understand why you would want it to charge each shot after it is already activated. It is sort of doing that already with the pause between rounds and the weapon basically powers down when you release the trigger prompting another charge up.


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Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 534	Posted - 2014.01.29 05:27:00 - [1] - Quote IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 539	Posted - 2014.01.29 21:28:00 - [2] - Quote Here is my logic. As range decreases, DPS should increase. The rail rifle should be able to hit you for full damage the farthest out, but it pays for it if your enemy gets in close. The plasma rifle should have the highest DPS, but pays for it by having the lowest optimal/effective range. This provides the check and balances between the rifles themselves. The rail rifle isn't Godmode because it is outdpsed by the plasma rifle, and the plasma rifle isn't Godmode because it is outranged by the rail rifle. The other two rifles should fall somewhere in the middle.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 540	Posted - 2014.01.29 22:46:00 - [3] - Quote Overheat is unnecessary if we lower the DPS through ROF. It should be thehighest damage per shot of all the rifles, as it is now, but shoot very slow (relatively) which in this case it does not. Charging between each shot keeps it as a breach weapon, slows firing rate, which can be improved with skills if CCP so desires, and let's it dominate at range, but hinders it in CQC, where other rifles can spit out more raw DPS, albeit from a shorter range.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 540	Posted - 2014.01.29 22:58:00 - [4] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: technically the scr rifle has the highest damage per shot. still you have a good point. Use the same firing mechanics as the small rail turret, the RR should have a the same firing mechanice as all other rail tech in the game albeit faster. The RR shouldn't be useless close range. But, it shouldn't be on par with a GAR or CR. galente AR and CR are balanced verse each other because although the CR does more potential damage it is a burst fire weapon with an over-sampling cap (no turbo controlers for minmatar ...lol). the GAR has almost no recoil and the CR has the highest recoil among all the assault rilfes. therefore GAR = CR. balanced. The RR needs to be balanced against the Scr for longer range combat. in this way in CQC the flow should be: GAR = CR > RR = Scr and at long range: Scr = RR > GAR = CR Again, neither the Scr rifle nor the RR need be utterly useless at close range but they should NEVER be more effective than a GAR or CR. In terms of raw DPS, the order should be PR>CR>SCR>RR In terms of range, it should be RR>SCR>CR>PR As you said, the RR shouldn't be useless, but neither should it be the best. If a PR gunner can outmaneuver a RR and get in the PR optimal range, the PR should have the definite advantage.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 546	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:18:00 - [5] - Quote Soldiersaint wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. Caldari weapons are high in range AND damage. learn the lore. HIGH in damage, LOW in DPS. Learn the lore.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 547	Posted - 2014.01.30 04:55:00 - [6] - Quote I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 550	Posted - 2014.01.30 07:58:00 - [7] - Quote m twiggz wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: IT needs to be a high alpha, low dps weapon. Low ROF, high damage per shot, long range. So give it a 10 point per shot increase. and make it charge between each shot. Adjust charge time accordingly to make the dps lower than all the other rifles. So you want the Rail Rifle to be a longer range less viable Scrambler Rifle? Exactly. You should deal high damage per round. But those rounds shoot relatively slowly. Since it's Caldari tech, they use their high mobility and shields to keep out of range of enemy weapons while dealing hard hitting rounds of their own. The weakness being the long gap between shots (relative to the other rifles) In this way, the Rail Rifle excels at ranged combat, but isn't ideal for up close and personal, where the CR/PR should shine. The CR/PR pay for their higher dps by having far less range, in the PR's case having half the range. This makes RR users keep their enemy inside the RR optimal but outside PR optimal, and PR users close the distance where their PR can outDPS the RR. Thus the different styles of gameplay.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 550	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:26:00 - [8] - Quote N7 Operative Anthony wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I use the rail rifle, and I'm wanting these changes. It's how rails in Eve perform, so the rail rifle should emulate this. EVE , not dust 514. Dust 514, which is set in New Eden, the same universe as Eve, therefore it should follow New Eden rules, just as Eve does.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 553	Posted - 2014.01.30 08:54:00 - [9] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: Lulz, caldari have been the least mobile sobs in history. You misspelled Amarr.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 556	Posted - 2014.01.30 16:57:00 - [10] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: This is a good point. The only reason why I said the CR should have the highest dps (or highest potential) is because it is a burst fire weapon with tons of recoil. the PR has virtually no Recoil and is fully automatic. the PR actually has less damage fall off than the CR as well, so making it more powerful than the combat will effectively nerf the CR. lol When you think about it just about everything minmatar in this game has been nerfed either directly or indirectly. the dropsuits, the weapons. Once the caldari pistol and SMG come out the minmatar SMG will be indreictly nerfed... the flaylock was already nerfed. If the PR becomes better than the CR then the WHOLE minmatar race will be effectively nerfed, and I will be asking for a complete respec into caldari who seem to get consistent buffs....lol Good point. The PR should have the highest raw DPS, but dispersion and recoil should prevent application outside of the intended range. I think dispersion should be set, and aiming should only decrease recoil, not dispersion and recoil. This let's the PR have high DPS, but it cannot ensure all of that DPS will hit unless it get's right up on the enemy, which is where it needs to be. CR should have about the same optimal as the PR, but much larger falloff, in order to apply its DPS from farther out than the PR. This is like autocannons in Eve, which have low optimals but very long falloff ranges, making a consistent dps increase as targets get closer and farther. Especially considering how much raw DPS it can spit out, this won't really hurt it too much, and dps can be adjusted as well if t does. I'm not concerned with numbers so much as the basic mechanics of the weapon.

Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 556	Posted - 2014.01.30 17:13:00 - [11] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Dust 514, which is set in New Eden, the same universe as Eve, therefore it should follow New Eden rules, just as Eve does. They're in the same universe but unfortunately different genres. Besides, in the case of rail tech your desired effects are already represented in the Sniper rifle and Forge gun. The Devs did an excellent job in creating a frontline battle rifle that fits the tech yet is effective in an FPS. You can't possible think that they didn't consider the things you are suggesting when they spent months on the new weapons. This is what they deemed best and it has plenty of drawbacks like maintaining fire at small targets in long range or slow RoF in a low TTK environment. To slow anything down further would also ruin the rifle's long range performance and allow people to get away too easily. The new weapons are both perfect imo and a lot of other weapons are still UP. What you are going to accomplish with nerf / corrections threads are another rifle to join the broken heap of stuff people "fixed" that no one wants to use like the Flaylock, the Laser (making a comeback i know), the TAC, the Gallente Breach, and the AR according to some players. I don't understand why you would want it to charge each shot after it is already activated. It is sort of doing that already with the pause between rounds and the weapon basically powers down when you release the trigger prompting another charge up. In essence, you would hold down the trigger, and it would charge each shot automatically. The reason for the lower DPS is because of it's range. If you have all the rifles putting out the same DPS, and one has a longer range, people will naturally gravitate to the one with longer range. The reason targets wont get away is the high damage per individual shot. Let's say you have a 2 second window to hit a target it moves into cover. For the sake of this discussion, let's assume we are within optimal range for the rifle in question. So you begin firing, and you move a little off target, and one round misses. For the PR, this isn't a big deal. it's spitting out rounds like no other, and simply moves back on target, not worrying about missing that small amount of damage from the missed round, because of how many of those rounds it can spit out to compensate. The RR (with my suggested changes) is in the same situation. begins firing, misses a round. That's a lot of potential applied DPS missed, because the RR is about alpha damage, not about high rates of fire, so even if he adjusts his aim back on target, he has lost twice the amount of damage he could have applied that the PR user could have. The PR only lost 37.4 damage. The RR user lost ~87 damage. Plus, the PR should be able to send more DPS down range. In this scenario, 2 seconds should be more than enough to ensure the target is dead. The RR would need every round to hit in order to ensure a kill within 2 seconds. That's what the RR gives up for its longer optimal range. Here's another example. I would have the RR kill someone in 4-5 shots, whereas the PR would take 10-12 shots to kill someone. But, the PR should spit out 10-12 shots faster than the RR can spit out 4-5. Thus, the PR is better at killing than the RR, but only if the PR can get within range. Numbers are to illustrate a point. I really don't want someone to die in 10-12 PR shots.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 557	Posted - 2014.01.31 01:19:00 - [12] - Quote Not a tactical variant. you hold down R1 and it charges up for you, as opposed you charging once and then firing til you let go. A tactical variant would charge, shoot, then require you to release R1 and press it again in order to charge the next shot. The breach style would simply charge - fire - charge - fire until you released the trigger.