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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2304
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Posted - 2014.01.28 15:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
So tanks are now alot more useful, even militia is useful and that is a good thing but unlike with infantry militia mods can be roughly the same as complex
Take shield hardeners - 60% resistance, at militia level it is 60% except with a longer cooldown but same activation time
So the problem can be if militia is as good as complex then why bother skilling up?
So we have to change the mods a little bit, this would be to encourage players to actually skill up some what but also would seperate the main vehicle pilots from the FOTM
Now only 3 things change when you move from MLT->Basic->Enhanced->Complex which are the fitting requirements, cooldown time and the SP needed
Shield Hardeners - 60% across the board, as you go up shorter cooldowns and higher fitting requirements but the main stat of resistance stays the same as does the activation time
MLT - 40% Resistance
Basic - 40% Resistance
Enhanced - 50% Resistance
Complex - 60% Resistance
Damage mods - 30% across the board, as you go up shorter cooldowns and higher fitting requirements but the main stat of resistance stays the same as does the activation time
MLT - 10% Damage or 20%
Basic - 10% Damage or 20%
Enhanced - 20% Damage or 25%
Complex - 30% Damage
Rails hit out a lof of damage anyways, same with missiles provided they hit, i do prefer the 10%/20%30% mainly because 10% of 2k damage output is 200 and hit an unhardenered tank and generally in 2-3 shots its dead but also a 10% increase in damage maybe enough to get a few ppl skilled up
Armor Hardeners - 40% across the board, as you go up shorter cooldowns and higher fitting requirements but the main stat of resistance stays the same as does the activation time
MLT - 20% Resistance
Basic - 20% Resistance
Enhanced - 30% Resistance
Complex - 40% Resistance
The overdrives are already like this, they offer a diff % boost at all levels but also have longer activation times aswell as shorter cooldowns and higher fitting requirements, i wouldnt add a activation time increase because there is a 5% per level skill already but also it may make the gap between basic to complex too great which means basic could never compete
Next problem with changing mods is in regard to DS and LAVs, DS is a medium vehicle yet its choice is mainly large or small mods plus any changes to any of the mods we have makes the DS/LAV weaker as a consequence, if we had medium mods for DS maybe that would help a bit more or possible reduce requirements on dmg/resistance mods so that each vehicle can fit them
Tiercide is also another problem, if we dont get adv/proto hulls then some vehicles will need a PG/CPU buff unless the mods are lowered because currently the Maddy is short on CPU by quite a bit and generally even on a basic proto suit i can nearly put on all complex mods and be fine but stuff like the DS means you cant put much on and are really limited
As for Milita tanks maybe they could remove 1 slot from its secondary slot
Sica Now - 2H/2L -> 2H/1L
Soma Now - 2H/2L ->1H/2L
Turrets
All fine, rail king of long range, blaster king of short, missile king of medium, but mostly its down to the pilot on how they use each turret
Maps are small and playercount wont stay 16v16 forever so blame CCP since we are supposed to have 5km by 5km maps anyways and 600m rail range wont cover all the map
Prices
My top of the range gunlogi costs 500k, my milita awesome loltank is 70k or 130k if i use a maddy because i can, even if i use a better maddy fit its generally around the 200k mark, all including mods
ADS cost about 500k too but are generally worse than my tank
I like cheap tanks, it means i can field more and buy more
Problem is infantry crying about prices, 150k AV fit dies to a 70k tank they cry about prices, pre 1.7 tanks cost 2.2mil and died to a 50k AV fit infantry said it was balanced - love double standards
Either way i like this build, maybe a few tweeks here and there but generally i find it to be more fun and balanced and if nothing changes then so be it
Intelligence is OP
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The Attorney General
1896
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Posted - 2014.01.28 15:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
I actually prefer the equal strength modules. It prevents high SP tankers from having an automatic win when they encounter other tanks.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2305
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Posted - 2014.01.28 15:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:I actually prefer the equal strength modules. It prevents high SP tankers from having an automatic win when they encounter other tanks.
Its more or less about being an incentive for future vehicle pilots and maybe to put off FOTM users
Intelligence is OP
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The Attorney General
1896
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Posted - 2014.01.28 15:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
There is no doubt though that my investment of SP has produced notable results with regards to tank v tank functionality.
I have a fitting reduction to shield modules, armor modules, damage mods, and turrets. I also have better active durations and shorter cooldowns.
The incentive is thee for people who are serious about tanking, and for everyone else, they can just run MLT tanks and get popped mercilessly.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2306
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Posted - 2014.01.28 15:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:There is no doubt though that my investment of SP has produced notable results with regards to tank v tank functionality.
I have a fitting reduction to shield modules, armor modules, damage mods, and turrets. I also have better active durations and shorter cooldowns.
The incentive is thee for people who are serious about tanking, and for everyone else, they can just run MLT tanks and get popped mercilessly.
Maybe
MLT spam doesnt bother me, gives me something to shoot at anyways
Just throwing out an idea or 2 since im bored
Intelligence is OP
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Scout Registry
Nos Nothi
1091
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Posted - 2014.01.28 15:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
:: sees tank thread ::
:: notes author ::
:: walks away laughing ::
Shouldn't you be out farming infantry with Spkr? |
Lorhak Gannarsein
1379
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Posted - 2014.01.28 15:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
The issue seems to be more that it's as difficult for infantry AV to destroy an MLT fit tank as it is a Cx fit tank (for a short period of time, at least).
The fact that a Sica has near as high resistance and potential EHP as a high quality Gunnlogi seems like something of a problem.
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2306
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 15:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Scout Registry wrote::: sees tank thread ::
:: notes author ::
:: walks away laughing ::
Shouldn't you be out farming infantry with Spkr?
If you are dumb enough to stand there to be farmed then sure il farm ya
Intelligence is OP
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2306
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 15:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:The issue seems to be more that it's as difficult for infantry AV to destroy an MLT fit tank as it is a Cx fit tank (for a short period of time, at least).
The fact that a Sica has near as high resistance and potential EHP as a high quality Gunnlogi seems like something of a problem.
For me it doesnt bother me as much, sometimes a sneaky sica may railgun me to death before i can see it or whatever but it seems to be a problem more for infantry since we are already skilled up tanks so generally we can nail it to a wall 1st and more targets are good for business
Intelligence is OP
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1380
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Posted - 2014.01.28 15:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yeah, sorry, should have clarified: I've tried forging this build, and while it's still not too hard IMO, it's a bit ridiculous that it's equally hard to forge a Sica versus a Gunnlogi, since the fittings are basically the same and all revolve around hardeners.
The problem isn't the forge gun here, but the MLT tanks giving a dramatically more effective performance than pre-1.7.
My rail takes them just fine. Even my silly MLT blaster fit can do for them, given time. I just mean V-AV balance.
I'm strongly of the opinion that the balance between MLT HAVs and AV is skewed in favour of the HAVs.
I'm quite happy with STD HAVs' performance, however, although I feel like swarms were over-nerfed by some small amount.
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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Billi Gene
449
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Posted - 2014.01.28 15:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
At just over 6mil into the vehicle trees and my alt is finally seeing some gains.
Truely the fitting bonuses make a hell of a difference, taking on 'most' tanks is a foregone conclusion as long as i keep my head. Damage mod stacked Sica's are still a problem, but then that is the whole glass cannon mantra- a triple stacked gunnlogi would be horrific with the right turret....
The current Fotm tank game, will reach its peak inna few weeks tops, when those that are skilling into AV and vehicles in general reach a tipping point vs those that are running cheap unskilled fits for lol's.
it will become increasingly hard for the Fotm crowd to field tanks with impunity, and the cheap easy kills will dry up. Then we can see how healthy the Tank vs AV balance really is.
Also.. kinda sad about the current pricing models :P
my wtf i just got 1shot ADS's hull costs more than a fully fit full Adv HAV.
Here's hoping its just CCP making sure they get the data they need ... :P
Pedant, Ape, Troll.
My Beard makes Alpha's sook :P
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1702
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 11:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Scout Registry wrote::: sees tank thread ::
:: notes author ::
:: walks away laughing ::
Shouldn't you be out farming infantry with Spkr?
Infantry realizes tankers use teamwork, tries to make a joke of it.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2319
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Posted - 2014.01.29 12:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Yeah, sorry, should have clarified: I've tried forging this build, and while it's still not too hard IMO, it's a bit ridiculous that it's equally hard to forge a Sica versus a Gunnlogi, since the fittings are basically the same and all revolve around hardeners.
The problem isn't the forge gun here, but the MLT tanks giving a dramatically more effective performance than pre-1.7.
My rail takes them just fine. Even my silly MLT blaster fit can do for them, given time. I just mean V-AV balance.
I'm strongly of the opinion that the balance between MLT HAVs and AV is skewed in favour of the HAVs.
I'm quite happy with STD HAVs' performance, however, although I feel like swarms were over-nerfed by some small amount.
But if milita mods are reduced in effectivness and even the slot layout slightly changed would that be enough for the general idiot to kill them?
It may help but a cure for stupidity it isnt
Intelligence is OP
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Scout Registry
Nos Nothi
1110
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Posted - 2014.01.29 15:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Scout Registry wrote::: sees tank thread ::
:: notes author ::
:: walks away laughing ::
Shouldn't you be out farming infantry with Spkr? Infantry realizes tankers use teamwork, tries to make a joke of it.
Taki to Spkr: Let's spam our tanks together, always.
Spkr to Taki: You're my BFF, Taki. I'll always spam with you.
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
924
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Posted - 2014.01.29 15:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Scout Registry wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Scout Registry wrote::: sees tank thread ::
:: notes author ::
:: walks away laughing ::
Shouldn't you be out farming infantry with Spkr? Infantry realizes tankers use teamwork, tries to make a joke of it. Taki to Spkr: Let's spam our tanks together, always.Spkr to Taki: You're my BFF, Taki. I'll always spam with you. (But i wont come out of the Redline and call myself a Great tanker
Fixed |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
924
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Posted - 2014.01.29 15:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
So...
60% for Complex Shield Hardener
30 % For Complex Damage Mods
40% For complex Armor Hardener
What would you suggest a Proto AV guy to use against those stats ?! FG ?! lol
Turrets: Rails Are fine ?! They do more CQC these days if you haven't noticed (Except for spkr who doesn't leave the redline)
Missiles scare the **** out of any tanker
Price: It's fine ?! I don't mind paying the 150k for the suit if it actually did anything...
Balancing attempt. Please try again |
The Attorney General
1909
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Posted - 2014.01.29 15:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:So...
60% for Complex Shield Hardener
30 % For Complex Damage Mods
40% For complex Armor Hardener
What would you suggest a Proto AV guy to use against those stats ?! FG ?! lol
Turrets: Rails Are fine ?! They do more CQC these days if you haven't noticed (Except for spkr who doesn't leave the redline)
Missiles scare the **** out of any tanker
Price: It's fine ?! I don't mind paying the 150k for the suit if it actually did anything...
Balancing attempt. Please try again
Missiles don't scare most tankers, because a double hardened gunloggi can take a dual damage modded salvo. The only way to counter that is to run dual hardeners in order to survive long enough to reload. In that time you have to mitigate incoming fire as much as possible with mobility.
I don't think rails are fine, but I am still not sure what needs to be changed. I think the first step would be a magazine cut to 5 and a RoF nerf. See how that plays out, then consider damage mods or the damage of the turret itself.
FG needs its charge times back to 1.6 levels in order to be more capable against hardened vehicles, but also to be able kill tanks almost immediately after those hardeners go down.
Cut a few hundred shields off of Madrugars, but give them slightly better turning at low speeds.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1107
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Posted - 2014.01.29 16:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:I actually prefer the equal strength modules. It prevents high SP tankers from having an automatic win when they encounter other tanks.
Then why skill tanks and since when should mil mods create equity? No skill options make skilled options null and void.
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
926
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Posted - 2014.01.29 16:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:NAV HIV wrote:So...
60% for Complex Shield Hardener
30 % For Complex Damage Mods
40% For complex Armor Hardener
What would you suggest a Proto AV guy to use against those stats ?! FG ?! lol
Turrets: Rails Are fine ?! They do more CQC these days if you haven't noticed (Except for spkr who doesn't leave the redline)
Missiles scare the **** out of any tanker
Price: It's fine ?! I don't mind paying the 150k for the suit if it actually did anything...
Balancing attempt. Please try again Missiles don't scare most tankers, because a double hardened gunloggi can take a dual damage modded salvo. The only way to counter that is to run dual hardeners in order to survive long enough to reload. In that time you have to mitigate incoming fire as much as possible with mobility. I don't think rails are fine, but I am still not sure what needs to be changed. I think the first step would be a magazine cut to 5 and a RoF nerf. See how that plays out, then consider damage mods or the damage of the turret itself. FG needs its charge times back to 1.6 levels in order to be more capable against hardened vehicles, but also to be able kill tanks almost immediately after those hardeners go down. Cut a few hundred shields off of Madrugars, but give them slightly better turning at low speeds.
Missiles vs Armor tanks are deadly...
Rails could use a reduction on ROF
FG needs tweaking
Swarms and AV nades are useless atm |
The Attorney General
1909
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Posted - 2014.01.29 16:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:
Missiles vs Armor tanks are deadly...
Rails could use a reduction on ROF
FG needs tweaking
Swarms and AV nades are useless atm
Missiles are a series of ifs.
If you catch them with their hardeners down.
If you catch them occupied with someone or something else.
If you catch them reloading
If you have fully skilled reload
or
If you get flanked
If you get pincered
If you get waylaid by an AV into early activation of your modules
If 1 missile misses
If 2 missiles miss
If the enemy has fully skilled their reload skill
You pretty much roll the dice and take your chances. When it works, oh boy does it work, and then you get the other times.....
Also, AV nades are good right now, they provide a great punch to any attack on a tank, without being a primary AV weapon themselves. Maybe lower their PG consumption by one at proto.
Swarms suck, they need either range or damage.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
932
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Posted - 2014.01.29 16:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:NAV HIV wrote:
Missiles vs Armor tanks are deadly...
Rails could use a reduction on ROF
FG needs tweaking
Swarms and AV nades are useless atm
Missiles are a series of ifs. If you catch them with their hardeners down. If you catch them occupied with someone or something else. If you catch them reloading If you have fully skilled reload or If you get flanked If you get pincered If you get waylaid by an AV into early activation of your modules If 1 missile misses If 2 missiles miss If the enemy has fully skilled their reload skill You pretty much roll the dice and take your chances. When it works, oh boy does it work, and then you get the other times..... Also, AV nades are good right now, they provide a great punch to any attack on a tank, without being a primary AV weapon themselves. Maybe lower their PG consumption by one at proto. Swarms suck, they need either range or damage.
Couldn't agree more
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2325
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Posted - 2014.01.29 16:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:So...
60% for Complex Shield Hardener
30 % For Complex Damage Mods
40% For complex Armor Hardener
What would you suggest a Proto AV guy to use against those stats ?! FG ?! lol
Turrets: Rails Are fine ?! They do more CQC these days if you haven't noticed (Except for spkr who doesn't leave the redline)
Missiles scare the **** out of any tanker
Price: It's fine ?! I don't mind paying the 150k for the suit if it actually did anything...
Balancing attempt. Please try again
Thats complex mods
Not everyone runs complex mods
DS/LAV dont have an easy time of running complex mods
My proto FG does okay
Spkr actually does leave the redline with a rail
Im happy with the price, sods law it will go up but frankly i dont want a 1mil tank which cant do **** all and if your suit is 150k and not doing anything could that be down to the person using it?
Intelligence is OP
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